TBF I have definitely been to some orchestral performances where they have definitely been mererly going through the motions (cf. Henry Wood’s comments wrt Beethoven when he took over the proms), but an orchestra with passion is a truly wonderful thing. Last thing that really blew me away was Teodor Currntzis doing Beethoven’s 5th which was the very opposite of just phoning it in.
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Friday, 6 September 2019 23:43 (four years ago) link
why do they always wear black, try some color, people
― j., Friday, 6 September 2019 23:45 (four years ago) link
Why don't they play synths yo
― FUCK YOUR POTATO (Neanderthal), Friday, 6 September 2019 23:50 (four years ago) link
Sometimes they do and it's lame (ie when a dance music person collaborates with an orchestra to get that grant money)
― change display name (Jordan), Friday, 6 September 2019 23:52 (four years ago) link
Also why does drummer not play blast beats
― FUCK YOUR POTATO (Neanderthal), Saturday, 7 September 2019 00:06 (four years ago) link
Insisting on doing, like, 'tributes' to Daft Punk or Lil Wayne or something
― frame casual (dog latin), Saturday, 7 September 2019 00:08 (four years ago) link
i opened this thread expecting at least one fingering/tonguing joke attempt.
― Yerac, Saturday, 7 September 2019 00:22 (four years ago) link
Programming is an issue, for sure, but the worst thing about orchestras is that there are not enough of them.
― flamboyant goon tie included, Saturday, 7 September 2019 00:33 (four years ago) link
Also the other worst thing about orchestras is that the AFM hasn’t reformed the same residuals mandate that originated in the early 70s, and it is impossible to feasibly hire a North American orchestra for recording as a result
― flamboyant goon tie included, Saturday, 7 September 2019 00:35 (four years ago) link
Much to Prague’s benefit
― valet doberman (Jon not Jon), Saturday, 7 September 2019 01:10 (four years ago) link
Too much 19th century European music.
― aworks, Saturday, 7 September 2019 01:26 (four years ago) link
I used to use the Prague orchestra. They were good! I use another one now.
Honestly orchestras are a wonderful, living breathing thing. Along with "the piano" and "the organ" and "a choir" they are truly one of humanity's finest musical creations. I have no concept of why anyone would disparage an orchestra.
― flamboyant goon tie included, Saturday, 7 September 2019 03:09 (four years ago) link
they still think lasers are cool
― henry s, Saturday, 7 September 2019 03:37 (four years ago) link
Sometimes they pay their players too much, but their players have an inflated sense of entitlement considering that they're involved in an irrelevant and dying art form only supported by largesse of rich people who are beholden to outdated cultural signifiers
― don’t bore us, get to the aeon of horus (bizarro gazzara), Saturday, 7 September 2019 05:15 (four years ago) link
The only one allowed to pull any stank faces is the conductor, and he's not facing us.
― Hideous Lump, Saturday, 7 September 2019 06:03 (four years ago) link
They're the aural mirror image of totalitarianism.
― pomenitul, Saturday, 7 September 2019 08:55 (four years ago) link
french horns are wonderful and underused
― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Saturday, 7 September 2019 10:03 (four years ago) link
Proof:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fo2qIKsSj8
― pomenitul, Saturday, 7 September 2019 10:11 (four years ago) link
Forgot pt. II (video dates from YT's prehistory):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CNMpW8BwCQ
― pomenitul, Saturday, 7 September 2019 10:19 (four years ago) link
Hell yeah Ligeti really figured out some amazing things abt that instrument
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YblCUBsc584
― flamboyant goon tie included, Saturday, 7 September 2019 11:58 (four years ago) link
(Skip ahead to 2:55 for the best part)
― flamboyant goon tie included, Saturday, 7 September 2019 12:00 (four years ago) link
Fuck yeah, love me some
Hamburgisches Konzert
― pomenitul, Saturday, 7 September 2019 12:01 (four years ago) link
Used q instead of i for whatever reason. Whatever, it deserves to be INDENTED.
See also Messiaen ‘Appel Insterstellaire’Or for romantic era total ass kicking, Schumann Konzerstuck for 4 horns and orchestra
― valet doberman (Jon not Jon), Saturday, 7 September 2019 14:36 (four years ago) link
*Interstellaire
― valet doberman (Jon not Jon), Saturday, 7 September 2019 14:37 (four years ago) link
classically-trained musicians are highly-specialised workers whose daily labour is built on decades of physically and mentally taxing practice, often unpaid for years before they make their first paycheque, and they deserve to be paid accordingly
But doing so doesn't entitle them to anything. You can say the exact same thing about jazz musicians, and that they 'deserve' to be paid accordingly, but they're definitely not.
I know tons of bitter jazz musicians, but I once had dinner with a number of long-tenured symphony orchestra musicians, and I've never since met a group that was so bitter, entitled, and seemingly lacking any affection at all for music or the process of making it. And these are people making six figures and working a few days a week. I mean, I know that if you get a bunch of professional musicians together there will be griping, but this was on another level.
― change display name (Jordan), Saturday, 7 September 2019 14:56 (four years ago) link
When (as with the Vienna Philharmonic) they are reluctant to appoint women or ethnic minorities into their ranks. They didn't accept women until 1997.
― van dyke parks generator (anagram), Saturday, 7 September 2019 14:57 (four years ago) link
Vienna tho.
― pomenitul, Saturday, 7 September 2019 14:58 (four years ago) link
LASERS ARE COOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
― j., Saturday, 7 September 2019 15:00 (four years ago) link
Six-figure salaries are surely not typical for most orchestras??
― All along there is the sound of feedback (Sund4r), Saturday, 7 September 2019 15:03 (four years ago) link
It is in Chicago/LA/NYC, I think. This was in Milwaukee, which starts lower, but these musicians had been there for decades.
― change display name (Jordan), Saturday, 7 September 2019 15:08 (four years ago) link
Huh. Nice irk if you can get it, as the old joke goes.
― All along there is the sound of feedback (Sund4r), Saturday, 7 September 2019 15:28 (four years ago) link
― van dyke parks generator (anagram), Saturday, September 7, 2019 10:57 AM (eighteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
A discrimination lawsuit filed by the bassist and composer Art Davis against the New York Philharmonic in the '70s ultimately led to symphony orchestras instituting blind auditions, at least in the US.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Saturday, 7 September 2019 15:28 (four years ago) link
― don’t bore us, get to the aeon of horus (bizarro gazzara), Saturday, 7 September 2019 16:47 (four years ago) link
bg outed as a member of the Euroimperialist bourgeoisie by association.
― pomenitul, Saturday, 7 September 2019 16:50 (four years ago) link
Never in doubt tbh.
― Boulez, vous couchez avec moi? (Tom D.), Saturday, 7 September 2019 17:00 (four years ago) link
i go to the gallows with a clean conscience, secure in the knowledge that lol we’re all gonna die
― don’t bore us, get to the aeon of horus (bizarro gazzara), Saturday, 7 September 2019 17:03 (four years ago) link
xps: sure, in pounds.
― ☮ (peace, man), Saturday, 7 September 2019 17:12 (four years ago) link
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/11/arts/music/chicago-symphony-orchestra-strike.html
― change display name (Jordan), Saturday, 7 September 2019 17:13 (four years ago) link
itt: ilx0rs come out swinging against labour unions
― don’t bore us, get to the aeon of horus (bizarro gazzara), Saturday, 7 September 2019 17:22 (four years ago) link
I support unions, but it seems like a dinosaur of an institution where the compensation is way out of line with the demand and the money coming in.
Especially considering the almost total lack of institutional support for any other musicians in the U.S.
― change display name (Jordan), Saturday, 7 September 2019 17:28 (four years ago) link
I'm sure everything is more equal in Canada and the EU
― change display name (Jordan), Saturday, 7 September 2019 17:33 (four years ago) link
Why do they mostly just play what's written on a piece of paper in front of them? Odds are it's already been played and recorded many times before.
It'd be cool if they sometimes just, y'know, _jammed_ like yr blooz dudes do.
Like, instead of "Ladies and gentlemen, this is J.S. Beetzart's Camry in H minor, opus number Kmart 4337," could they ever be like "Hey this is a funk jam in B, keep it loose and follow me for the changes. I'll solo for eight bars then pass it on via eyebrow cues."
― And the wind... cries... Larry (Ye Mad Puffin), Saturday, 7 September 2019 17:36 (four years ago) link
I support unions, but it seems like a dinosaur of an institution where the compensation is way out of line with the demand and the money coming in.Especially considering the almost total lack of institutional support for any other musicians in the U.S.
― don’t bore us, get to the aeon of horus (bizarro gazzara), Saturday, 7 September 2019 17:43 (four years ago) link
Yep, good characterization of the entirety of non-classical music (which mostly lacks any semblance of hierarchical structure that would support collective bargaining, these days at least)
― change display name (Jordan), Saturday, 7 September 2019 17:56 (four years ago) link
Jordan, what do you think orchestras should be doing with their money instead of wasting it on paying the musicians?
― #YABASIC (morrisp), Saturday, 7 September 2019 18:18 (four years ago) link
the old lady two seats down crinkling something in her purse for 5 minutes
― diamonddave85 (diamonddave85), Saturday, 7 September 2019 18:22 (four years ago) link
I think they have too much money given their role in society, and ideally that money would be better distributed, maybe in the form of grants to organizations & individuals that are building more accessible arts-related things in the community
― change display name (Jordan), Saturday, 7 September 2019 20:02 (four years ago) link
Symphony orchestras aren’t a useful target for your redistributive program ffs
― president of deluded fruitcakes anonymous (silby), Saturday, 7 September 2019 20:12 (four years ago) link
Sort of related idk https://watt.cashmusic.org/writing/institutionalizationofrock
― president of deluded fruitcakes anonymous (silby), Saturday, 7 September 2019 20:14 (four years ago) link
xp: Lord, save us from suburban white people Catching The Spirit(TM)
― brigadier pudding (DJP), Monday, 9 September 2019 14:23 (four years ago) link
if only they had!!
― Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Monday, 9 September 2019 15:02 (four years ago) link
the worst thing about orchestras is when they attempt to "cut loose" or otherwise demonstrate that they're not actually all that stodgy and humorless, eg the last orchestra performance I went to, which ended with an absolutely teeth-grindingly bad and "cheeky" rendition of "Ain't Misbehavin'"― Οὖτις, Friday, September 6, 2019 10:56 PM
― Οὖτις, Friday, September 6, 2019 10:56 PM
Yeah this might in fact be the worst thing. When I was 10, and the obvious classical music idiot in my class, we had a field trip to see the orchestra and I sighed in smug enjoyment for the bulk of the concert. They finished with “something special” *wink wink* and it was either the theme to “Superman” or “Star Wars”, with a light show. My classmates (we were 10!) were so keenly aware of how corny and pandering the whole finale was and were elbowing me and grinning like “haha this is so stupid”— orchestras shouldn’t pander! It’s so ugly.
― flamboyant goon tie included, Monday, 9 September 2019 15:19 (four years ago) link
I am beyond baffled at this idea that orchestra shows are outrageously expensive. Granted, Cleveland is not a high-cost-of-living city, but its orchestra is unquestionably one of the best in the country. I'm looking at Yuja Wang's upcoming Rachmaninoff concert at the end of November, and tickets are available for as little as $21 in the balcony. I pay at least that, and often more, to see bands at larger venues in town like the Masonic Auditorium or Beachland Ballroom. (Courtney Bartnett tickets that went on sale Friday were $35.)
Not only that, but at the great majority of Cleveland Orchestra shows, under-18s get in free; and full-time high school, college, graduate and postgrad students can get tickets to nearly every show for $15; as a result, they have the largest percentage of under-25 audience of any orchestra in America.
― I don't get wet because I am tall and thin and I am afraid of people (Eliza D.), Monday, 9 September 2019 15:21 (four years ago) link
I don't understand the frowning on applause between movements. In practice, it just means having to hear a wave of coughing instead.
― jmm, Monday, 9 September 2019 15:26 (four years ago) link
Yeah, I'm p sure that the most expensive events at the National Arts Centre are the pop concerts ($145 CAD balcony seats for Sarah McLachlan vs $31 balcony seats for orchestra concerts, even e.g. featuring Joshua Bell in February). xp
― All along there is the sound of feedback (Sund4r), Monday, 9 September 2019 15:31 (four years ago) link
Tbh, I usually do hear movements as distinct statements in themselves so I agree that it shouldn't be wrong to applaud for them.
― All along there is the sound of feedback (Sund4r), Monday, 9 September 2019 15:32 (four years ago) link
I found the silence between movements very strange at a performance of Messiaen's Turangalila Symphony I saw. It's like these vast, vast crescendos, then...*cough cough* *rustle* *murmur* until the orchestra starts up again. I didn't want to be the only one leaping to my feet and wildly applauding though so I put up with it.
― funnel spider ESA (Matt #2), Monday, 9 September 2019 15:42 (four years ago) link
A good friend works in arts admin at the Lyr1c Opera in Chicago, looks like tickets start at $70 there. In Madison here, looks like it's similar for the good seats, but there are cheaper balcony options, yeah. I'm more shocked at the cost of big pop music concerts though.
(btw I've heard lots of stories of ridiculous diva-ish behavior via this friend, and that's def influenced my opinions, although I'm sure it's an unfair sample)
― change display name (Jordan), Monday, 9 September 2019 15:42 (four years ago) link
Worst thing about classical concerts imo is the weird issue a bunch of people seem to have with people coughing in the audience. There seems to be some perception, the basis of which I don't know, that people who cough are doing so to call attention to themselves and not because they need to cough.
― All along there is the sound of feedback (Sund4r), Monday, 9 September 2019 15:43 (four years ago) link
(And, yeah, $15 day-of tickets for anyone aged 13-29; free tickets for the companion of someone in a wheelchair. In some ways, these are the most accessible events for a number of groups.)
― All along there is the sound of feedback (Sund4r), Monday, 9 September 2019 15:45 (four years ago) link
Second-worst thing is the conservatism of p much every orchestra's repertoire, given everything that has been written for the medium.
― All along there is the sound of feedback (Sund4r), Monday, 9 September 2019 15:48 (four years ago) link
On the other hand I can't think of any other setting in which coughing is so distracting. It's prob just the acoustics of the typical room, so normal coughing is more noticeable and we perceive it to happen more in that setting. But either way distracting loud coughing is forever associated with orchestras in my mind.
xxp
― Evan, Monday, 9 September 2019 15:48 (four years ago) link
Orchestra halls sound terrible for jazz
― change display name (Jordan), Monday, 9 September 2019 15:52 (four years ago) link
The worst diva behavior I ever witnessed associated with an orchestra-driven performance came from Shawn Colvin
― brigadier pudding (DJP), Monday, 9 September 2019 15:52 (four years ago) link
All of the singers from the Met we performed with were over-the-top gracious, relatable, wonderful people, to the point where several of them friended a bunch of us on Facebook and kept in regular touch, making a point to go out and visit with various choristers whenever they were in town on a gig with the BSO or someone else
― brigadier pudding (DJP), Monday, 9 September 2019 15:54 (four years ago) link
In summation, singer-songwriters are the worst, opera singers are awesome
It's noticeable but I just accept it as part of the experience. Especially given the average age of most orchestra/classical audiences, and the fact that these concerts are among the most accessible events for the physically disabled, I don't see anything exceptional about it. People on classical music groups get so huffy about this. An otherwise magical concert pianist made a point of emphasizing how disrespectful she found audience coughing when I saw her, which was just wtf. xp re coughing
― All along there is the sound of feedback (Sund4r), Monday, 9 September 2019 15:54 (four years ago) link
Yeah the sound of coughing is totally annoying but cynical theories about why it is happening are silly and dumb.
― Evan, Monday, 9 September 2019 16:01 (four years ago) link
― All along there is the sound of feedback (Sund4r), Monday, September 9, 2019 11:48 AM (ten minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
This x1000. If my local orchestra (which is admirably accessible with $20 balcony tix) did some Webern, Schoenberg, or (especially) Penderecki, I'd be overjoyed.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 9 September 2019 16:05 (four years ago) link
Worst thing: how soloists seem to be expected to visibly and theatrically emote far more than section players.
― jmm, Monday, 9 September 2019 16:16 (four years ago) link
the hall is all hushed and everything but isn't the agita re coughing partly because of the belief that this is a space where people can be prodded into leaving for the sake of others? so always in the back of someone's mind when they hear a cougher, they can be thinking, DECORUM REQUIRES YOU TO LEAVE, SIR
― j., Monday, 9 September 2019 16:27 (four years ago) link
Exiting from the middle of a row during a concert clearly less disruptive to fellow audience members than coughing
― All along there is the sound of feedback (Sund4r), Monday, 9 September 2019 16:29 (four years ago) link
Clapping between movements should be universally encouraged. It seems strange to read about certain movements, at their premiere, in history, making such a huge impression on the audience, that the audience demanded an immediate encore performance. How did this happen? I just don't get it. I think it's a modern affectation and one designed to... man, I wish there was a verb that worked here. The same thing that the Catholic church does. Imbues the doctrine with something confusing and demanding in order to keep the congregation off balance, to suggest that there are people in the room more enlightened and decorous than the proles. It feels like that.
― flamboyant goon tie included, Monday, 9 September 2019 17:49 (four years ago) link
It may amuse the court to note that, via mutual friends, I ended up hanging out all day at a spa with an opera singer who has won a couple Grammys.
(she was incredibly nice and chill, and I was very polite, we had a good time comparing notes about playing & preparing for gigs without actually talking about music)
― change display name (Jordan), Wednesday, 25 September 2019 21:43 (four years ago) link
ooh who was it
― brigadier pudding (DJP), Wednesday, 25 September 2019 22:44 (four years ago) link
Rhymes with Masha Mooke
― change display name (Jordan), Wednesday, 25 September 2019 22:51 (four years ago) link