Open for Business: Canadian Politics 2019

this is kind of weird to say, but i agree with ed the sock?

xpost

don't think the NCCM actually has the power to absolve Trudeau on behalf of all Muslims. And there is no way that they'd accept an apology that quickly from a Conservative (or even someone from another party) who did the same thing

how did conservative oppo research miss this, harper must be rolling in his grave

Fantastic assumption man.

The NCCM doesn't have the power to absolve Trudeau on behalf of all Muslims because no institution holds that kind of power and it ain't the point of the NCCM, so duh. That's not the point. The point is that politically-minded jerks will use the photo's offensiveness to rip into Trudeau while ignoring what the leading body of Canadian muslims has to say about it and I find it to be excruciating and hypocritical. If a consensus of Canadian muslims come up with a clear rebuke of the NCCM decision I will rescind that.

yeah, fair enough

what really gets me about that photo is how utterly unsurprising it is

If you look at that picture, there may be--may be; I don't know any details--a second issue: he's a teacher, and that may be a student he's kind of friendly with there.

I don't think that's a teenager?

Honestly, I doubt this will move the needle very much.

Yeah same.

I just wish there was more outrage for Bill 21, rather than an obvious mistake made 18 years ago.

And there is no way that they'd accept an apology that quickly from a Conservative (or even someone from another party) who did the same thing

I mean, if this is true, is it because the NCCM has some partisan loyalty to the Liberals? Or is it because Liberal policy has been better for Muslims than they think Tory policy would be?

Ya, I would think it’s been earned at little more than with, at least, the cpc.

yeah I mean it's totally just an assumption...and yeah CPC/PPC/CAQ all implicitly and explicitly condone some form of Islamophobia, so maybe JT has earned the benefit of the doubt

just tired of the monstrosity of the alternative being used to excuse Trudeau for lying about first past the post, for SNC Lavalin, for buying a pipeline, etc etc etc

This is like an alternate universe - yeah his opposition are fucking horrific on every level, but how is this acceptable? Even if you’re leaning heavily on youthful mistake (at 29?), he’s the son of an ex-PM and grew up used to public scrutiny. Come the fuck on, it’s horrendous judgement at best.

Insofar as it's impossible to conceive of an NDP (centre-left) victory at this point in time (or any other, really) because ours is a two-party system in all but name and Canadians currently appear to be more interested in letting the world know they're on the same nationalist bandwagon as everyone else (see: results of the latest provincial elections), this is the pathetic alternative we're left with.

'Fuck everything about this' is likely to be my refrain throughout.

overheard conversation between a couple of dumbasses in my office talking about the photo today, flawless logic on display: "how can that be racist - aladdin's not even real! who is it racist against, cartoon characters?"

Yeah same.

I just wish there was more outrage for Bill 21, rather than an obvious mistake made 18 years ago.

pretty much. As terrible as this is, it isn't going to change anybody's opinion of him that much (see Aga Khan, trip to India for other instances of terrible judgement). I don't think anybody's going to actually start thinking Trudeau is racist because of this.

No. But I think the usual view of political scandals is that they hurt most when they confirm general perceptions that are already out there*--in this case that Trudeau is privileged, clueless, and a hypocrite.

*with the standard caveat that normal rules do not apply to Trump

wtf, another? How have none of these surfaced before now?

https://globalnews.ca/news/5922861/justin-trudeau-brownface-video

'Fuck everything about this' is likely to be my refrain throughout.

― pomenitul, Thursday, September 19, 2019 7:53 AM (five hours ago)

Trudeau has has negative momentum for a while now and most liberals know it. If there was some other star candidate waiting in the wings, I’d almost wonder if this was a Patrick Brown style hit job to pull a last minute leadership switcheroo. But yeah, fuck everything about this sums it up nicely.

Also I’d like to remind anyone who thinks blackfaces were consensually understood as bad in 2001, that they are still not really understood as bad in Quebec. The context is different and I think it matters.

they are still not really understood as bad in Quebec

Correct.

What about in BC, though?

the Arabian Nights teacher party was in Vancouver though

is there any context yet on this new little video of him in blackface throwing his hands up?

fuck him. what a complete distraction. Put a new leader in. I don't care if it is an internal hit.

so we went from zero to three in less than a day? it doesn't reflect well on Trudeau at all – but i find it more than a little gross this is only coming to light now because of political opportunism and not any kind of sense of right and wrong. it's obvious someone was sitting on these until the election – and whether it was the conservatives or greens (Kinsella), no one comes out looking good on this. i always felt Trudeau was a entitled rich kid and he’s definitely lost some respect from me over this. however he did a better job than i expected as PM and has welcomed refugees & very publicly denounced Islamophobia. So this is all kind of a giant, gross, unwelcome wash in my books.

Yeah, blackface was something you would semi-regularly see on Québecois TV as late as the 90s. That doesn't make it right but I can excuse a teenage Trudeau for not realizing there's anything wrong with it.

Brownface in Vancouver in 2001 at age 29 is certainly worse. He should have known better by then, I would think.

He has to fuck off. To not have come totally clean last night. Nope. Go away.

There is indeed something quite gross about all the Bill 21 supporters and 'close our borders' conservatives celebrating this debacle, when they'd be the first to defend a right-leaning politician from such charges, tooth and nail. That said, hypocrisy is a juicy target regardless of one's own values.

In any case, we mustn't lose sight of the fact that a conservative government would be significantly worse for visible minorities, period.

I haven't even looked at reaction yet from the right. I agree with what you're saying here. And yet I was always going to have a hard time standing in line on a weeknight to prop up the Liberals. This is just too much. We don't vote directly for PM. Put someone else up front. Basically anyone.

And lose all the votes he's just gained in Quebec?

(Sorry, I couldn't help it.)

yes. the way i see it, if you're in a riding that could go either liberal or conservative and you let this tip you to Con; you're an idiot.

xposts

He has to fuck off. To not have come totally clean last night. Nope. Go away.

― maffew12, Thursday, September 19, 2019 10:52 AM (five minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

He did say there was the Day O video.

The video was shot in the early 1990s, however, it’s not clear where it takes place ... He’s wearing a white T-shirt, and his jeans are ripped at the knees.

Grunge-era blackface

and lets be realistic, they're not changing leaders mid-campaign. if they wind up with a minority or in opposition after the election, they will probably start looking to do just that tho.

I'll forgive him if he records a calypso album immediately

lol

Btw, last year Scheer gave a dogwhistling speech in which he warned of 'forces of political correctness' so hearing him say that brownface was 'just as racist in 2001 as it is in 2019' is quite rich.

And lose all the votes he's just gained in Quebec?

I actually wondered about this, thinking about that legendary Bernier tweet.

I'm having trouble getting very worked up about this tbh. He did something dumb, not criminal, 18 years ago (+ earlier as a teenager at a Jesuit college in Quebec), for which he has apologized. I don't know that there's any reason to believe it was motivated by hate or mocking cruelty as opposed to clueless Orientalism - arguably, someone could make that accusation about having an 'Arabian Nights'/Aladdin theme for a party in the first place. Since then, he came to power in an election where he defended the right of Muslim women to wear the niqab while swearing citizenship against the Tories and BQ and has welcomed Middle Eastern refugees when they were getting turned away elsewhere. We knew he was a privileged goof who likes to wear embarrasing costumes; does anyone think this means he is likely to promote racist policies at any level? I wasn't leaning Liberal before and I'm not now but I don't think this calls for a resignation. Maybe I'm 2-5% more likely to vote NDP over Green to promote the representation of a leader who has dark skin and a turban full-time?

One photo last night, I didn't care, it's basically as you put it. Then this other stuff coming out is a bit much. Why mention Dayo and not whatever the hell else? What is going on here?

Why Green over NDP btw?

I do agree that dumbassery is likely the root cause of his past behaviour; he doesn't strike me as a closeted racist.

xp

That all (Sund4r's post) sounds about right to me, though pom is otm too. In a better world where politicians were always held to high standards, this would be disqualifying, but in this electoral system you're voting against people you hate not for you like imo (nb. I am American) and this helping the Conservatives in any way would be deranged.

For those who won't or don't have to vote Liberal, I'm curious how you're distinguishing the NDP from the Greens (uh, I assume no one here is considering other options). Climate change is my biggest issue, but I was pretty disappointed that the Green platform doesn't mention public transit at all.

xxp leave dayo alone!!1

And Scheer said those things as an elected official. I think that Trudeau being a teacher at the time and not a politician has to be addressed somehow, because I don’t think it is useful to conflates both predispositions. We all make mistakes and when are you an entitled rich brat, which Trudeau has all the reasons to be, it takes even more time to learn from mistakes; it doesn’t help than in Quebec, I will repeat, those are not considered mistakes and perhaps if I had been scolded back at Brebeuf maybe the learning happens earlier. Also, how many people do we think scolded him on that night in Vancouver? People were sure willing to take photos with him.

In the end what matters is the policy as an elected official, and there is so much worse damage he has done as a PM with say just the freakin Trans Mountain pipeline, which might not be his worst thing ymmv. And yet he won’t learn from that mistake too because we built a political system in which the consequences for mistakes are only weighed with caveat of the alternative: who among us wants Scheer back? After all, Trudeau did a tremendous job in reducing poverty, his promotion of a multicultural nation is relief in a world of right wing populism, assisted suicide and weed legalization are great.

What truly upsets me is that deep down I doubt that the NPD will surge after this, that Canmedia is just unable to give credit to the NPD as a political organisation. Is not just the coverage, but the love for all things centrism makes it hard for the NDP to be itself: a left wing response to Canadian centrism. It’s why Mulcair fell in the trap. It also upsets me that racism in parts of Canada will make it hard for Singh to gain momentum. No one cared about the Greens until the NDP elected a sikh. I don’t know if I would always vote for the NDP, but a strong NDP would make the liberals and consequently the PC more liable and accountable. Now we are in a shitty position having to choose between the Transmountain pipeline and Transmountain pipeline + dog whistling + austerity. Just like Trudeau wasn’t put in a position to learn from his brownface mistakes when he was in high school.

The second shitty thing is that in that context, if a teacher tomorrow in Sarnia is revealed to have used blackface, he loses his job and gets shamed to death and will probably won’t have a big enough platform to apologize and will most probably not be given a chance to learn from his mistakes. But both the conservatives and liberals, over and over and over get a chance.

I'm in an NDP riding and they've got a new candidate this year, as Hélène Laverdière is retiring. Chances of not losing it to the Liberals seem slim, if only because their candidate also happens to be a co-founder of Equiterre (which will likely sideline the Green Party completely), so I see no reason not to vote NDP again. There's the Bloc, too, I guess, but I highly doubt anyone gives enough of a shit anymore.

xps

Yeah, that's all otm, VHS.

As a side note, I do appreciate that Trudeau has implemented Bill C-76, which allows Canadians that have been living abroad for more than five years to vote as well. It doesn't concern me personally, as I've only been away for a year and plan on moving back (well, if at all professionally possible) but it's still an important step imho.