what are jeremy corbyn's flaws?

he is def a dozy cxnt sometimes and can be liable to open mouth before engaging brain the democratic policy formation processes of the UK labour party - see e.g. calling for immediate triggering of A50 on the morning of the referendum

spose we're as well to note that he seems not to inspire the confidence of prospective coalition partners (including those in his own party) which bytimes is gonna be an issue

If the coalition partners weren't worthless arseholes that would be a fair criticism.

ah look we have to put something in her fer gawds sake the mans a saint

oh he hates the jews obv thats a mark against him

not john mcdonnell

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_UK_Labour_Party

thanks for bring the nuance and light mr Snrub, on what was otherwise a completely untapped archive!

But does he hate Jews as much as Ilhan Omar?

i dunno, how much does he hate her?

Corbyn's flaw is he's never going to be PM. He couldn't even beat May, universally recognised as the worst PM in living memory. Finally Labour has the right policies, but the wrong person to sell them.

He should get a young hot deputy to do all the public appearances and campaigning and just not make a big deal about who the party leader technically is

Corbyn's flaw is he's never going to be PM. He couldn't even beat May, universally recognised as the worst PM in living memory. Finally Labour has the right policies, but the wrong person to sell them.

tbf she had not yet established herself as such at the time

- is disliked by cultural titans eddie marsan and rachel r’lyeh riley

He couldn't even beat May, universally recognised as the worst PM in living memory.

I wouldn’t underestimate how well Corbyn’s unpolished, direct communication style goes down with people who are sick of typical politicians or to what extent a younger politician with the same policies but without Corbyn’s history would face a similar demonisation from the press and the right of the Labour Party.

In terms of flaws, it does sound like Corbyn’s team isn’t particularly interested in, or has given up attempting, the typical business of rapidly responding to press enquiries, trying to shape media narratives on the fly, etc. In some ways, that might be understandable but it gives journalists an additional excuse for not engaging fairly.

The failure to get rid of terrible politicians who are happy to work with him is a definite flaw. I know he has a small pool to select his cabinet from but there is no excuse for Nia Griffith still being there. Related to that, the attempt to outflank the Tories on law and order / police numbers is completely misguided.

I agree Corbyn did far better than he was expected to in 2017. But the job of opposition leader is not to win the game of expectations. It's to actually win! I mean I hope he can next time, but I doubt it and I imagine there are others who could do better with broadly the same suite of policies.

Beard.
This Great Nation hasn't had a PM with a full beard since The Most Honourable Robert Gascoyne-Cecil, 3rd Marquess of Salisbury in 1895:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Gascoyne-Cecil,_3rd_Marquess_of_Salisbury#/media/File:Robert_cecil.jpg

although there have been some fine moustaches in the interim years.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/51/3rd_Marquess_of_Salisbury.jpg

I imagine there are others who could do better with broadly the same suite of policies.
― Zelda Zonk, Tuesday, August 20, 2019 5:45 AM (twenty-nine minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

name one who could beat corbyn, never mind carry the country

I mean you obviously don’t? A percentage of the vote that would have won a majority in almost any other election and gaining seats and millions of voters are far more than “expectations”. Not really convinced about the argument that another leader would have done better on that platform and less so in the past two years. I look at the reception given to Laura Pidcock over basically anything she does, Rebecca Long-Bailey and Clive Lewis (esp over Grenfell) and it’s difficult to conclude a lot of the same attacks wouldn’t have been tried then. I also remember all the people being like “yeah he should have won” the morning after the election were people who would have been dying from pure rage if he actually had so yeah. Revisionism.

I wouldn’t underestimate how well Corbyn’s unpolished, direct communication style goes down with people who are sick of typical politicians

looking increasingly like RLB is being set up to succeed corbs (kudos to Matt DC for calling this early). think she'll get the crucial union backing. starmer & rayner prob the other best contenders. Abbott & McDonnell too old, pidcock & carden too young, Lewis & thornberry too unreliable, almost everyone else too right wing for the members (sorry sobez)

Labour focused so much on defence they missed out on several more seats they could have nicked with the resourcing there.

I'm not presenting it as a contradiction, but the same's true on the other side - there was a lot of gnashing of teeth from Conservative activists about being sent to campaign in seats that they ended up losing by two figures while marginals that they barely lost went without.

The conhome report from that year about how the election campaign went was a catalogue of falling about on their arses - Labour did do very well (and Corbyn should take a lot of credit), but the next one definitely won't be easy in the same way. And also we lost.

Back to Corbyn, I think some of his totemic appeal couldn't translate to a new younger leader - it's that he has been in the Commons for decades and has been voting the right way for that long. He's also very good at communicating that this is coming from a coherent ethos, that he's not just reading things off a piece of paper. Not to be the first to broach the B-word, but a side-effect is that when does attempt any more delicate dance, it stands out a mile - but like I say I think this is central to his appeal!

This thread is four years too late.

I'm not presenting it as a contradiction, but the same's true on the other side - there was a lot of gnashing of teeth from Conservative activists about being sent to campaign in seats that they ended up losing by two figures while marginals that they barely lost went without.

this was a good analysis (of the CON campaign) at the time
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39927866

he can’t seem to parse the LAB approach, presumably because he thinks they’ll get a doing

stephen bush’s analysis of why JC’s performance is even better than you think always worth a reread

xp Fair point!

Broadcasting, though, is a factor to consider in all this. ITV audiences in target seats may not notice exactly where he is. Mr Corbyn has been getting into the TV regions - and it is possible he is generating better pictures, addressing big crowds, by visiting safer Labour seats.

has MR seumas milne all over it

RLB seems to be being mentored by John McD which is by no means bad, but she’s not Corbyn’s own successor who he’d ideally be doing this for himself.

lmost everyone else too right wing for the members (sorry sobez)

... and evidence that his team do know how to play the media game, but just choose not to day to day (whether for good or bad)

has MR seumas milne all over it

Having said that:

He's also very good at communicating that this is coming from a coherent ethos, that he's not just reading things off a piece of paper. Not to be the first to broach the B-word, but a side-effect is that when does attempt any more delicate dance, it stands out a mile - but like I say I think this is central to his appeal!

This speaks to his main flaw (that hasn't been mentoned so far) as his inability to lie to the camera with any conviction.

And to what Zelda is saying is that I somewhat agree its highly unlikely he'd be PM but it would only be the latest in the highly unlikely set of things that have happened in the last few years.

yes - he is very bad at lying and frequently busks off the cuff when maybe he shouldn’t. this hasn’t been that big an issue because his political instincts are p good/in tune with members but in areas which require some triangulation (brexit) it can be an issue

- owns a cat

xps yeah think sobez wld be great in the cabinet. still think he'd make a decent leader in many respects but he's still v much in the open labour camp and doesn't seem interested atm.

I had forgotten about young mister Sobel, and read that, the first time, as a typo for Soubez - hilarity etc.

Being a cat-loving Gooner are not fucking flaws!!

this is a safe space

His main flaw is that he corbsplains.

Says shit like “ram-packed” and “pantomine”

apt enough for a man that thinks we should work for buttons

his brother

really had enough of that beige blazer

Seamus Milne, there's a doozy of a flaw right there.

I mean the Milnester affectionately calls George Galloway "chief". He should be gone already!

lol, I'd forgotten about Corbz foolish brother, in a probably much easier fashion than he ever can.

This thread is four years too late.

― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 20 August 2019 07:26 (two hours ago)

Extremely harsh to criticise Corbyn for this IMO.

Yes he is very bad at lots of the things you expect politicians to be good at - lying to the camera, triangulating, win-the-day stuff etc - but these are features not bugs. Or at least they would be if he didn't try and do them.

His main flaw is too much loyalty to the wrong people, and a mistaken belief that he's reliant on individuals who are a big part of the problem. Milne is definitely one of those.

He also needs to find a better way of responding to events like the Skripals, Iran/shipping etc. Appealing for calm and cool heads is the right thing to do but you have to do so in a way that doesn't make it very easy for opponents to spin as automatically siding with something nefarious. (Caveat, this is much easier said than done but he has a tendency to rush out a statement, disappear for days while the noise builds, and then put out a more considered article when the damage has been done).

When it comes to Corbyn I think it's the way his office communicates on various issues that has been the divide between various people that like what he represents to succeed.

Partly to do with memories of the way Blair used to be sharp as anything on this, even when evil. Like, what if really left and progressive...but we get the PR and management and shit like resourcing right too.

he's already polling lower than Sunak on a personal basis, unbelievably classic Labour

I saw an outlier poll where they are only 10 pts ahead yesterday, lol

― calzino, Wednesday, 22 March 2023 bookmarkflaglink

It's narrowed bcz it isn't the Truss-led shit show and Lab will only have bots to say how Kieth is a top bloke.

One poll indicated a Labour majority of 8.

No reason to believe that particular outcome will occur but it is one of those accidental scenarios that would, in theory, favour a faction like the Socialist Campaign Group, if they had the will to enact that as the ERG did (which they won't). They could make demands in exchange for voting through KS's policies, etc.

I don't think it will happen (don't think the SCG are able to stand up in this way) but hypothetically that would be the result of such a scenario. Hypothetically therefore it could be the best feasible electoral outcome.

You can even imagine, say, a Labour majority of 2, which would be 50% larger if only they hadn't expelled the successful candidate for Islington North. Would make that act look the more self-destructive (as well as morally wrong).

the SCG have not acquitted themselves well in the post-Corbyn era

Let's see them use a slim majority to push socialist policy just you wait.

Tony Blair famously said if he could win from the left he wouldn’t do it. I haven’t seen anything to indicate the current party is different.

Re the og question, I feel like the left needs a hard bastard as a leader or figurehead, and sadly Corbs wasn't that. Mick Lynch seems to have worked wonders for the RMT. Ian Lavery squared up to Johnson on live TV. I know this is simplistic but voters seem to prefer someone perceived as pugilistic. Obviously I'm ignoring the media's role in Corbs leadership, and what they would do to such a hypothetical leader (I remember how they demonised and ridiculed Prescott for defending himself).

Yeah I think it's a consensus take now that Corbyn was too soft.

He was not a leader in any sense of the word. Which is why he was the best leader.

Amazing how close we got to at least some power.

just realised that if Humza wins the SNP vote, all four biggest parties will be led by charisma-free freaks who command absolutely zero respect from anyone. you couldn't say the same about Corbyn, Johnson or Sturgeon.

enter Sir Edward Davey

look, charisma-free freaks is grown-up politics

Sounds like an uncool liberal belief, to me

prefer someone perceived as pugilistic.

It's directness, straightforwardness, and succinctness that are popular. That doesn't necessarily mean being more pugilistic at all

Starmer has problems in that case.

I think that is pretty clear!

It's directness, straightforwardness, and succinctness that are popular. That doesn't necessarily mean being more pugilistic at all

― anvil, Wednesday, 22 March 2023 15:33 (ten minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Personally I thought Corbs was all these things, to a large extent, with the exceptions maybe of Brexit and the EU.

Agree.

I wish Corbyn would sue every one of these fuckers who's called him an antisemite. he could fund a new party with that money.

I'm always glad to see JC happy.

Thank you to the people of Belfast for a truly inspirational visit.

I was honoured to speak at #Feile35 and pay tribute to the Irish community back in my constituency.

Above all, I was buoyed by the hope of young people campaigning for freedom, peace and unity. pic.twitter.com/07TgLm00n1

— Jeremy Corbyn (@jeremycorbyn) August 4, 2023

he does an innocuous Hiroshima day post and predictably 99% of the replies are from really nasty and thick friends and apologists of the mass humanity exterminating division of the US military complex. He's already politically finished and had whip removed ffs

JC marks 50 years since the coup in Chile.

50 years ago, a US-backed military coup overthrew the Allende government in Chile.

Chileans never gave up — after 17 years of repression, democracy was restored.

As Pablo Neruda said, “You can cut all the flowers but you can’t stop Spring from coming.” pic.twitter.com/BhYQOXyA4r

— Jeremy Corbyn (@jeremycorbyn) September 11, 2023

I've just been reading an oral history of Rough Trade where Piers Corbyn is twice referred to as 'The King of the Squats'.