What's behind the HS2 review announcement? Farage want's it scrapped so I feel it must probably be good, otoh it's a fuck of a lot of money to spend to get to Crewe a bit quicker, otoh I was looking forward to Curzon Station rising from the dead, otoh what about all the trees they're cutting down (have already cut down, I believe in some cases...)?
― Ned Trifle X, Wednesday, 21 August 2019 11:46 (four years ago) link
Shoring up Tory seats in the chilterns.
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Wednesday, 21 August 2019 11:51 (four years ago) link
I think the economic benefits of fast as fuck trains will be minimal, but at least you'll be able to fly past all these barren dead places with murderous hordes of barbarians hunting for human flesh.
― calzino, Wednesday, 21 August 2019 11:55 (four years ago) link
I think for lots of Tories it’s a byword for government infrastructure spending?
― Bidh boladh a' mhairbh de 'n láimh fhalaimh (dowd), Wednesday, 21 August 2019 11:55 (four years ago) link
It's spending that spoils their view
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 21 August 2019 12:05 (four years ago) link
Btw this is everything:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/aug/21/eu-to-blame-football-new-handball-rule-ian-holloway
The benefit is not necessarily in the speed but in the capacity, the north south rail lines are pretty much full. Once your building a new line you might as well build a fast one even though the the distances to Manchester and Birmingham aren’t far enough to get more than marginal benefit out of high speed.
The problem the Tories have is that it runs through their heartland and offer no benefit to the people living there.
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Wednesday, 21 August 2019 12:08 (four years ago) link
Holloway sucks even more shit than Warnock and Souness combined, there won't be a big enough pit for all the enemies of the people from the football world.
― calzino, Wednesday, 21 August 2019 12:15 (four years ago) link
This unstable combination of whingeing victimhood twinned with pompous self-regard
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 21 August 2019 12:18 (four years ago) link
The short version of that is that Ireland won't be quite as fucked by No Deal as the UK thinks it will be.
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 21 August 2019 12:20 (four years ago) link
you need g-search the title of the FT piece to read it - they are usually link-walled.
― calzino, Wednesday, 21 August 2019 12:22 (four years ago) link
I know, but I don't get the sense that for anybody here this place accounts for the majority of discussion they have about this
*Raises hand*
I mean, I have wider sources of information for sure, but I don't engage in those places because generally people are saying the same things that I feel but put better (see: this sentence).
If I engage (read: squabble) more here it's because the idea that those that are pro-EU are implacably opposed to the "social ideal that puts the welfare of most people ahead of the wealth hoarding ability of a tiny elite of the super-rich" is just completely alien to anything I experience elsewhere.
having an outlet to clown on the latest Jess Phillips/Stephen Kinnock/Change UK bullshit also a bonus.
This should be on the NHS.
― Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 21 August 2019 12:24 (four years ago) link
In 1953, when Winston Churchill was prime minister for the last time, 91 per cent of Irish exports went to the UK. Today, that figure is 11 per cent and falling. Far from being the poor, dependent outpost relying on British largesse — as depicted by Brexiters — the Republic of Ireland is an outward-looking, dynamic, trading entrepot. Today, Irish firms in the UK employ more people than UK firms in Ireland.
suck it you deluded fucks!
― calzino, Wednesday, 21 August 2019 12:24 (four years ago) link
Look along with a moratorium on MLC “writing” can we please please agree to stop writing about people itt as somehow opposed to the EU when they merely have views on how shit the Remain campaign is, how the EU is bad for letting refugees drown en masse, and how EU post-crash austerity was damaging to loads of EU citizens? Thanks.
― gyac, Wednesday, 21 August 2019 12:39 (four years ago) link
It's not the place that accounts for the majority of my discussion, but it's the majority of my discussion with people I (somewhat) agree with.
― Bidh boladh a' mhairbh de 'n láimh fhalaimh (dowd), Wednesday, 21 August 2019 12:43 (four years ago) link
Btw this was a good piece on HS2: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/hs2-logistics-financial-benefit-controversy-a8937936.html
― gyac, Wednesday, 21 August 2019 12:45 (four years ago) link
Hear, hear. Not to mention the notion that Brussels is hegemonic enough to have a forcefully effective bearing on the neo-fascist and/or aggressively neo-liberal policies pursued by certain member states is… oddly optimistic? Germany is not Italy is not Hungary is not Spain is not Ireland is not…
Btw, this place does account for 99% of my exchanges about British politics. I haven't been in the UK for very long and am not close enough to the rare acquaintances I've made irl to shoot the shit on a regular basis.
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 21 August 2019 12:49 (four years ago) link
Gyac OTM, it's amazing how people seem still to be of that opinion despite the fact that these threads have had both 'Brexit' and 'we're all gonna die' in the title for like a year.
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 21 August 2019 12:58 (four years ago) link
Ah now come on, there's definitely a caricature of the pro-EU, FBPE, EU-flag facepaint thrown around here a lot. Which apart from the politics projected on to them, doesn't seem to ever reflect the chance that they are non-UK Europeans trapped in this hellscape.
― Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 21 August 2019 13:03 (four years ago) link
you see it all the time in the media too where people (remainders) who think we should probably respect the result of referenda are caricatured as brexiteers or “pro” brexit
― самокритика me, daddy (||||||||), Wednesday, 21 August 2019 13:04 (four years ago) link
remainers*
in other news I have just heard “if there’s an NDB, it will all be ireland’s fault” in the wild
― самокритика me, daddy (||||||||), Wednesday, 21 August 2019 13:05 (four years ago) link
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 21 August 2019 12:20 (forty-six minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
i mean over here anyone i see drumming for panic for anything except the border/GFA i start looking for their angle (y2k style)
we'll be fine
― phil neville jacket (darraghmac), Wednesday, 21 August 2019 13:11 (four years ago) link
Ah now come on, there's definitely a caricature of the pro-EU, FBPE, EU-flag facepaint thrown around here a lot. and membership of the EU are not the same thing
The former are middling at wanting to score a goal but poor at scoring a goal
(middling because too much of it is identity politics and its counter-productive)
― anvil, Wednesday, 21 August 2019 13:31 (four years ago) link
No one believes anyone here is one of those caricatures, we don't need to go all Not All Remainers here.
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 21 August 2019 13:33 (four years ago) link
I'm sure Altidore wanted to score but who would want him in their team
― anvil, Wednesday, 21 August 2019 13:34 (four years ago) link
Which apart from the politics projected on to them, doesn't seem to ever reflect the chance that they are non-UK Europeans trapped in this hellscape.
― gyac, Wednesday, 21 August 2019 13:37 (four years ago) link
Poor Andrew and Pom they are not getting a fair hearing on this thread. So unfair.
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 21 August 2019 13:53 (four years ago) link
Has it ever occurred to you... that you might be a bit of a bully?
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 21 August 2019 13:58 (four years ago) link
For comrade alphabet to be a bully, he would first have to be generally taken seriously.
― Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 21 August 2019 13:59 (four years ago) link
Is that a requirement for a bully? I see, interesting..
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 21 August 2019 14:01 (four years ago) link
I am against HS2.
As has often been said by many, money could be spent on better transport on many existing lines across Britain. Add buses to that if you like.
― the pinefox, Wednesday, 21 August 2019 14:07 (four years ago) link
HS2 will improve transport on existing lines, in that you won't have fast services and stopping services continually getting in each other's way, plus vastly improved capacity.
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 21 August 2019 14:10 (four years ago) link
I'm fine with anything that dumps a tonne of money into transport infrastructure, but that kind of investment makes much more sense without shareholders to pay
― plax (ico), Wednesday, 21 August 2019 14:20 (four years ago) link
Sorry for obvious point
Hold your breath for my riveting observations about how low investment shrinks economies and other Keynes 101 favourites
― plax (ico), Wednesday, 21 August 2019 14:22 (four years ago) link
Sat on a clunky pacer train with a leaking septic tank, sputtering along between Morley and Batley really feeds one's visionary neo-vorticist inclinations. Nah.... Fuck ya HS2!
― calzino, Wednesday, 21 August 2019 14:27 (four years ago) link
It's not like hs2 qualifies as a vanity project like a bridge nobody can use or a sixth airport for London.
― plax (ico), Wednesday, 21 August 2019 14:29 (four years ago) link
Also, the UK needs more and better trail links. I realise this needs a much more nuanced cost benefit analysis but has anybody every been on the M25
― plax (ico), Wednesday, 21 August 2019 14:31 (four years ago) link
Where it passes through the Tory shires I'd advocate breaking the budget to route it as to piss off as many rich nimbys as possible.
― calzino, Wednesday, 21 August 2019 14:35 (four years ago) link
Add slurry spreaders as a sweetener for the farmers!
― Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 21 August 2019 14:37 (four years ago) link
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/business/brexit/phil-hogan-launches-scathing-attack-on-boris-johnson-unelected-pm-gambling-with-the-peace-process-38422925.html
― plax (ico), Wednesday, 21 August 2019 14:40 (four years ago) link
Irish politicians have been so polite for so long about England that these headlines feel weird. It was only a couple of years ago that dim aunties were feeling smug about how civilized everyone was about the queen coming.
― plax (ico), Wednesday, 21 August 2019 14:43 (four years ago) link
Unfortunately there's no attack on Johnson re: Ireland that'll have any impact on his base, quite the opposite
― what's wrong with being centre-y? (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 21 August 2019 14:44 (four years ago) link
Sure, but it really takes a lot to get the hackles of the Irish middle classes up about this nowadays, there has been a real effort to *put all that behind us,* so the recent radicalisation of fine gaelers has been some doing.
― plax (ico), Wednesday, 21 August 2019 14:47 (four years ago) link
Like this is mobilising a real shift in sentiment.
― plax (ico), Wednesday, 21 August 2019 14:48 (four years ago) link
xxp ikr? And under a blueshirt government too. It’s a long time since Leo talking about Love Actually in No 10.
― gyac, Wednesday, 21 August 2019 14:49 (four years ago) link
"However, in the event of a no deal Brexit, the UK government’s only Churchilian legacy will be –‘never have so few done so much damage to so many’."
― gyac, Wednesday, 21 August 2019 14:51 (four years ago) link
British tories just... aren't aware that fine gael, and their supporters, even exist. All Irish governments might just as well be sinn fein to them.
― Aston "Family Court" Barrett (Bananaman Begins), Wednesday, 21 August 2019 14:54 (four years ago) link
ikr? And under a blueshirt government too. It’s a long time since Leo talking about Love Actually in No 10.
― gyac, Wednesday, 21 August 2019 14:49 (four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
yeah, i mean idk if the lads know about how much fg love them but its important context historically
remember how giggly homer j bruton got about meeting the queen or am i jumbling memories together
xp its delicious context, on a local level. leo couldnt be much more
blairite, or does it map? soft tory? i dunno does it map.
anyway. FG <3 the brits. FF/SF would already have carried out black flag attacks imo
― phil neville jacket (darraghmac), Wednesday, 21 August 2019 14:59 (four years ago) link
xp ikr, I’d enjoy the notion of the West Brits pandering to the SF vote but like...Can’t say I remember the Bruton thing deems, bit before my time! Garret Fitzgerald wrote this atrocity of a letter to Thatcher back in the day
He went on to make to points on a purely personal note. “It is not for me to comment on the domestic politics of Britain, but I think I am entitled to say that for Ireland’s sake I hope you are returned to power.“The other is that I very much hope our paths will cross again. The relationship which began when we stepped on board that motor launch in Cesme 12 years ago – and when you got soaked because of my Irish optimism about the behaviour of the Turkish sea! – has I believe been extraordinarily fruitful for both our countries, and our encounters have always been stimulating – whether calm, as they usually were, or heated, as they sometimes became. With all good wishes for the future.”
― gyac, Wednesday, 21 August 2019 15:03 (four years ago) link