Orchestral music can’t survive at all in “the marketplace,” it relies on other support (that’s the point of the first article I posted). Which other forms of supposedly “rotting” music would like to see subsidized, and how? Guess you won’t answer, ‘cuz you’ve bounced.
― #YABASIC (morrisp), Sunday, 8 September 2019 00:05 (four years ago) link
I mean jazz would be the obvious next in line. But most music can't really survive very well either these days, at least not with any hope of being a professional. But I hear about people in other countries being more easily able to get grants to run venues, pursue an ambitious musical project, etc, and it sounds nice! And it does irritate me that in the U.S., that seems to be limited to a very specific sort of music and centered around a bullshit high/low culture divide.
― change display name (Jordan), Sunday, 8 September 2019 00:14 (four years ago) link
Jazz, music of the people
― #YABASIC (morrisp), Sunday, 8 September 2019 00:18 (four years ago) link
literally yes
― change display name (Jordan), Sunday, 8 September 2019 00:27 (four years ago) link
“high/low culture divide”
Just saw the most amazing Italian world-renowned composer Ludovico Einaudi play with 2 pieces in a living room! The amount of emotion and visions classical music can trigger literally IS life!! Just piano and strings and im THERE!!! Gaaaaaahh I LOVE MUSIC ✨✨✨ so inspired 😭— Victoria Monét (@VictoriaMonet) June 14, 2019
― #YABASIC (morrisp), Sunday, 8 September 2019 00:27 (four years ago) link
Gotta suck being in an orchestra and having to learn all those John Williams scores.
― pplains, Sunday, 8 September 2019 00:27 (four years ago) link
I went to a music summer camp once and we had a newsletter that printed handwritten notes from the students and one said John Williams is the best composer of all time and the Editor angrily added "UHH, NO!!!"
― FUCK YOUR POTATO (Neanderthal), Sunday, 8 September 2019 00:30 (four years ago) link
Not sure what point you're trying to make there morris?
― change display name (Jordan), Sunday, 8 September 2019 00:33 (four years ago) link
That lots of people love classical music, and orchestras also program many events with broad appeal. Check out the upcoming LAPhil calendar (just to use my local example): https://www.laphil.com/events/
― #YABASIC (morrisp), Sunday, 8 September 2019 00:43 (four years ago) link
(And my point w/the Victoria tweet was that the “divide” may be more in your head than reality, when it comes to different types of music.)
― #YABASIC (morrisp), Sunday, 8 September 2019 00:45 (four years ago) link
Taylor Swift a noted fan of John Luther Adams: https://www.seattletimes.com/entertainment/classical-music/pop-megastar-taylor-swift-donates-50000-to-seattle-symphony/
― All along there is the sound of feedback (Sund4r), Sunday, 8 September 2019 01:18 (four years ago) link
John Luther Adams is ambient
― brimstead, Sunday, 8 September 2019 01:25 (four years ago) link
Ambient is classical.
― president of deluded fruitcakes anonymous (silby), Sunday, 8 September 2019 01:34 (four years ago) link
Erik Satie invented ambient 100 years ago
The $ went to the orchestra. Inspired in large part by a performance of Become Ocean, which is scored for orchestra. Genre labels seem beside the point here tbh.
― Nag! Nag! Nag!, Sunday, 8 September 2019 01:41 (four years ago) link
Kinda on Jordan’s side here meself. orchestras are absolutely a gross upper-class patronage thing
― Οὖτις, Sunday, 8 September 2019 01:55 (four years ago) link
While jazz is institutionally ignored?https://www.jazz.org/events/2019-20-season/https://www.lacma.org/events-calendar?event_hub=Jazz+at+LACMAhttps://www.thewright.org/component/itsocial/event/3367
― #YABASIC (morrisp), Sunday, 8 September 2019 02:05 (four years ago) link
LOL, no orchestras in the world are self-sustaining, pretty gross that they’re being kept alive via philanthropy and institutional support. Let classical music go bankrupt!
― #YABASIC (morrisp), Sunday, 8 September 2019 02:09 (four years ago) link
Yes, any art that the commercial marketplace won't support has no reason to exist. Fuck it all - teen pop and chud-rock for everyone!
― shared unit of analysis (unperson), Sunday, 8 September 2019 02:27 (four years ago) link
Arguments about public funding are familiar and, I guess, understandable. Folks finding private philanthropy distasteful is less familiar. I mean, much of the arts is kept afloat by bequests etc in my neck of the woods. Is the argument still "it should have gone to hospitals" or whatever, re private donations?
― Nag! Nag! Nag!, Sunday, 8 September 2019 03:03 (four years ago) link
should have gone to cascadian black metal bands
― j., Sunday, 8 September 2019 03:05 (four years ago) link
Presumably all Nazis.
― president of deluded fruitcakes anonymous (silby), Sunday, 8 September 2019 03:26 (four years ago) link
I find it much more upsetting that rich people give money to hospitals. Like what the fuck?
― president of deluded fruitcakes anonymous (silby), Sunday, 8 September 2019 03:27 (four years ago) link
easiest place to add a wing on something that lots of people will see the name of
― j., Sunday, 8 September 2019 03:33 (four years ago) link
Yeah but hospitals are the worst!!
― president of deluded fruitcakes anonymous (silby), Sunday, 8 September 2019 03:35 (four years ago) link
I wasn't talking about aesthetics, I was talking funding.
While jazz is institutionally ignored?
Jazz musicians get a gig, not a salary and benefits (aside from university professors, but that's a different thing).
― change display name (Jordan), Sunday, 8 September 2019 04:17 (four years ago) link
Not that different.
― president of deluded fruitcakes anonymous (silby), Sunday, 8 September 2019 04:45 (four years ago) link
Jordan, do you mainly just want more funding for non-orchestral musicians in the US or do you also want orchestral musicians to be punished somehow?
― All along there is the sound of feedback (Sund4r), Sunday, 8 September 2019 04:49 (four years ago) link
Or at the least defunded
― All along there is the sound of feedback (Sund4r), Sunday, 8 September 2019 04:52 (four years ago) link
xxp You said the fact that orchestras receive donations is due to a “bullshit high/low divide.” I’ve pointed out that (a) this funding is apparently the only way major orchestras can survive today, which is not true of jazz combos, rock bands, barbershop quartets, EDM guys, etc.; and (b) your “high-low” take further breaks down when you consider that orchestral music is taught in schools, enjoyed by many, and is learned/loved/appreciated by artists who work in many genres — and is arguably more universal than your counterexample of jazz, which (nothing against it) has a very highbrow/elite aura and is just as institutionally celebrated as “high art.”
― #YABASIC (morrisp), Sunday, 8 September 2019 05:00 (four years ago) link
32 violins but only one pair of maracas at most
― Non stop chantar (crüt), Sunday, 8 September 2019 05:03 (four years ago) link
I'm still struggling with "irrelevant art form". Can someone point out a relevant artform so I can better grasp the distinction?
― Nag! Nag! Nag!, Sunday, 8 September 2019 05:09 (four years ago) link
Wow this thread got weird. All arts should be funded by the government. I’m not personally anti-union— I support the AFM! but the structure of paying out residuals cannot happen any more. Record labels do not have the infrastructure to even calculate that shit. Disney hands $1m to an orchestra to get them to work off contract. I’m not alone in feeling this way, the leaders of my local have written articles in the newsletter expressing the same sentiment.
It could be wrong, but I think that I read once that VDParks was partially responsible for the residual model when he worked at Warner? I could be wrong. Anyway this isn’t a case of “we need to give musicians less power” it’s that this model is actually currently untenable.
― flamboyant goon tie included, Sunday, 8 September 2019 05:13 (four years ago) link
shitby
― buzza, Sunday, 8 September 2019 05:47 (four years ago) link
Fuck it all - teen pop and chud-rock for everyone!
Sounds like you hate democracy.
― pomenitul, Sunday, 8 September 2019 08:41 (four years ago) link
― j., Sunday, September 8, 2019 3:05 AM (eight hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
Right when I read this post, a dog howled in the distance.
― ☮ (peace, man), Sunday, 8 September 2019 11:40 (four years ago) link
https://news.avclub.com/the-smash-mouth-musical-exists-and-its-all-all-star-1829723236
― All along there is the sound of feedback (Sund4r), Sunday, 8 September 2019 12:38 (four years ago) link
lol
― pomenitul, Sunday, 8 September 2019 13:20 (four years ago) link
First of all, I'm not saying orchestras should be defunded, I would just like some parity when it comes to arts funding.
which is not true of jazz combos, rock bands, barbershop quartets, EDM guys, etc.
I disagree with this. Sure, it's easy to have one of these because the infrastructure costs are much lower, but nearly impossible to make it a career.
Idk, what was the last new work you went to see a full orchestra perform?
Not that this doesn't happen, but I don't hear about it, ever.
― change display name (Jordan), Sunday, 8 September 2019 14:17 (four years ago) link
Ffs arts funding is such a minuscule part of any government’s budget, “wanting some say” is imo the wrong attitude (I.e. getting to say which bodies get funding) when instead we can just universally be asking for more funding across the board
I’d get into this fight abt BSS because that band received $1m of grants over a ten year period and people were annoyed and I’m like “no, give them more, give more to other bands, too”.
Anyway did you know that there are hundreds of orchestras across Finland? Every town has one. Finland has the same population as NYC. NYC now has one orchestra
― flamboyant goon tie included, Sunday, 8 September 2019 14:27 (four years ago) link
Finland has simply failed to grasp that classical music is outmoded and irrelevant and elitist. It'll come around as soon as it accepts the civilizational supremacy of American pop culture.
― pomenitul, Sunday, 8 September 2019 14:32 (four years ago) link
The sole democratic art form, in case you were wondering.
― pomenitul, Sunday, 8 September 2019 14:33 (four years ago) link
Anyway did you know that there are hundreds of orchestras across Finland? Every town has one.
Citation needed.
― Boulez, vous couchez avec moi? (Tom D.), Sunday, 8 September 2019 14:38 (four years ago) link
https://fmq.fi/articles/orchestras-for-all
― pomenitul, Sunday, 8 September 2019 14:43 (four years ago) link
Thanks. Bit of hyppiäbole going on itt.
― Boulez, vous couchez avec moi? (Tom D.), Sunday, 8 September 2019 14:47 (four years ago) link
I generally only see orchestra concerts I’m performing in (#flex) but every major American symphony debuts commissioned pieces every year. Plus, this question implies that the only music worth hearing in performance is new music, which is a 100% bullshit stance regardless of genre.
― brigadier pudding (DJP), Sunday, 8 September 2019 15:00 (four years ago) link
That Finnish website makes a good case for the cultural importance of its (state-funded) orchestras.
― #YABASIC (morrisp), Sunday, 8 September 2019 15:05 (four years ago) link
this question implies that the only music worth hearing in performance is new music, which is a 100% bullshit stance regardless of genre.
Djp otm. You want to criticize me for not keeping up with new work? Okay, demonstrate that you've listened to everything there is from every previous century and we'll talk.
Indeed, this is true in all the arts. I have a friend who is a decently successful playwright, and I recently caught myself apologizing to him because, given my limited budget and time to go to the theater, I still actively want to go see Shakespeare. Then I thought, wtf? Shakespeare is fucking great a lot of the time. I should not be apologizing for liking what I like.
So if I am not aware of the latest, crunkest, twerkest trend, friend: have you listened to all of Telemann yet? If not, stfu.
― And the wind... cries... Larry (Ye Mad Puffin), Sunday, 8 September 2019 15:37 (four years ago) link
My friend Erik routinely enters contests for new pieces for a variety of instruments and he often wins and has orchestral ensembles play them live.
But also yes DJP otm
― FUCK YOUR POTATO (Neanderthal), Sunday, 8 September 2019 15:45 (four years ago) link
That's kind of a consumerist way to approach art. I get being afraid of becoming rockist and everybody ignoring new music in lieu of championing the same five works until the end of time but yee gods, who cares even if an orchestra specializes in centuries old pieces?
― FUCK YOUR POTATO (Neanderthal), Sunday, 8 September 2019 15:48 (four years ago) link