PMs change and lol we're all gonna die (but brexit will never end)

The timing of this seems strange, with an election in the offing.

increased access to flexible working, better opportunities for training, employer-led Mid-Life MOT & implementation of an ‘Age Confident’ scheme. PROVIDED that this support is in place, the report proposes an increase in the State Pension Age to 75 by 2035. #ageingconfidently 2/2

— Iain Duncan Smith MP (@MPIainDS) August 19, 2019

I always assumed I'd never get to retirement tbf

I'm planning to starve/freeze in inconvenient places.

You’re also not the only foreigner concerned about their rights itt, nor does one have to be foreign to be fearful for the future in this country.

Nor do you have to be threatened by the news from the Home Office (as neither you nor I are AFAIK) to be frustrated by Labour pissing about on this.

I was at a conference on the future of employability earlier in the year and it was hypothesised that the first generation to routinely work to 100 has already been born. Xp

You’re also not the only foreigner concerned about their rights itt, nor does one have to be foreign to be fearful for the future in this country.

And? This doesn't disprove my point, which is that Corbyn is doing precious little to defend the rights of EU citizens in the UK. Why do so many of you feel the need to bat for this? Is wholesale alignment with every single one of his stances a prerequisite to posting itt? Is it really that hard to grasp why I would take issue with Corbyn's timorousness in this regard?

100 fs. 75 is bad enough

we should be lowering the age not raising it!

Ffs, at least in the old days you had the relief of dying in abject poverty rather than extended working poverty till you looked the tutes-carm-une has let himself go a bit!

Here's a sample of the Stakhanovs of the future:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-39809808

(Article is from 2017.)

you literally just have to Google 'corbyn EU citizens rights' to find out what he has said about this. there is no shortage of speeches he's made and PM's questions full of very loud, forthright demands for guaranteeing them. not sure what else you want from him here?

To go back to what started this whole discussion, I'd like him not to remain neutral in the event of a second ref.

Him and his party.

Labour are looking for an election and if they get in they will make it good for migrants in general. There is no basis on this from looking at statements made by the leadership day-to-day with a microscope. I say this as someone with a couple of family members who might need to pack and leave if things go south here.

my granda never really retired. always had to be doing some sort of work: putting an extension on his house by himself (and without planning permission), doing a day of roofing for my uncle, or doing renos on someone's bathroom etc. of course he didn't make 75 because he was a glaswegian man

well that’s the thing innit - raising the retirement age to 75 is basically a death sentence for a lot of working people in more deprived areas

i'm personally only legal to live in the UK because of an EU-backed piece of paper and the Labour Party is the only party i feel are going to give any kind of a shit about making sure that piece of paper continues to mean something. I'm certainly not pinning my hopes on Jo fucking Swinson. but as comrade alphabet alludes, it's larger than that, it's about attitudes to migration in general, not just from the EU.

and even then the life expectancy in the uk is like 80, so people get to retire and then spend the worst five years of their lives in increasingly poor shape until they’re dead

also: the state pension sucks! they’re not even gonna be living high on the hog for those increasingly shitty years

"Jo fucking Swinson"

always good to see her correct title being used on this thread.

Labour is indeed likeliest to give the least bit of a toss about this, yes. But you'll forgive me for not getting excited over the exact extent to which that appears to be the case right now.

2xp

surely raising pension age would be as popular as May's incoherence tax in the Tory heartlands was. There aren't enough cold-blooded millionaires to make that a popular policy.

And? This doesn't disprove my point, which is that Corbyn is doing precious little to defend the rights of EU citizens in the UK. Why do so many of you feel the need to bat for this? Is wholesale alignment with every single one of his stances a prerequisite to posting itt? Is it really that hard to grasp why I would take issue with Corbyn's timorousness in this regard?

my brexit-voting father-in-law was blustering about his support for the pension plan yesterday on the grounds that it wouldn’t affect him since he’s already retired, so let’s not count out the ‘fuck you, got mine’ vote

The Labour leader said the party would campaign to remain against a no-deal Brexit. But when asked if the party would stay agnostic if the public were given a choice between a deal negotiated by Labour and remaining in the EU, Corbyn did not say which side the party would support.

Possibly there is more to lose than gain by responding to that sort of trip-up question before a supposedly forthcoming election. But then I would say that.

you are not the only one with skin in the game

Obviously? I haven't suggested the obverse.

As for the stanning… there's more than a whiff of it itt, yes, although you may not always realize it.

"But you'll forgive me for not getting excited over the exact extent to which that appears to be the case right now."

'right now' is the wrong way of looking at it. See the bigger picture.

Ok, but that requires a leap of faith that we generally don't afford other politicians. It comes more or less easily to one.

this thread does stan for corbyn. come on.

There is no leap of faith here. You are looking at a statement given today as if it's the policy they'll adopt instead of seeing as a reply to a a question in a game being played. I know it's no good if you want assurances.

McDonnell stans maybe, not Corbyn. I am certainly not a Corbyn stan!

How does this thread stan for Corbyn if you post in it Jim?

my brexit-voting father-in-law was blustering about his support for the pension plan yesterday on the grounds that it wouldn’t affect him since he’s already retired, so let’s not count out the ‘fuck you, got mine’ vote

please give him a stern look from me, thanks

I mean I always say that I assume pensions won't exist by the time I get there (and there's a good chance I won't either) but it's still a bit disheartening to have a member of the government announce such bold steps in that direction

The wider political discourse is marked by attacks on Corbyn, and people defending him. People just get locked into the 'defense' part because that's what's at stake, so there's going to be knee-jerk reactions to criticism.

I get that and it's fair in the wider discursive sphere, but as with many other topics, is the knee-jerking really necessary on ILX where ideological variation from one poster to the next is slim to none when set against the general population?

"The timing of this seems strange, with an election in the offing."

Re: that IDS tweet he is a backbencher. In any case I doubt they will say anything at all about retirement or the care system at a manifesto if the Tories know what's good for them.

xp oi careful

Just calmly trawling, as I always do.

anyway ilx has long (always) been ever the more clenched and entrenched on those positions that exist more easily here than in the outside world.

when you lift yr leg around here you are pissing on ppls shelter from a crûl world

How does this thread stan for Corbyn if you post in it Jim?

― xyzzzz__, Monday, August 19, 2019 10:39 AM (thirteen minutes ago)

I'm considered pro-corbyn by the members of the british electorate that i personally know and i voted for labour in the last GE

Like, you think the past week of centrist faves lining up to be like, “unfortunately I cannot temporarily support a temporary Corbyn government because communism” shows anything besides the extent to how anti-left mainstream politics and their media supporters in this country is? You think a no-deal Brexit might be, idk, full of people looking for scapegoats and the kind of scapegoats people tend to find in these times? Who do you think those scapegoats might be?

Have you any idea how much anti-Irish sentiment in this country has racheted up over the last few years, how the government is literally supporting a fucking policy to let its soldiers get away with war crimes because they were only fucking Irish, after all? Like, one of the civilian victims was a man whose skull was used as an ashtray by soldiers. Do you understand how frightened I feel when the government are trying to pin the blame for a no-deal crash out on Ireland? Do you even understand the depth of my anger with Corbyn, MP for one of the most Irish constituencies btw, retaining a shadow defence secretary who followed the government’s dangerous line on that? Do you? Think on any of that before you accuse anyone itt of stanning for Corbyn again.

xp. despite being a fundamentalist scottish nationalist

Re: that IDS tweet he is a backbencher

This is true but he was also the head of Johnson’s leadership campaign and the CSJ has pretty close ties to the PM / current cabinet. It seems like the kind of thing you might put on the back burner if you didn’t want to make an issue of it right now.

I genuinely empathize, gyac, but tbpf such internal grievances don't come up very often in our little echo chamber.

Forgot that IDS was part of Johnson's campaign. Like the Dementia tax last time around it's as if Tories do need to say something about pensions/care that isn't comfortable for people to hear.

gyac has been quite vocal about her distaste towards nia griffiths, govt policy on NI etc wth

xp I literally posted about it & deems and I (and maybe AF) were angry about it on thread and elsewhere but idek what to say about this “internal grievance” bearing in mind it’s come up quite a few times

Oh yeah and I didn’t even mention the border & the effect of No Deal on Ireland’s economy ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Eh, one swallow does not a summer make. The discussion on antisemitism was also quite timid, as I recall. And who remembers Skripal?

Straight up telling me that I shouldn't complain about Corbyn's EU flip-flopping because there are other important issues is an instance of heavy-duty stanning and borderline insulting given the potential consequences.

I'm not minimizing other people's issues. I'm simply saying it's fair to expect more from Corbyn.

I mean you literally just fucking did.

I don't get why this has to be antagonistic at all.