no boys allowed in the room!!!!

it's amazing how as a kid I knew NONE of these wonderful things about her
how would you have known? you were a wee tot! preschool was one of the times i remember being happiest as a child. also lonely when i was the last one to get picked up but overall i liked it.

it's bringing up a lot of old, raw, painful memories of how it was
yeah i know what you mean -- i was thinking about the name situation* and wondering if you were handling it ok.

i am not not trans and i feel the old raw feelings from time to time too -- i imagine it's how my mom felt when she saw me unapologetically enjoying liberties she never had. she was never bitter or mean about it, but there was a lot of "are you sure?" even innocuous-seeming stuff like, for example, taking cute pictures of myself all the way to the ability to tell people who don't approve of/like me to fuck off. i was taught to appease when possible, avoid if necessary, and if it gets bad, just disappear.

it's making me want to dig out the poloroids i took of myself in my 20s. i was confused about what my face looked like so i took zillions of photos of myself to try to get an objective perspective. they're not risque in any way but i was definitely trying to look cute! maybe it's safe to share them now...maybe not. in the back of my mind, i feel the encroachment of unwanted attention and NOOOOOOOO THEY WILL ATTACK YOU and i think twice. it's not that i begrudge anyone the ability to take and share pictures of themselves -- i love it -- i wish i could have it too but they will need to be old photos bc i'm not as cute anymore ;) i held back so much of myself because i was terrified of being attacked and it's painful to think about the me that could have been, however fruitless those thoughts might be. i really really really try not to think about it. my life has been ok, and it could have been better but it's alright.

*I think you know what I mean and I don't want to deadname anyone. i know it was very hard for you and i understand why you might feel the way you do. being gracious about it is the only way but that doesn't make it hurt less <3 memories of the bad times have not faded in my mind, fwiw

It's a little bit awkward because it is a part-public conversation and there is part of this going on outside the public boards. Speaking only for myself I think it was necessary for me to have that space to work through things but at the same time most of the people I know here as out weren't part of that space. Now that I am Out I feel more comfortable talking about these things on public boards...

I do try to focus on the positive. There's a lot of bad shit I've been through and all the stuff that people coming out today are afraid of, it's stuff that I've been through and that's still something they are at risk for today. I tried to come out 20 years ago and it was really, really bad. I couldn't do it, I couldn't go through with it, and there was a pretty high price I paid for that.

Every trans person paid that price but those who paid it by coming out, I feel they have the better portion, because going through that rejection and suffering actually made the world a better place, whereas I didn't do shit to make things better by scampering back into the closet. At this point I don't feel guilt or shame for that, but I am immensely proud of every single goddamn person who came out before me, and I owe a debt of gratitude to all of them. Including you, Branwell.

And I am sorry for what you're going through. I know how triggers work. I wasn't present on ILX now the way I was back in the times you talk about. That said, I am vaguely aware of your deadname and the issues you went through with it and, uh, I am 100% positive that the person who came out as your deadname, the fact that their name is the same as your deadname is a complete coincidence. They don't want to cause you hurt or pain and feel absolutely terrible about doing so.

i held back so much of myself because i was terrified of being attacked and it's painful to think about the me that could have been, however fruitless those thoughts might be. i really really really try not to think about it. my life has been ok, and it could have been better but it's alright.

It's kinda the only way to deal, to move forward. I feel like I have so many lost years, as a person, because I spent about a decade trying to be "bulletproof" and some sort of "pillar of the community" (whatever that really means) which entailed a lot of self-denial and labyrinthine boundaries for any doubts, fear, or vulnerability (which I associated with being feminine), but like a pillar, being solid and stable and intimidating when needed.

I actually had a fairly mundane, but actually super positive, thing happen for me at work the other day -- I'll avoid all the boring (or at least complicated) details, but it was basically, something that I had associated with one of my greatest failures and traumatic life events -- I engaged with that thing and helped a few other people successfully (at least for now) deal with said thing.

Oh man, I was in such a Bad Place before I went to Vienna, on so many levels. Thanks for listening to me, and not being judgemental. I just had to get that stuff out, and I didn't know where else. One doesn't want to dwell on trauma or pain or bad stuff - but at the same time, sometimes, you just need someone else to acknowledge that the bad stuff did *happen*, in order to move past it and go on. I am in a much better place now, than a few weeks ago, for many reasons - including that acknowledgement.

Vienna was... a lot. Wow. Stendahl Syndrome is real, people!

Anyway, on another subject, this looks like it might be an interesting book, and I have ordered it:

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/sep/02/why-dont-doctors-trust-women-because-they-dont-know-much-about-us

I mean, I don't want to be that person that always focuses on pain, but I learned so much on this thread, about physical aspects of AFAB-related body pain I had not seen or read about anywhere else, and also started seeing discourse around *why* so much of AFAB-related pain just wasn't taken seriously. Maybe it would be interesting to other people here?

Would there be any interest at all, in maybe doing a No-Boys-Thread Reading Group? Doesn't have to be this book (I was thinking about how I thought a lot of ppl here would benefit from reading Kate Mann's Down Girl, too) but after starting my own Queer Theory reading group, I've suddenly discovered that I really love reading groups? Anyone else interested? Or even suggestions of other books to read?

Totally understand where you're coming from, Branwell, and WB. "Down Girl" has been on my "to read" list since you mentioned it... it's a long list though :(

One of the greatest things about reading groups is that they focus you to sit down and read the stuff you've been meaning to!

But I'm not really hearing a lot of enthusiasm around this idea, so oh well. It was only an idea.

I love reading groups but the woman participation on ilx is so sporadic and sparse that it probably would not be sustainable. I miss a lot of my book clubs that died off after a couple of months.

Hi, Branwell! I love that you suggested it but I'm a terrible book club participant bc I never do the assigned reading! Also I exclusively read women-centric/women-authored sci-fi/fantasy so I never get around to non-fic which is what I really need to read for my political education. Alas.

Sorry for not being able to jump in. Also, tbh the new school I work at is pretty strict and since I'm on a track-able internet connection, I've almost stopped being on ilx at all. It's weird, but probably professionally healthy.

Hi, Branwell! I love that you suggested it but I'm a terrible book club participant bc I never do the assigned reading!

I echo this ... I also have a backlog of reading I need to do for professional education/certification that I've been putting off

i am useless when it comes to accepting more responsibilities right now -- i would do a reading group irl because i like hanging w people irl but that's where my commitment ends considering my current work/music/domestic/self-care responsibilities.

it's a pleasant idea to imagine hanging w y'all and talking irl :)

lol I literally run my own book group irl and we haven’t had a meeting in months. It’s really hard and it takes a lot of effort on my part to keep trying to get people together, consensus on a book & then even meet so don’t feel bad about it.

I am trying to get back into reading though, but I’m so out of it - I think I pretty much only read articles atm but I’m fairly starved on fiction and I haven’t read any guilty pleasure stuff in ages.

ha i meant i would do a reading group irl if i didn't have to do the cattle herding! no way

I have spent many years as a professional cat herder and am now semi-retired

Oh good I'm not the only one who sucks at book clubs, I thought it was just me. Every time I'm in a book club I forget to read the assigned reading and then just try and bullshit my way through the discussion and feel guilty about it afterwards.

Aw, so I'm the loser who is never ever busy and has nothing but time and has always done the reading because I have cleared my schedule essentially forever to make space for more reading!

I pretty much refuse to do cat herding. The reading group is the first Sunday of every month because we tried for a couple of months to work around people's schedules and it just didn't work. But it's absolutely fine for people to miss a month and pick back up when they are able.

We also made a decision when we started, to do essays rather than full books, so it would be easier to dip in and out. But it's only been going since the start of this year, so I've no idea if it's sustainable. We don't have to 'agree' on pieces, either. We go round the group and everyone picks, and it's fine to read stuff we disagree with - it's actually more fun sometimes when someone picks an essay that there isn't a consensus on!

Branwell I can't let you calling yourself a loser pass without making a sad face. You are not a loser, you are an awesome person and your priorities are good ones. Your book club sounds cool and I wish I was able to commit to it.

there's definitely cultural baggage and stereotypes that would make Branwell feel like "the loser" though ... "the nerdy girl who has no life" is definitely one of those stereotypes I remember growing up because it was how I was certain other people perceived me.

I was not entirely serious in my pity party! Forgot that British sarcasm doesn't always translate. (Books are way better than ppl to be honest. (Only half joking there?))

((I've just spent all afternoon at a picnic, which was wonderful, and it was great to see so many of my friends, but also completely exhausting and I really long for the company of a nice quiet book now.))

Oh, in case I wasn't clear, the reading group I was talking about in my post there was the queer theory reading group I run in London. Obviously an internet reading group would have had to be run quite differently. (If anyone is queer, and in London, and interested in attending, message me, but I think that's kind of a niche group.)

Thanks for the cheerups tho! That's really sweet. :)

I hate that stereotype so much xpost. I have one friend that *still* tries to make me feel bad about not wanting to go out. It's done jokingly but it's been so repetitive over the years that I just shut him out right away because I was getting angry about feeling forced into doing something I didn't want to do. I like to hang out by myself; people are generally too exhausting. I was talking to my FIL once about how my spouse is always nice to be around because he's always calm and my FIL said "oh, he's super good for loners because he will sit there quietly for hours."

Oh good it's my turn to steamroll over someone else's joke :) Mostly I think this comes from my experiences with self-deprecation, particularly as practiced by people who aren't cis male. I see it a lot and it's something I pretty much always want to push back against even at the cost of feeling like a pedant.

idk often when I make self-deprecating jokes, I am only partially kidding and partially serious

Just bumping for something utterly trivial: after years of searching, I think NYX’s #thisiseverything lip balm might be the best one I’ve ever used? Lips stay soft and smooth long after it’s worn off as well. This sounds like an ad but honestly, if something works it works.

That’s good to know! My homemade lip balm was ok but actually not that great in usage aside from the satisfaction of having made it.

I’m here to complain about pms again. Has anyone ever used any successful treatment for PMDD? I’m SO TIRED of losing my shit for 12/52 weeks of every year.

have you talked to a dr about meds? My PMS got better with Celexa and the Mirena IUD.

I recently worked with several women that were perimenopausal. They were all cutting out sugar, caffeine, carbs to help, although it's likely they were taking some meds too. About half of my periods are super bad but only for a day or two, not wanting to leave the house, being non verbal, nausea, bad lower back pain. I probably should cut out the coffee and sugar again. I remember when I did that once for several years my pms and periods were so easy but I was also younger. I haven't taken any medication (besides for asthma) or bc probably since my early 20s. I almost got mirena but then i think I got spooked that it was supposedly more painful for women who hadn't given birth.

yeah i have been through the IUD considerations and came out on the "no" end so that is not an option.

the main symptoms i am hoping to avoid are emotional; i exercise regularly and have a wholesome diet, have been sleeping better and generally am ok but for 1/4 of every month i turn into a different person, a very depressed and short-tempered one, and one that feels unmoored. i remember reading about dysphoria when i was a teen and really relating.then i went on hbc for like 20 years and it must have helped. then i stopped taking it. i guess i should talk to my doc. sigh. it looks like meds are the only actual treatment. i don't think cutting xyz out of my diet is going to solve this problem.

i wish there were some magical glasses i could wear that would help me cut through the fog and help me see clearly during these times. magic glasses that can see inside my head and also outside my head. and then when people see the glasses, they would automatically treat me just a little bit more kindly because they know i am a little blind at the moment and having trouble seeing clearly.

Do you track your periods? It doesn’t treat any symptoms but it sometimes helps knowing my feelings and reactions on the days before are probably linked to it.

yeah i have been tracking. tbh it doesn't change anything -- there is a series of steps that repeat. some months are worse than others but the process and anticipation are the same.

I don’t know much about it or how scientifically legit it is, but I’ve come across PMS stuff that involves evening primrose oil, pumpkin and sunflower seeds, other ways of supposedly managing hormones “naturally”.

Tbh you’re doing everything else right, so meds are probably your last option. Celexa has been v low impact for me in terms of side effects.

Good to know! Thank you -- I think nuts and berries and ointments and elixirs and seeds and oils are very good for me psychologically because using/eating/making them helps me feel like I am doing something to at least be aware that I need something; it doesn't make anything better inside my head where the real stench is coming from is unfortch

i wish there were some magical glasses i could wear that would help me cut through the fog and help me see clearly during these times. magic glasses that can see inside my head and also outside my head.

it took me about 13 years from when I realized I suffered from "mental health problems" to actually going on medication for said problems, so I can relate, even though it's a different context. ... I think what I take for anxiety is also prescribed for bad PMS/menstrual stuff

i wish there were some magical glasses i could wear that would help me cut through the fog and help me see clearly during these times. magic glasses that can see inside my head and also outside my head. and then when people see the glasses, they would automatically treat me just a little bit more kindly because they know i am a little blind at the moment and having trouble seeing clearly.

― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Tuesday, September 24, 2019 2:06 PM

Oh man, I would fully support these Dysphoria Glasses and ask when they will be available on the NHS. This would be such a good idea, both ways round.

Not just for PMT, but also for Really Bad Autism Days. Like, most days, I can mask pretty effectively and function and get on with life. But if I haven't slept, or I'm slightly ill, my executive function goes out the window and takes everything with it. I've got pretty good at reframing 'everything has gone to absolute fujcking shit and I'm shouting at birds' as 'is this a RBAD?' and getting out before the meltdown. But I could really do with some sign to those around me, that this is what is happening. Like, I use a cane on the days that my back is really bothering me, to signal 'yes, I do need you to offer me a seat'.

Also, it would be helpful, leaning to interact with other people. Being autistic, reading other people's moods and motivations is the hardest thing! If someone would be wearing the Dysphoria Glasses, it would be a sign to people like me, who struggle to *read* what is going on, "oh, this person is In A Bad Place, give them some space" - to understand *that* is what is going on, not "this person is unpredictable, dangerous, possibly abusive".

Not that I'm even remotely suggesting you're anywhere near the latter, LL!

But so much of therapy (for me) was learning to see red flags and warning signs and learning how to protect myself. Problem is, my warning-sign-detectors are now probably set a little too high. Dysphoria Glasses would be a lot easier to distinguish from red flag suits!

This has got to be the ultimate first-world problem. But how am I both perimenopausal (probably) AND treating and being treated by a (supposedly) adult man like we're both inexperienced teenagers? I've seen that man Nick at the fitness center the last two times I went, but he wouldn't come close enough to say anything. I was going to try to invite him to a film screening this weekend, but....

If you're reading this, please tell me you laughed. I'm tired of framing this whole situation in the language of an overemotional adolescent.

I did smile. It’s good to know it never ever changes, though. That’s reassuring.

Reassuring is not the term I would use. I don't remember, as a teenager, thinking about what life at my current age would be like. But I sure wouldn't have anticipated the same "But does he LIKE like me? And do I really LIKE like him?" deadlock.

But if you remember being a teenager you probably thought that everyone who was an adult had their shit together and when you actually get there and find out people don’t...I mean, it’s a better feeling than thinking you’re the only one.

I don't remember, as a teenager, thinking about what life at my current age would be like. But I sure wouldn't have anticipated the same "But does he LIKE like me? And do I really LIKE like him?" deadlock.

As a teenager, I thought I would be dead by now ... or happily married, so I definitely didn't anticipate that ... yeah, it's absurd, I have very recently been there. I would want to reassure my teenage self that I now live in a cool city, so I'm not stuck in a small town with a depressingly limited pool of boys to think that about, while simultaneously thinking, "Why are guys all so stupid?"

still though ... even with a much larger selection of "eligible males" + the internet, I still often think, "Why are guys all so stupid?"

at least you don't have to wait until after 9pm to make phone calls to people you like.

at least you don't have to wait until after 9pm to make phone calls to people you like.

― Yerac, Tuesday, October 8, 2019 12:33 PM (five minutes ago

omg, it's kinda like that though! Like there is this *thing* where you are supposed to ask ppl if you can call them (and vice versa).

the same "But does he LIKE like me? And do I really LIKE like him?" deadlock.

Oh man, try this, but with added extra "but is she/they gay? bi-curious? heteroflexible? are they even attracted to my gender in the first place? Wait, remind me again, what gender does she believe I even am?"

It's funny how everyone tries to reassure you, you know, when you're a teenager everything seems so complicated, but it gets simpler? It doesn't. It's simple when you're a teenager. It gets way way more complicated when you're older.

well it was simple for me when i was a teenager because i hated myself, thought i was a grotesque freak, and was too scared to talk to anybody!

Now when did I last feel that way? Oh yeah, this morning.

stuck in a small town with a depressingly limited pool of boys to think that about, while simultaneously thinking, "Why are guys all so stupid?"

lol HARD SAME. Plus being trained in a religion that specified that not only was I supposed to find one of these idiots attractive, but I was going to have to be subservient to him as the master of the household. Put me right off marriage, I'll tell you that.

And to think people used to ask me why I didn't date in school or college.

La Lechera, have you considered taking birth control pills continuously to skip your period? This was suggested to me, though I did not do it.

i have recently reconsidered going back on HBC. i took bc pills for most of my menstruating years and going off them was not good; they also gave me migraines. still maybe that is better than what i have been experiencing? it has been almost a decade since i tried that, maybe my situation is different now.

also otm about hometown slim pickins -- i'm not interested in revisiting my adolescent years in no small part because the pool of options i had was small and, as it turns out, quite bad.

meanwhile, I've been single for almost exactly 10 years now, and I am more or less okay with it ... at least, the cultural and psychological pressure to be partnered is mostly gone. I realized, after talking to a female friend who is in therapy for this, that I have a history of "codependency issues" ... it's like I have a tendency to turn into this other person when I am in a relationship or crushing super hard. This other person is generally a lot nicer and sweeter than "the real me" but the fact that somehow my self-esteem and a lot of my identity suddenly is dependent on what the partner/crush thinks of me and thinks about "things" ... it's scary as fuck.