https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_UK_Labour_Party
― Mr. Snrub, Monday, 19 August 2019 23:29 (four years ago) link
thanks for bring the nuance and light mr Snrub, on what was otherwise a completely untapped archive!
― calzino, Monday, 19 August 2019 23:33 (four years ago) link
But does he hate Jews as much as Ilhan Omar?
― Boulez, vous couchez avec moi? (Tom D.), Monday, 19 August 2019 23:40 (four years ago) link
i dunno, how much does he hate her?
― phil neville jacket (darraghmac), Monday, 19 August 2019 23:42 (four years ago) link
Corbyn's flaw is he's never going to be PM. He couldn't even beat May, universally recognised as the worst PM in living memory. Finally Labour has the right policies, but the wrong person to sell them.
― Zelda Zonk, Tuesday, 20 August 2019 01:54 (four years ago) link
He should get a young hot deputy to do all the public appearances and campaigning and just not make a big deal about who the party leader technically is
― president of deluded fruitcakes anonymous (silby), Tuesday, 20 August 2019 02:08 (four years ago) link
tbf she had not yet established herself as such at the time
― Simon H., Tuesday, 20 August 2019 02:09 (four years ago) link
- is disliked by cultural titans eddie marsan and rachel r’lyeh riley
― Andy Jones, Earth-Born Angel of Love (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 20 August 2019 03:02 (four years ago) link
He couldn't even beat May, universally recognised as the worst PM in living memory.
― gyac, Tuesday, 20 August 2019 05:32 (four years ago) link
I wouldn’t underestimate how well Corbyn’s unpolished, direct communication style goes down with people who are sick of typical politicians or to what extent a younger politician with the same policies but without Corbyn’s history would face a similar demonisation from the press and the right of the Labour Party.
In terms of flaws, it does sound like Corbyn’s team isn’t particularly interested in, or has given up attempting, the typical business of rapidly responding to press enquiries, trying to shape media narratives on the fly, etc. In some ways, that might be understandable but it gives journalists an additional excuse for not engaging fairly.
The failure to get rid of terrible politicians who are happy to work with him is a definite flaw. I know he has a small pool to select his cabinet from but there is no excuse for Nia Griffith still being there. Related to that, the attempt to outflank the Tories on law and order / police numbers is completely misguided.
― ShariVari, Tuesday, 20 August 2019 05:36 (four years ago) link
I agree Corbyn did far better than he was expected to in 2017. But the job of opposition leader is not to win the game of expectations. It's to actually win! I mean I hope he can next time, but I doubt it and I imagine there are others who could do better with broadly the same suite of policies.
― Zelda Zonk, Tuesday, 20 August 2019 05:45 (four years ago) link
Beard. This Great Nation hasn't had a PM with a full beard since The Most Honourable Robert Gascoyne-Cecil, 3rd Marquess of Salisbury in 1895:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Gascoyne-Cecil,_3rd_Marquess_of_Salisbury#/media/File:Robert_cecil.jpg
although there have been some fine moustaches in the interim years.
― michael schenker group is no laughing matter (Matt #2), Tuesday, 20 August 2019 06:13 (four years ago) link
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/51/3rd_Marquess_of_Salisbury.jpg
― michael schenker group is no laughing matter (Matt #2), Tuesday, 20 August 2019 06:14 (four years ago) link
I imagine there are others who could do better with broadly the same suite of policies.― Zelda Zonk, Tuesday, August 20, 2019 5:45 AM (twenty-nine minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
name one who could beat corbyn, never mind carry the country
― im led by donky (||||||||), Tuesday, 20 August 2019 06:18 (four years ago) link
I mean you obviously don’t? A percentage of the vote that would have won a majority in almost any other election and gaining seats and millions of voters are far more than “expectations”. Not really convinced about the argument that another leader would have done better on that platform and less so in the past two years. I look at the reception given to Laura Pidcock over basically anything she does, Rebecca Long-Bailey and Clive Lewis (esp over Grenfell) and it’s difficult to conclude a lot of the same attacks wouldn’t have been tried then. I also remember all the people being like “yeah he should have won” the morning after the election were people who would have been dying from pure rage if he actually had so yeah. Revisionism.
― gyac, Tuesday, 20 August 2019 06:24 (four years ago) link
I wouldn’t underestimate how well Corbyn’s unpolished, direct communication style goes down with people who are sick of typical politicians
― gyac, Tuesday, 20 August 2019 06:31 (four years ago) link
looking increasingly like RLB is being set up to succeed corbs (kudos to Matt DC for calling this early). think she'll get the crucial union backing. starmer & rayner prob the other best contenders. Abbott & McDonnell too old, pidcock & carden too young, Lewis & thornberry too unreliable, almost everyone else too right wing for the members (sorry sobez)
― ogmor, Tuesday, 20 August 2019 07:16 (four years ago) link
Labour focused so much on defence they missed out on several more seats they could have nicked with the resourcing there.
I'm not presenting it as a contradiction, but the same's true on the other side - there was a lot of gnashing of teeth from Conservative activists about being sent to campaign in seats that they ended up losing by two figures while marginals that they barely lost went without.
The conhome report from that year about how the election campaign went was a catalogue of falling about on their arses - Labour did do very well (and Corbyn should take a lot of credit), but the next one definitely won't be easy in the same way. And also we lost.
Back to Corbyn, I think some of his totemic appeal couldn't translate to a new younger leader - it's that he has been in the Commons for decades and has been voting the right way for that long. He's also very good at communicating that this is coming from a coherent ethos, that he's not just reading things off a piece of paper. Not to be the first to broach the B-word, but a side-effect is that when does attempt any more delicate dance, it stands out a mile - but like I say I think this is central to his appeal!
― Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 20 August 2019 07:20 (four years ago) link
This thread is four years too late.
― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 20 August 2019 07:26 (four years ago) link
― gyac, Tuesday, 20 August 2019 07:28 (four years ago) link
this was a good analysis (of the CON campaign) at the timehttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39927866
he can’t seem to parse the LAB approach, presumably because he thinks they’ll get a doing
stephen bush’s analysis of why JC’s performance is even better than you think always worth a reread
― im led by donky (||||||||), Tuesday, 20 August 2019 07:28 (four years ago) link
xp Fair point!
― Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 20 August 2019 07:29 (four years ago) link
Broadcasting, though, is a factor to consider in all this. ITV audiences in target seats may not notice exactly where he is. Mr Corbyn has been getting into the TV regions - and it is possible he is generating better pictures, addressing big crowds, by visiting safer Labour seats.
has MR seumas milne all over it
― im led by donky (||||||||), Tuesday, 20 August 2019 07:30 (four years ago) link
RLB seems to be being mentored by John McD which is by no means bad, but she’s not Corbyn’s own successor who he’d ideally be doing this for himself.
lmost everyone else too right wing for the members (sorry sobez)
― gyac, Tuesday, 20 August 2019 07:30 (four years ago) link
... and evidence that his team do know how to play the media game, but just choose not to day to day (whether for good or bad)
― im led by donky (||||||||), Tuesday, 20 August 2019 07:32 (four years ago) link
― gyac, Tuesday, 20 August 2019 07:35 (four years ago) link
Having said that:
He's also very good at communicating that this is coming from a coherent ethos, that he's not just reading things off a piece of paper. Not to be the first to broach the B-word, but a side-effect is that when does attempt any more delicate dance, it stands out a mile - but like I say I think this is central to his appeal!
This speaks to his main flaw (that hasn't been mentoned so far) as his inability to lie to the camera with any conviction.
And to what Zelda is saying is that I somewhat agree its highly unlikely he'd be PM but it would only be the latest in the highly unlikely set of things that have happened in the last few years.
― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 20 August 2019 07:42 (four years ago) link
yes - he is very bad at lying and frequently busks off the cuff when maybe he shouldn’t. this hasn’t been that big an issue because his political instincts are p good/in tune with members but in areas which require some triangulation (brexit) it can be an issue
― im led by donky (||||||||), Tuesday, 20 August 2019 07:46 (four years ago) link
- owns a cat
― im led by donky (||||||||), Tuesday, 20 August 2019 07:47 (four years ago) link
xps yeah think sobez wld be great in the cabinet. still think he'd make a decent leader in many respects but he's still v much in the open labour camp and doesn't seem interested atm.
― ogmor, Tuesday, 20 August 2019 07:48 (four years ago) link
I had forgotten about young mister Sobel, and read that, the first time, as a typo for Soubez - hilarity etc.
― Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 20 August 2019 07:54 (four years ago) link
Being a cat-loving Gooner are not fucking flaws!!
― Ward Fowler, Tuesday, 20 August 2019 08:07 (four years ago) link
this is a safe space
― phil neville jacket (darraghmac), Tuesday, 20 August 2019 08:08 (four years ago) link
His main flaw is that he corbsplains.
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 20 August 2019 08:12 (four years ago) link
Says shit like “ram-packed” and “pantomine”
― YouGov to see it (wins), Tuesday, 20 August 2019 08:46 (four years ago) link
apt enough for a man that thinks we should work for buttons
― phil neville jacket (darraghmac), Tuesday, 20 August 2019 09:12 (four years ago) link
his brother
― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Tuesday, 20 August 2019 09:14 (four years ago) link
really had enough of that beige blazer
― nashwan, Tuesday, 20 August 2019 09:21 (four years ago) link
Seamus Milne, there's a doozy of a flaw right there.
― Boulez, vous couchez avec moi? (Tom D.), Tuesday, 20 August 2019 09:38 (four years ago) link
I mean the Milnester affectionately calls George Galloway "chief". He should be gone already!
― calzino, Tuesday, 20 August 2019 09:40 (four years ago) link
lol, I'd forgotten about Corbz foolish brother, in a probably much easier fashion than he ever can.
― calzino, Tuesday, 20 August 2019 09:42 (four years ago) link
This thread is four years too late.― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 20 August 2019 07:26 (two hours ago)
― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 20 August 2019 07:26 (two hours ago)
Extremely harsh to criticise Corbyn for this IMO.
― Tim, Tuesday, 20 August 2019 09:47 (four years ago) link
Yes he is very bad at lots of the things you expect politicians to be good at - lying to the camera, triangulating, win-the-day stuff etc - but these are features not bugs. Or at least they would be if he didn't try and do them.
His main flaw is too much loyalty to the wrong people, and a mistaken belief that he's reliant on individuals who are a big part of the problem. Milne is definitely one of those.
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 20 August 2019 09:48 (four years ago) link
He also needs to find a better way of responding to events like the Skripals, Iran/shipping etc. Appealing for calm and cool heads is the right thing to do but you have to do so in a way that doesn't make it very easy for opponents to spin as automatically siding with something nefarious. (Caveat, this is much easier said than done but he has a tendency to rush out a statement, disappear for days while the noise builds, and then put out a more considered article when the damage has been done).
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 20 August 2019 09:55 (four years ago) link
When it comes to Corbyn I think it's the way his office communicates on various issues that has been the divide between various people that like what he represents to succeed.
Partly to do with memories of the way Blair used to be sharp as anything on this, even when evil. Like, what if really left and progressive...but we get the PR and management and shit like resourcing right too.
― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 20 August 2019 10:16 (four years ago) link
there has to be a way of improving the media response without returning to the Nu Labour style. usually when the Labour right are concern trolling about how much better things were done under Blair they conveniently ignore that that kind of slick management presentation is automatically distrusted by a lot of the electorate now
this isn't a fault specific to Corbyn the man but his leadership has failed to fully find its own approach to media beyond, for better or worse, social media
― what's wrong with being centre-y? (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 20 August 2019 10:23 (four years ago) link
social media has largely been outsourced to momentum which has big problems
― plax (ico), Tuesday, 20 August 2019 10:26 (four years ago) link
and this needs to happen more in the unglamorous work of restructuring the party in ways that the electorate mostly don't give a fuck about. a move away from "strong leader" FPTP bullshit and a move away from engaging in that bullshit would be of more lasting value to UK politics than a lot of short/mid term policy initiatives (that you still need to produce in order to compete in elections: not saying it's either/or)
xp yeah plax a lot of the social media makes me cringe but seems to be doing roughly its job atm?
― what's wrong with being centre-y? (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 20 August 2019 10:27 (four years ago) link
i mean i would be all for crowdfunding the suppression of Another Angry Voice and all the other dorks
― what's wrong with being centre-y? (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 20 August 2019 10:28 (four years ago) link
a move away from "strong leader" FPTP bullshit and a move away from engaging in that bullshit would be of more lasting value to UK politics than a lot of short/mid term policy initiatives (that you still need to produce in order to compete in elections: not saying it's either/or)
Yeah, completely, and some of the things I dislike are "on his watch" things which a lot of the media is keen to position as his personal flaws.
A question that came to me recently - a lot of the denouncements from people saying they couldn't serve in a GNU led by him called him, specifically, an anti-semite, which I think we'd all agree isn't one of his flaws? Why didn't he just sue the fuck out of them for libel?
― Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 20 August 2019 10:33 (four years ago) link
Let's see them use a slim majority to push socialist policy just you wait.
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 22 March 2023 13:22 (one year ago) link
Tony Blair famously said if he could win from the left he wouldn’t do it. I haven’t seen anything to indicate the current party is different.
― limb tins & cum (gyac), Wednesday, 22 March 2023 13:24 (one year ago) link
Re the og question, I feel like the left needs a hard bastard as a leader or figurehead, and sadly Corbs wasn't that. Mick Lynch seems to have worked wonders for the RMT. Ian Lavery squared up to Johnson on live TV. I know this is simplistic but voters seem to prefer someone perceived as pugilistic. Obviously I'm ignoring the media's role in Corbs leadership, and what they would do to such a hypothetical leader (I remember how they demonised and ridiculed Prescott for defending himself).
― glumdalclitch, Wednesday, 22 March 2023 14:14 (one year ago) link
Yeah I think it's a consensus take now that Corbyn was too soft.
― Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 22 March 2023 14:30 (one year ago) link
He was not a leader in any sense of the word. Which is why he was the best leader.
Amazing how close we got to at least some power.
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 22 March 2023 14:32 (one year ago) link
just realised that if Humza wins the SNP vote, all four biggest parties will be led by charisma-free freaks who command absolutely zero respect from anyone. you couldn't say the same about Corbyn, Johnson or Sturgeon.
― Camaraderie at Arms Length, Wednesday, 22 March 2023 14:49 (one year ago) link
enter Sir Edward Davey
― conrad, Wednesday, 22 March 2023 14:52 (one year ago) link
look, charisma-free freaks is grown-up politics
― satori enabler (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 22 March 2023 14:57 (one year ago) link
Sounds like an uncool liberal belief, to me
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 22 March 2023 15:05 (one year ago) link
prefer someone perceived as pugilistic.
It's directness, straightforwardness, and succinctness that are popular. That doesn't necessarily mean being more pugilistic at all
― anvil, Wednesday, 22 March 2023 15:33 (one year ago) link
Starmer has problems in that case.
― Maggot Bairn (Tom D.), Wednesday, 22 March 2023 15:38 (one year ago) link
I think that is pretty clear!
― anvil, Wednesday, 22 March 2023 15:42 (one year ago) link
― anvil, Wednesday, 22 March 2023 15:33 (ten minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
Personally I thought Corbs was all these things, to a large extent, with the exceptions maybe of Brexit and the EU.
― glumdalclitch, Wednesday, 22 March 2023 16:21 (one year ago) link
Agree.
― the pinefox, Wednesday, 22 March 2023 16:27 (one year ago) link
I wish Corbyn would sue every one of these fuckers who's called him an antisemite. he could fund a new party with that money.
― Camaraderie at Arms Length, Wednesday, 22 March 2023 19:45 (one year ago) link
I'm always glad to see JC happy.
Thank you to the people of Belfast for a truly inspirational visit. I was honoured to speak at #Feile35 and pay tribute to the Irish community back in my constituency.Above all, I was buoyed by the hope of young people campaigning for freedom, peace and unity. pic.twitter.com/07TgLm00n1— Jeremy Corbyn (@jeremycorbyn) August 4, 2023
― the pinefox, Friday, 4 August 2023 10:37 (nine months ago) link
he does an innocuous Hiroshima day post and predictably 99% of the replies are from really nasty and thick friends and apologists of the mass humanity exterminating division of the US military complex. He's already politically finished and had whip removed ffs
― vodkaitamin effrtvescent (calzino), Sunday, 6 August 2023 23:38 (eight months ago) link
JC marks 50 years since the coup in Chile.
50 years ago, a US-backed military coup overthrew the Allende government in Chile.Chileans never gave up — after 17 years of repression, democracy was restored.As Pablo Neruda said, “You can cut all the flowers but you can’t stop Spring from coming.” pic.twitter.com/BhYQOXyA4r— Jeremy Corbyn (@jeremycorbyn) September 11, 2023
― the pinefox, Monday, 11 September 2023 10:45 (seven months ago) link
I've just been reading an oral history of Rough Trade where Piers Corbyn is twice referred to as 'The King of the Squats'.
― Ward Fowler, Monday, 11 September 2023 10:46 (seven months ago) link