IFILL: Governor?
PALIN: Say it ain’t so, Joe, there you go again pointing backwards again. You preferenced your whole comment with the Bush administration. Now doggone it, let’s look ahead and tell Americans what we have to plan to do for them in the future. You mentioned education and I’m glad you did. I know education you are passionate about with your wife being a teacher for 30 years, and god bless her. Her reward is in heaven, right?
― lex pretend, Friday, 3 October 2008 13:22 (fifteen years ago) link
full transcript at http://aftercancernowwhat.wordpress.com/2008/10/02/biden-palin-vice-presidential-debate-2008-transcript/#more-1806
― lex pretend, Friday, 3 October 2008 13:23 (fifteen years ago) link
and I think the bigger point about Biden's choking up moment was how awkward it was to go back to Palin afterward who didn't acknowledge it. she was clearly tasked with being "friendly" to contrast with how McCain was perceived in the first debate (asking at the beginning if she could call him Joe, running over to shake his hand, etc) but in the heat of the moment when it called for some kind of acknowledgement she went right on in automaton mode and talked about I don't know what. It was like she wasn't even listening
― akm, Friday, 3 October 2008 13:23 (fifteen years ago) link
also @ first instance of nukuler i heard myself scream OH GOD I THOUGHT IT WAS OVER
^^ oh man this.
― flyover statesman (will), Friday, 3 October 2008 13:23 (fifteen years ago) link
Incredible that bit where she claimed a desire for MORE power than Cheney.
Birth of a twittering monster.
― i, grey, Friday, 3 October 2008 13:35 (fifteen years ago) link
PALIN: Say it ain’t so, Joe, there you go again pointing backwards again.
biden not calling her on this is the biggest failure of the night, i think. it so succinctly summarises the republican attempt to ignore their recent record in favour of bland promises of reform and change.
her gall in being the one saying the following was really ridiculous too:
We’re tired of the old politics as usual. And that’s why, with all due respect, I do respect your years in the U.S. Senate, but I think Americans are craving something new and different and that new energy and that new commitment that’s going to come with reform.
I think that’s why we need to send the maverick from the Senate and put him in the White House.
― schlump, Friday, 3 October 2008 13:37 (fifteen years ago) link
Seriously I was kinda surprised he called her on the wonk stuff ("well that was a procedural vote") and not on the narrative stuff.
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 3 October 2008 13:38 (fifteen years ago) link
Disappointed I guess is the word. No big quotables from either one (how I pine for the days of "wanna buy some wood?")
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 3 October 2008 13:40 (fifteen years ago) link
her cynical smirk every time biden talked was infuriating, i was trying not to look at her awful smug face.
― estela, Friday, 3 October 2008 13:41 (fifteen years ago) link
"ALIN: Say it ain’t so, Joe, there you go again pointing backwards again.
biden not calling her on this is the biggest failure of the night, i think."
well he simply said "Past is prologue, right?" which succinctly deflated her entire pointless rant.
― akm, Friday, 3 October 2008 13:45 (fifteen years ago) link
i can't even remember what that "wanna buy some wood" line was about!
i thought both of them played it v defensively/safely, as if they were concentrating more on not screwing up than on attacking, so for palin this meant ignoring the questions to trot out her scripts, and amping up the ridiculous folksiness, while biden seemed to be very numbers and statistics focused. so it meant it was neither game-changing nor particularly entertaining. apart from the "bridge to nowhere" zing!
― lex pretend, Friday, 3 October 2008 13:47 (fifteen years ago) link
Biden's heartfelt choke-up was also nicely timed to distract from him/us thinking "oh crap, did he really say 'just because I'm a man?'"
― nabisco, Friday, 3 October 2008 13:47 (fifteen years ago) link
The Economist had "past is prologue" as the line of the night, although I don't think he delivered it prominently enough.
― caek, Friday, 3 October 2008 13:47 (fifteen years ago) link
no idea but i remember losing my shit at the time xxxp
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 3 October 2008 13:47 (fifteen years ago) link
Lex how in the world can you characterize Palin's position as "defensive?" The main non-platitudinous substance of the "scripts" he had involved challenges on Obama/Biden senate votes, which Biden was left responding to (defense) through about a third of the debate.
― nabisco, Friday, 3 October 2008 13:49 (fifteen years ago) link
P.S. guys it was "I own a timber company? That's news to me. [ten minute pause during which Bush minces around like Bill Cosby thinking up a kicker] Need some wood?"
― nabisco, Friday, 3 October 2008 13:50 (fifteen years ago) link
Yeah, she wasn't on the defensive at all. That would have required improvisation, thinking on her feet and an in-depth knowledge of the issues, none of which she has. Biden got in a lot of free hits as a result.
― caek, Friday, 3 October 2008 13:50 (fifteen years ago) link
fave part - joe kinda snapping after hearing "maverick" for 372nd time of the night and pretty much calling bullshit. loved it!!!
― flyover statesman (will), Friday, 3 October 2008 13:51 (fifteen years ago) link
"safe" rather than defensive then
― lex pretend, Friday, 3 October 2008 13:52 (fifteen years ago) link
Yeah, "safe" is better -- per caek and per earlier predictions, Palin on a scripted attack completely neutralizes her great flaw (apparent inability to discuss knowledgeably in real time). The few times Biden's responses got handed back to her for extra time, she didn't have much beyond repeating the original charge, like "yeah, well, whatever, but that's not how you voted."
― nabisco, Friday, 3 October 2008 13:57 (fifteen years ago) link
ie defensive strategy though not defensive tactics, I'd say.
― anatol_merklich, Friday, 3 October 2008 13:58 (fifteen years ago) link
I was hoping all night that Joe would say something like "Taking on your own party is only admirable if you're on the right side of the issue, and where John has done so he has been wrong."
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 3 October 2008 14:02 (fifteen years ago) link
"Maverick he is not" was a nice zing in that regard, but I wanted not just "he is Bush 2, no maverick" but "he's wrong!"
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 3 October 2008 14:04 (fifteen years ago) link
Look, let's talk about the maverick John McCain is. And again I love him, he's been a maverick on some issues but he's been no maverick on things that a matter people's lives. He voted four out of five times for George Bush's budget which put us half a trillion in debt this year and over three trillion in debt since he got there. He has not been a maverick in providing health care for people. He voted against including another 3.6 million children in coverage of an existing health care plan in the United States Senate. He's not been a maverick when it comes to education. He has not supported tax cuts and significant changes for people being able to send their kids to college, he's not been a maverick on the war, not been a maverick on virtually anything that generally affects the things people really talk about around the kitchen table. Can we get mom's MRI? Can we send Mary back to school next semester? We can't make it. How will we heat the house this winter? He even voted against what they call LIHEAP, for assistance for people with oil prices going through the roof in the winter. So a maverick he is not, on the important critical issues that affect people at the kitchen table.
http://media.tumblr.com/7U8sSHFnvelub9kj3LlbJ8Rqo1_500.jpg
― STINKING CORPSE (cozwn), Friday, 3 October 2008 14:05 (fifteen years ago) link
he's been no maverick on things that a matter people's lives
it's-a me, biden!
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 3 October 2008 14:05 (fifteen years ago) link
Swear to gawd, that and the 2000 "howzit goin', can I help you?" look he gave Gore as Gore tried to be alpha male endeared me to Shrubya for almost one second.
― ☑ (Pleasant Plains), Friday, 3 October 2008 14:06 (fifteen years ago) link
lol juan cole
Not only did she ignore most of Gwen Ifill's questions,she paid no attention to what Joe Biden said. When he choked up over the loss of his family, she did not have the decency to express any kind of condolences. It is almost as though she is autistic and unable to connect with human beings.
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 3 October 2008 14:07 (fifteen years ago) link
http://media.tumblr.com/Avw5u6Rn9elronenzRf3jI6No1_500.jpg
― STINKING CORPSE (cozwn), Friday, 3 October 2008 14:08 (fifteen years ago) link
bahaha excellent
― Office Cat is Eating the Monitor Again (kingfish), Friday, 3 October 2008 14:10 (fifteen years ago) link
juan cole was on point. I mean, i don't know if that registered with anyone else, but she came off like a robot.
― akm, Friday, 3 October 2008 14:11 (fifteen years ago) link
I actually thought Palin was visibly flustered after the Biden choke up thing. It was kind of bizarre, as if she was affected, but didn't want to show any vulnerability and tried to keep going w/out missing a beat (which she didn't). Weird to me was that Biden's choke up thing didnt seem like a huge deal -- he was understandably upset, and had Palin made any kind of concession to feeling his pain or something, and then moved onto whatever agenda she wanted to reinforce, it could have been almost as many points for her as for him.
― Dominique, Friday, 3 October 2008 14:12 (fifteen years ago) link
It was kind of bizarre, as if she was affected, but didn't want to show any vulnerability and tried to keep going w/out missing a beat (which she didn't).
that's how I interpreted it.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Friday, 3 October 2008 14:16 (fifteen years ago) link
reading this mornings analysis around the internet one particularly otm point thats being made is palins over reliance on her script prevented her from rebutting bidens attacks on mccain as forcefully as was prob appropriate - ended up biden got a lot of clean shots in on mccain w/out any push back
― joe six pak (ice crӕm), Friday, 3 October 2008 14:16 (fifteen years ago) link
they really need to release all these tapes, and pronto:
Couric: Could you give me a synonym for evening? Just, perhaps, another word one, in any time zone, in any language, might use to replace the word evening if that was off limits?
Palin: Yes, we Palins love cinnamon, Katie. One of my vices, even though I don’t look rotund, has always been Cinnabon. I celebrate, like a lot of Joe Six-Packers, my anniversary there, and it’s where Bristol and Levi will have a baby shower for little Tonka, whenever the lord decides to bless us with it. Him. Her.
― Maverick (Mr. Que), Friday, 3 October 2008 14:17 (fifteen years ago) link
joe six pack OTMi bet my buddy 3 drinks that she'd have a pre-scripted come-back for the whole spain thing (which there's gotta be some rational explanation for, right?)
― Fetchboy, Friday, 3 October 2008 14:23 (fifteen years ago) link
the spain thing remains a giant mystery that has never been explained by the mccain camp
― akm, Friday, 3 October 2008 14:26 (fifteen years ago) link
but I wanted not just "he is Bush 2, no maverick" but "he's wrong!"
HOOS did you miss the answer w/ Biden's "he is wrong" litany (wrt to the Iraq War)?
also lol @ people wanting to be "entertained" by a political debate
― David R., Friday, 3 October 2008 14:31 (fifteen years ago) link
I thought it came across as unemotional as Dukakis responding to Bernard Shaw's question about raping and killing Kitty Dukakis.
― ☑ (Pleasant Plains), Friday, 3 October 2008 14:32 (fifteen years ago) link
I don't remember it! Will have to skim the transcript. xp
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 3 October 2008 14:35 (fifteen years ago) link
it doesn't come across as well in print, but palin delivering "mccain knows how to win a war!" seemingly in reference to vietnam was amusing
John McCain who knows how to win a war. Who’s been there and he’s faced challenges and he knows what evil is and knows what it takes to overcome the challenges here with our military.
― schlump, Friday, 3 October 2008 14:38 (fifteen years ago) link
― i, grey, Friday, October 3, 2008 8:35 AM (53 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
the thing that struck me was the skyrocketing CNN audience ratings when biden responded to this by talking about how bad cheney's been.
i would love to see the campaign tie THOSE things into the popular distaste for 'big government'
― joe 40oz (deej), Friday, 3 October 2008 14:39 (fifteen years ago) link
― schlump, Friday, October 3, 2008 9:38 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
conservatives have a bizzaro world view of that war fyi
― joe 40oz (deej), Friday, 3 October 2008 14:40 (fifteen years ago) link
don't understand the motivation behind asking this type of question? a vocabulary test? really? that's really gonna rock the neutrals' world
― darraghmac, Friday, 3 October 2008 14:46 (fifteen years ago) link
she was testing palin's vocabulary skills, IMO
― Maverick (Mr. Que), Friday, 3 October 2008 14:47 (fifteen years ago) link
I thought the mccain/spain thing was that he was being questioned about south america by a reporter, and he was taking a hard stance against chavez, etc. then the reporter asked him if he would meet with the PM of spain, and mccain, hearing a spanish-sounding name, thought the reporter was talking about some other random latin american commie so he kept up his hardass pose.
it's kinda hard for the mccain campaign to explain away, except to say "he didn't recognize the name of the PM of spain, dur", which they're not going to do, though obama/biden are making a big enough deal out of it that they may have to now. but they'll just grumble "gotcha msm journalism make life unfair blah blah" and be done with it.
― Edward III, Friday, 3 October 2008 14:47 (fifteen years ago) link
I just have to thank her for pointing out O'Biden's Irish roots.
― Michael White, Friday, 3 October 2008 14:50 (fifteen years ago) link
she also needs to come clean about the time change in Alaska. Couric dances around the subject, but the time change is going to have a big effect if she's VP.
Couric: So what time of day is the evening? What sorts of things might the Governor of Alaska do in the evening?
Palin: That’s something that everyone kind of has their own personal take on that, Katie. I can’t be presumptuous and tell you when the evening is. I know when it takes place personally for me, but because of maritime locales, and what have you, and different clocks, and because all of us individuals find ourselves on different areas of the map from time to time, evening is sort of a relative concept, Katie. I’ve been around enough not to inflict my stance there. That’s up to the states.
― Maverick (Mr. Que), Friday, 3 October 2008 14:52 (fifteen years ago) link
this just reveals the nihilistic depths of my cynicism, but biden getting choked up struck me as a crass bit of political theater. palin didn't do herself any favors by ignoring it, though.
― Edward III, Friday, 3 October 2008 14:53 (fifteen years ago) link