the worst thing about orchestras

(And my point w/the Victoria tweet was that the “divide” may be more in your head than reality, when it comes to different types of music.)

Taylor Swift a noted fan of John Luther Adams: https://www.seattletimes.com/entertainment/classical-music/pop-megastar-taylor-swift-donates-50000-to-seattle-symphony/

John Luther Adams is ambient

Ambient is classical.

Erik Satie invented ambient 100 years ago

The $ went to the orchestra. Inspired in large part by a performance of Become Ocean, which is scored for orchestra. Genre labels seem beside the point here tbh.

Kinda on Jordan’s side here meself. orchestras are absolutely a gross upper-class patronage thing

While jazz is institutionally ignored?

https://www.jazz.org/events/2019-20-season/
https://www.lacma.org/events-calendar?event_hub=Jazz+at+LACMA
https://www.thewright.org/component/itsocial/event/3367

LOL, no orchestras in the world are self-sustaining, pretty gross that they’re being kept alive via philanthropy and institutional support. Let classical music go bankrupt!

Yes, any art that the commercial marketplace won't support has no reason to exist. Fuck it all - teen pop and chud-rock for everyone!

Arguments about public funding are familiar and, I guess, understandable. Folks finding private philanthropy distasteful is less familiar. I mean, much of the arts is kept afloat by bequests etc in my neck of the woods. Is the argument still "it should have gone to hospitals" or whatever, re private donations?

should have gone to cascadian black metal bands

Presumably all Nazis.

I find it much more upsetting that rich people give money to hospitals. Like what the fuck?

easiest place to add a wing on something that lots of people will see the name of

Yeah but hospitals are the worst!!

(And my point w/the Victoria tweet was that the “divide” may be more in your head than reality, when it comes to different types of music.)

I wasn't talking about aesthetics, I was talking funding.

While jazz is institutionally ignored?

Jazz musicians get a gig, not a salary and benefits (aside from university professors, but that's a different thing).

Not that different.

Jordan, do you mainly just want more funding for non-orchestral musicians in the US or do you also want orchestral musicians to be punished somehow?

Or at the least defunded

xxp You said the fact that orchestras receive donations is due to a “bullshit high/low divide.” I’ve pointed out that (a) this funding is apparently the only way major orchestras can survive today, which is not true of jazz combos, rock bands, barbershop quartets, EDM guys, etc.; and (b) your “high-low” take further breaks down when you consider that orchestral music is taught in schools, enjoyed by many, and is learned/loved/appreciated by artists who work in many genres — and is arguably more universal than your counterexample of jazz, which (nothing against it) has a very highbrow/elite aura and is just as institutionally celebrated as “high art.”

32 violins but only one pair of maracas at most

I'm still struggling with "irrelevant art form". Can someone point out a relevant artform so I can better grasp the distinction?

Wow this thread got weird. All arts should be funded by the government. I’m not personally anti-union— I support the AFM! but the structure of paying out residuals cannot happen any more. Record labels do not have the infrastructure to even calculate that shit. Disney hands $1m to an orchestra to get them to work off contract. I’m not alone in feeling this way, the leaders of my local have written articles in the newsletter expressing the same sentiment.

It could be wrong, but I think that I read once that VDParks was partially responsible for the residual model when he worked at Warner? I could be wrong. Anyway this isn’t a case of “we need to give musicians less power” it’s that this model is actually currently untenable.

shitby

Fuck it all - teen pop and chud-rock for everyone!

Sounds like you hate democracy.

should have gone to cascadian black metal bands

― j., Sunday, September 8, 2019 3:05 AM (eight hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Right when I read this post, a dog howled in the distance.

I'm still struggling with "irrelevant art form". Can someone point out a relevant artform so I can better grasp the distinction?

https://news.avclub.com/the-smash-mouth-musical-exists-and-its-all-all-star-1829723236

lol

First of all, I'm not saying orchestras should be defunded, I would just like some parity when it comes to arts funding.

which is not true of jazz combos, rock bands, barbershop quartets, EDM guys, etc.

I disagree with this. Sure, it's easy to have one of these because the infrastructure costs are much lower, but nearly impossible to make it a career.

I'm still struggling with "irrelevant art form". Can someone point out a relevant artform so I can better grasp the distinction?

Idk, what was the last new work you went to see a full orchestra perform?

Not that this doesn't happen, but I don't hear about it, ever.

Ffs arts funding is such a minuscule part of any government’s budget, “wanting some say” is imo the wrong attitude (I.e. getting to say which bodies get funding) when instead we can just universally be asking for more funding across the board

I’d get into this fight abt BSS because that band received $1m of grants over a ten year period and people were annoyed and I’m like “no, give them more, give more to other bands, too”.

Anyway did you know that there are hundreds of orchestras across Finland? Every town has one. Finland has the same population as NYC. NYC now has one orchestra

Finland has simply failed to grasp that classical music is outmoded and irrelevant and elitist. It'll come around as soon as it accepts the civilizational supremacy of American pop culture.

The sole democratic art form, in case you were wondering.

Anyway did you know that there are hundreds of orchestras across Finland? Every town has one.

Citation needed.

https://fmq.fi/articles/orchestras-for-all

Thanks. Bit of hyppiäbole going on itt.

Idk, what was the last new work you went to see a full orchestra perform?

I generally only see orchestra concerts I’m performing in (#flex) but every major American symphony debuts commissioned pieces every year. Plus, this question implies that the only music worth hearing in performance is new music, which is a 100% bullshit stance regardless of genre.

That Finnish website makes a good case for the cultural importance of its (state-funded) orchestras.

this question implies that the only music worth hearing in performance is new music, which is a 100% bullshit stance regardless of genre.

Djp otm. You want to criticize me for not keeping up with new work? Okay, demonstrate that you've listened to everything there is from every previous century and we'll talk.

Indeed, this is true in all the arts. I have a friend who is a decently successful playwright, and I recently caught myself apologizing to him because, given my limited budget and time to go to the theater, I still actively want to go see Shakespeare. Then I thought, wtf? Shakespeare is fucking great a lot of the time. I should not be apologizing for liking what I like.

So if I am not aware of the latest, crunkest, twerkest trend, friend: have you listened to all of Telemann yet? If not, stfu.

My friend Erik routinely enters contests for new pieces for a variety of instruments and he often wins and has orchestral ensembles play them live.

But also yes DJP otm

That's kind of a consumerist way to approach art. I get being afraid of becoming rockist and everybody ignoring new music in lieu of championing the same five works until the end of time but yee gods, who cares even if an orchestra specializes in centuries old pieces?

"yo u get the new Mozart cassingle?"

Personally I'm most attracted to rhythm and texture in music, so orchestral music doesn't interest me that much tbh. And I've always been interested in new music for whatever reason. This should not come as a surprise to anyone who's ever read my posts or heard music I've been involved in.

Okay, demonstrate that you've listened to everything there is from every previous century and we'll talk.

Well, I've made a pretty good study of jazz.

"Mozart Cassingle" is the name of my Falco tribute band, btw

Personally I'm most attracted to rhythm and texture in music, so orchestral music doesn't interest me that much tbh.

Ok this is the most wtf sentence I've read in, er, weeks.

that makes it sound like orchestral music is gelatinous

Obv orchestras have some of the richest textural resources available and there is no music without rhythm. Jordan looks for a groove ime.

But Stravinsky, Bartók, American minimalism…

Beethoven's "Mothership Connection"

xxxp knowing Jordan's work and history helps there, it totally makes sense to me. dude is a drummer!