HBO's Succession - Season 2 and Beyond

Connor’s the most obvious representative of the hyper-moneyed class who never needed a particular ethos or organizing principle for their life (because: money) and constantly scrambles to find one because he’s deeply unconfident. But you don’t have to commit to anything or feel a real investment in efforts because, money!

I feel like they’re leaning into that directionless concept in season 2 with Roman attempting to learn the company

connor roy was interested in politics from a very young age

https://i.imgur.com/6wyaXiD.jpg

I'm kind of worried about his paid consort

we need a running tally of every time someone in the family treats a normal person like garbage, only to have a scene where one of their handlers is seen giving an envelope of money in return for a NDA signature in the background

another great episode goddamn. the cousin greg bit at the end was the cherry on top.

speaking of cherries, cherry jones was awesome, hopefully she wasn't just a one-off.

the maid shooting a knowing look at Kendall as he wandered by in the morning might be first first no-payoff-envelope scene where the whole family was present, but given the circumstances that probably isn't foreshadowing?

I think you mean cousin Gregory

yes, my apologies to the honorable gregory

Overjoyed to discover that hyper-decanting is actually real.

Are you an actress or a poetess or something

endless quotable episode but i partic liked
SPINNIE SPINNIE CHICKEN DINNIE

also "i think maybe the morgue is closing for the night"

i love this show but also i wonder if there's an audience of MBA dudes who view it as aspirational (a la Wall Street)

i mean when logan said "you want to hear my favorite shakespeare quote? take the fucking money" i was like "whoa badass" for a second

the pearce family are awful

Oh wow Shiv fucked it. I think the one to watch now is probably Roman? In that he's actually doing the stuff that Shiv was too impatient to bother with, and if there's anyone to have as any ally/mentor it's probably Geri (leaving aside the deeply weird nature of that alliance).

Love how Kendall literally shat the bed and was the one who actually secured the crucial vote in the process.

but ultimately did shiv fuck it? was logan really going to name her as his successor? it feels like he has no intention to ever name anyone and is just toying with all of them like he has done through their whole lives. they're all going to get their turn as "front runner" (except connor probably) but he's never going to hand it over. that felt like the root of him being so obstinate in the pierce negotiations rather than him getting revenge on shiv.

love how logan always calls roman 'romulus,' maybe he is planning to make him king after all

appointing an heir is the one thing Logan has absolutely no certainty about

Shiv's the most competent but ideologically off. bringing her in is a test to see if she'd run things in a way he could reconcile with his ideas

Kendall's thirsty and can be ruthless but previously wanted it without his dad's blessing, and he's just too fucked up at this point. could see him being cultivated as a choice now that he's in-house, but he's too cowed to be really respected

Roman's the wild card. could be good, has no focus or seriousness and has all the mental baggage of growing up moneyed but, luckily, not purely hungry for power

I dunno I got the sense Logan was sincere about Shiv at first and then promptly regretted it, it was less a matter of ideology and more down to her impatience, reluctance to do the management training course and general bad judgement.

He's going to end up leaving everything to Greg.

otm

He's going to end up leaving everything to Greg.

*Gregory

Greg the Egg.

gregory the eggory*

Intrigued by what was going on with Marcia in that last episode though.

xpost YES.

Episode 5 is a masterpiece.

My money's on Greg(ory) as well. I'd like a Greg only bottle episode.

the entire cringe-worthy panel discussion with the siblings tripping over each other was exactly what the family and we, the viewers, deserved

we hear for you!

no no no
we HERE for you
loved the various people around greg(ory) cracking up at that

you doing the old cocaine?

the relationship between mole woman and rock star has become one of the many (highlights) of this show
"i have thoughts, but go on"

https://www.vulture.com/2019/09/succession-season-2-cherry-jones-interview.html

Because it’s Succession, when I read the script I thought, “There is no one in this episode who is noble.”

Logan practically chasing down the car was the most pathetic moment showing that he's a big old weak narcissist under all that projected self-confidence and braggadocio

Season 1 felt way too caricatured for me, with characters not really going beyond their tics — Roman will approach a buffet, take a bite of something and put the rest back, and so on; Greg will raise the last word of every sentence. Costumes were fantastic, though.

But now season 2 (just watched it all up to now this weekend), and it’s a much better show. The characters are getting shaken out of their easy mannerisms, and just in general it feels a little more credible. And putting the Roys against the old-school Ivy League elite is really satisfying.

Ugh, and just after writing that, this episode goes back to Season 1 shallowness, taking away Holly Hunter character’s nuances and sophistication and the whole thing has a kind of BFA-LaBute-protege approach to sex and unoriginal swearing.

counterpoint: i really enjoy seeing Holly Hunter on television doing anything

Hard to see her have to deliver lines like “Kendall now has a bigger diaper to shit in” after a few episodes that work hard to credibly establish her tight-lipped New England manner...

I get the feeling that the character is purposefully chameleon-like and it was the Pierces who were tight-lipped New Englanders

and that she's playing for whoever is paying the bill? that was my takeaway as well. Unless the Pierce's are playing the tune and this is a long con...

upon reflection though I would agree this was not a strongly written episode.

ROY
CUNT

good to see 'cunt as a term of endearment' is now part of scotland's international brand

last two have been a bit bumpy and not as finely wrought tbh; hoping the ship rights itself tonight.

lol we’re really into “uhh pedo guy was a fun insult in south africa when I was a kid” territory here with uncle mo

and this situation with roman is somehow going... worse!

“Rights the ship”??? This is clearly another classic season plz

yes - it bangs

You can’t make a Tomelette without breaking a few Gregs.

fantastic episode last night. though odd that none of the roy children fucked anything up for once.

https://i.imgur.com/BY46GXu.gif

I don't think the kids are fools! They all (except Connor) change and develop throughout the four seasons -- becoming more self-reflective, developing their moral compasses -- even Roman! Ultimately they don't get their shit together, because the totality of their upbringing has been too traumatic -- but they do all experience interesting internal struggles. Drama!!! I don't see how it's possible to watch all four seasons and still think they're unthinking comedy idiots.

(In the same way that e.g. Mark and Jeremy from Peep Show never change.)

funeral episode is prob the most humanizing for everyone aside from their hangout in the last episode. makes sense ppl who watch this show thinking the mains are stupid depthless assholes wouldn’t like it i guess. but i think the kids have tremendous depth, an endless well just in their relationship with their dad. think about roman losing it at the podium constantly. he pre-grieved

They're idiots but I mean fools in the sense that there was never a way the series ends with any of them attaining their father's love or his power - or escaping it. That could make them doomed tragic figures, but they're ridiculous and that's played for laughs for 90% of the episodes. (And a good tragic figure has some dimensionality to them - some part that could bloom if they weren't doomed.)

I don't know about developing moral compasses - given the chance, Kendall and Roman revert directly to who they were in episode 1 (though Roman's a walking 4Chan meme instead of a guy who emotionally abuses the children of manual laborers). Given an inability to either change or win, their dramatic arcs are just flat. And they're dummies so when they were arguing in a conference room about Trump vs. Gore it was just a snooze.

(And a good tragic figure has some dimensionality to them - some part that could bloom if they weren't doomed.)

that’s the show tho!!!!

Seriously

I think they consistently show an ability to change and win, but self-sabotage gets in the way of the former, and cruel Thomas Hardyesque fate gets in the way of the latter.

I didn't find the last episode very satisfying - for me, it wasn't like something that organically clicked into place, it was more like Jesse Armstrong thinking "hmmm, unhappy ending, bittersweet ending or happy ending? let's go with unhappy". But that's about the sometimes heavy-handed plotting, not the characters/performances.

We're currently hovering somewhere in the third season. We just saw the shareholders meeting episode, which is as close as this show has come to "Veep."

Just finished the show. Nothing new to add but fuck what a ride. As ever, having this thread on hand to read after was total gold.

Goes without saying but gyac, ivy & vege otm all the way through.

:D

Thinking today about how *right* the ending was - how it grounded and gave legitimacy to the entire series. It *had* to be about character in the end, and particularly about the compulsion to repeat. In a weird way, it could have ended at almost any point because nothing is going to change. The whole is in every part. These people are trapped in a hell of traumatic relationships - to power, to parents, to each other - that anything other than a character-driven finale (and such a bleak one) would have been a lie.

otm

"I was reading Mies Van Der Rohe At Work by Peter Carter and there is a quote by Van Der Rohe where he says: "A Sugarbaker never gives in". I think about that a lot." (6)

(6) Mr. Strong is actually paraphrasing a line given by Delta Burke's character Suzanne Sugarbaker in the CBS television series Designing Women and written by series creator Susan Bloodworth-Thomason in the season 2 episode "High Rollers". The full quote as spoken by Ms. Burke is "A Sugarbaker will never give in."

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/03/10/magazine/jeremy-strong-interview.html

I think he's pretty self aware when he talks about how empty he is--he's a walking Bartlett's dictionary of quotes. Good profile

Finally finished this. Objectively well written and acted, subjectively mostly good. Kind of like a cross between "Godfather Part II" and "Entourage."