REM: Classic or dud?

I agree that R.E.M. falls into a continuum of bands that engaged with the concept of Americana (e.g., the Band, the Dead, the Beach Boys, 10,000 Maniacs, etc.), in a way that's not so true of the Replacements or Black Flag or Husker Du, etc.

(actually I don't know a lot about Husker Du, so forget that example; just namechecking some roughly contemporaneous & celebrated acts)

Josh - Perhaps an even bigger impact was on Fairport Convention, I think it helped kick off folk rock.

Think they said, we'd love to be like The Band, but we cant, so we'll dig into Britain's past and do something spiritually similar.

And here's a forthcoming box set next month about just that:

https://www.cherryred.co.uk/product/across-the-great-divide-getting-it-together-in-the-country-1968-74-various-artists-3cd-boxset/

Another thing about R.E.M. is they did what I described without getting too much into working in "traditional" American musical idioms (with some exceptions). They were the "new, weird Americana"...

Josh - Perhaps an even bigger impact was on Fairport Convention, I think it helped kick off folk rock.

Oh, absolutely, totally forgot about the Band's (and "Americana"'s) influence on them. I mean, look at the songs that what was more or less Fairport covered as the Bunch. Buddy Holly, Ray Price, Elvis, Johnny Otis, Chuck Berry, Everly Brothers ...And then there's the cover of "Million Dollar Bash" on "Unhalfbricking."

The lyrical references are all American, aren't they? Which could seem ordinary to American ears but overseas would have that same allure that Jarmusch and Paris, Texas and such have.

I'd say that many of them sound exotic to American ears as well, at least to mine. As a kid growing up in Boston, REM sounded like they were from another world entirely.

REM never sounded particularly weird or exotic to me, neither did the Band. (Of course, for the longest time the Eno solo albums didn't sound exotic to me, either, but a year or two ago they suddenly reverse-clicked after a couple of decades of listening and I thought, huh, this shit is pretty weird.) But now that it's been brought up, Fairport always sounded exotic to me.

Most of R.E.M.'s early lyrics were obviously pretty unintelligible and/or elliptical in the first place -- but when you could understand them, some of the lyrics (particularly on Fables)obv. engaged with specifically Southern/regional topix. There was also "Little America" (a road/tour song), etc.

When Out of Time came out, Stipe was going around saying that the phrase "losing my religion" was a Southern idiom, but I don't know if that was really true or not.

It is. Synonymous with 'at my wit's end' and things of that nature.

it was really true then and it still is

re: very kind of American music...there seem to be a lot of takes wondering where their legacy will end up, and increasingly I think The Band is the most likely outcome. Deified in their lifetime, but ultimately just a really good (American) band that moved the needle, perhaps less musically, and more as inspiration.

― campreverb, Friday, September 13, 2019 1:42 PM (five hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

aside from the southern gothic thing and I guess drafting in mandolins (?) comparisons btw REM and The Band are totally lost on me...The Band were shambolic and shaggy, even at their most "country" REM was was tight as shit with pop hooks, punk ethos, new wave sensibilty

but esp w/r/t legacy...I mean the Band charted 2 top 50 songs. REM had six #1 singles! For a moment they were the biggest band in the world. I doubt they'll be remembered more as an "inspiration" than as a singular band with great albums.

Deified in their lifetime, but ultimately just a really good (American) band that moved the needle, perhaps less musically, and more as inspiration.

Absolutely moved the needle for me musically. I'm a musician, born in 1968, and in 1984 they were, for me, the number one model of what I wanted to find my way to being ten years down the road.

would you describe something like Son House or Miles Davis as very American kind of music?

Thanks for elaborating on this topic when I didn't. Yes of course on Son House. My immediate reaction to that question re. jazz is that I absolutely see early jazz, big band, and bebop as very American kinds of music.

I don't know enough about Miles Davis.

Another thing about R.E.M. is they did what I described without getting too much into working in "traditional" American musical idioms (with some exceptions). They were the "new, weird Americana"...

Yes!!!!

Their talent in the early days does strike me in retrospect as having been a revival of some sort of perception of what a rock band unit could be. I've always related the old story about Bertis Downs first seeing them play and thinking, "It's like seeing the Who in 1964" (or whatever he said, exactly) to this.

George Harrison called them "the best band in the history of the universe.”
precisely my point-the contemporaneous accounts of The Band suggests that the praise/influence in their lifetime hasn't really matched their subsequent critical stature.

That seems to be occurring with REM as well. don't get me wrong, I love them both, but it would be naive to think their stature has held up to anywhere near the level of the peak adulation during their IRS run. In the back of my mind are Soto's posts on his blog about how his students barely know who they are.

Strictly chronologically speaking, that is like wondering in 1984 what college students knew about music from 1949, though.

> REM had six #1 singles!

Nah...even "Losing My Religion" wasn't a #1 song. Are you thinking Modern Rock/Alternative/whatever charts?

Four top ten US singles, nine top ten US albums.

(Grain of salt on the last two albums, neither of which was RIAA gold.)

Timely!

Three-fourths of @remhq backing Vanessa Hay (@Pylongirl) on “Crazy” by Pylon tonight in Atlanta does the soul good. https://t.co/YfRdC5L908

— Annie Zaleski (@anniezaleski) September 14, 2019

:D

Wow!

yeeeeeahhh

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EEY6upiXsAIY4VV?format=jpg&name=large

video of Texarkana plz

dying @ Battleship Chains with that lineup, but in a good way

Perhaps Uncut gave me a distorted picture (again, the magazine was huge on Americana) because I thought The Band were still big and they got me into them (and they were huge for me). I'm sure they had a free cd of bands influenced/covering/tributing. Drive By Truckers had a gorgeous song about The Band. Maybe they're bigger in the UK as a result?

The Band was tremendously influential! virtually a sea change in 60s rock... between that, Basement Tapes and John Wesley Harding they changed the course of rock music from summer of love hijinks to ruralism

I'd say Big Pink might be as influential as any album in rock, especially because it seemed to really shake up a bunch of big stars as mentioned upthread

xps Vanessa is amazing, maybe she could front the R.E.M. Reenactment Society

I don't think R.E.M. ever came close to the Band's collective musicianship, but there are definitely parallels in terms of early canonization and subsequent fading from popular awareness ... in terms of ongoing influence on other musicians, the Band looms much larger

the comparison highlights the fact that R.E.M. never really made a roots/Americana move, in spite of the Byrds influences and and occasional mandolins ... maybe "Rockville" comes closest, but that's not exactly "The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down"

New Wave bands in Georgia c. 1980 had to take a hard line against country, blues, boogie, and choogling

if there's a recording of that set I will pay top dollar just for "Money Changes Everything"

"Money Changes Everything" was the Brains' sort-of-hit when R.E.M. opened for them in May 1979 ... my first R.E.M. show </bragging>

May 1980, god I am such a poseur

no that’s awesome

a few nice photos in this review of last night's show

https://atlantaintownpaper.com/2019/09/concert-review-drivin-n-cryin-drive-by-truckers-and-most-of-rem-play-revival-to-benefit-fox-theatre-institute/

I don't think R.E.M. ever came close to the Band's collective musicianship

Sure, but from the other side of the coin, not sure the Band ever made an album as good as Murmur.

I think the second album is.

I recall reading an interview with one of the Beatles, possibly/probably George, where even though they were all on friendly enough terms they had to always be aware where the rest of their former bandmates were, because they didn't want to all be in the same place at the same time and be pressured to play together.

one of the amazing things about early R.E.M. is how well they wrote and played given Buck and Stipe's limited musical experience ... to me Murmur sounds like a young band making a creative strength of simplicity while Music from Big Pink sounds like veteran players doing deceptively simple things

Yes, but I don't think their simplicity should be overstated. Peter Buck has said that he was pushing and playing at the limit of his capabilities in the early years. Mills and Berry could play.

Berry is a heckuva drummer. Probably my favorite element of the band, how he excitedly speeds up going into a prechorus or chorus. Maybe that’s a standard pop drummer trick but he did it so well, adding a few beats, not a fill but your heart speeding up, getting to the good part

There were no replaceable parts in this band. I might even venture that if you had to replace one, they might have still been interesting without Stipe

He's kind of the most interesting thing about the band (who are all interesting).

I might even venture that if you had to replace one, they might have still been interesting without Stipe

Warren Zevon has a plan for that!

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/19/Sentimental_Hygiene_album_cover.jpg

The After Party:

https://defendingaxlrose.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/screen-shot-2012-08-19-at-3-02-11-pm.png

Includes "Battleship Chains"!

Sentimental Hygiene is often my favorite Zevon precisely because of the paces Zevon puts R.E.M. through on "Even a Dog Can Shake Hands."

There's probably an alternate timeline wherein Stipe fucks off in the late '80s, and the rest of the band becomes the Alt-Rock MG's.

Was Stipe an obstacle to people liking the band? I heard that before they broke big, but not much afterward until Berry left.