PMs change and lol we're all gonna die (but brexit will never end)

Rapidly descending into Fred territory. Corbyn has whipped Labour to vote for a 2nd ref numerous times!

This isn't hard but let's be clear. Owen Jones is not a journalist - by his own admission. pic.twitter.com/lG6ND2c294

— Julia Macfarlane (@juliamacfarlane) August 19, 2019

Rapidly descending into Fred territory. Corbyn has whipped Labour to vote for a 2nd ref numerous times!

This isn't hard but let's be clear. Owen Jones is not a journalist - by his own admission. pic.twitter.com/lG6ND2c294

— Julia Macfarlane (@juliamacfarlane) August 19, 2019

as has been discussed here before despite the febrile imaginations of the centre/right that it's all tankies and mendacious authoritarians, the strength and guiding principle of the movement behind Corbyn has been its [very unusually, for british politics] democratising, consensus-building approach*. even if you think this is a bad approach it doesn't seem like pissing off one chunk of the ppl they are trying to win over to offer some comfort to another is in itself a good enough reason to ditch it

*tempted to call this 'bottom-up' but I know some wld object, but the function and role of the membership has changed as well as the opposition

Rapidly descending into Fred territory. Corbyn has whipped Labour to vote for a 2nd ref numerous times!

Not good enough when you're in my shoes and you know it. There's a chance I might have to prolong my stay here so it's slowly becoming a serious issue. Less 5d chess would be welcome.

For the record, almost everything else about Corbyn's platform is perfectly in line with my own beliefs and if I were British I'd likely vote for him.

Corbyn can't command a majority in the current Commons and I'm sure he knew that when he even suggested this. The thing is, and this is key - *neither can anyone else*.

Anyway the leaking of the Operation Yellowhammer documents yesterday feels like it should potentially be huge and will likely make no difference to anything whatsoever.

Gove is already saying that it was worst case and anyway it's an old document that we've done a lot of work since then (though some of the estimates place it as less than a month old IE during Boris's premiership).

James Hookham from the Freight Transport Association is apparently going "wait, WTF do you mean 'fuel shortages'"?

Fuel shortages is the thing that's going to kill it. You can let people starve but you don't fuck around with Middle England's petrol supplies.

have we talked about the rumours of the tories’ plan to raise the state pension entitlement age to 75? guess now they’re set on no-deal they figure they might as well go full supervillain

looks like they determined it's better to get this out there before their galvanising brexit election showdown w corbs

Anyway the leaking of the Operation Yellowhammer documents yesterday feels like it should potentially be huge and will likely make no difference to anything whatsoever.

I know David Allen Green is nobody's favourite here but I thought he was OTM this morning bemoaning the media's desire not to discuss the content of the documents at all, just make it a trashy whodunnit with pantomime booing and hissing - once again the palace intrigue of one political team vs the other(s) and who talks to whom takes precedence above the actual implications of any of the policies

tbf I haven't read much of the detail myself yet so I am part of the problem too

and finally, obviously a trivial problem compared to the rights of EU citizens here and people dying of food and medicine shortages, but after several years of thinking we ought to see the other half's dad at xmas only to find out he was otherwise engaged, this year he's rung us up and said it would be nice to see us, and I'm going "err, well, there may not be flights, and if he wants to come here there may not be food, but... maybe?"

"Not good enough when you're in my shoes and you know it. There's a chance I might have to prolong my stay here so it's slowly becoming a serious issue. Less 5d chess would be welcome."

Were you expecting no political football around immigration? Sorry to break it to you..

I think it's fair to expect Labour's head honcho to be more forthright in this regard.

When it's the one issue they've been triangulating on I don't think I'd hang on his every word. In any case, it might not even be up to him.

You’re also not the only foreigner concerned about their rights itt, nor does one have to be foreign to be fearful for the future in this country.

A senior civil servant sends a Confidential email about No Deal ministerial timelines for Alok Sharma MP, International Development Secretary, to Virenda Sharma, Labour backbench MP. https://t.co/JE8LYs1zuB

— Sunder Katwala (@sundersays) August 19, 2019

*their future, not the future

The timing of this seems strange, with an election in the offing.

increased access to flexible working, better opportunities for training, employer-led Mid-Life MOT & implementation of an ‘Age Confident’ scheme. PROVIDED that this support is in place, the report proposes an increase in the State Pension Age to 75 by 2035. #ageingconfidently 2/2

— Iain Duncan Smith MP (@MPIainDS) August 19, 2019

I always assumed I'd never get to retirement tbf

I'm planning to starve/freeze in inconvenient places.

You’re also not the only foreigner concerned about their rights itt, nor does one have to be foreign to be fearful for the future in this country.

Nor do you have to be threatened by the news from the Home Office (as neither you nor I are AFAIK) to be frustrated by Labour pissing about on this.

I was at a conference on the future of employability earlier in the year and it was hypothesised that the first generation to routinely work to 100 has already been born. Xp

You’re also not the only foreigner concerned about their rights itt, nor does one have to be foreign to be fearful for the future in this country.

And? This doesn't disprove my point, which is that Corbyn is doing precious little to defend the rights of EU citizens in the UK. Why do so many of you feel the need to bat for this? Is wholesale alignment with every single one of his stances a prerequisite to posting itt? Is it really that hard to grasp why I would take issue with Corbyn's timorousness in this regard?

100 fs. 75 is bad enough

we should be lowering the age not raising it!

Ffs, at least in the old days you had the relief of dying in abject poverty rather than extended working poverty till you looked the tutes-carm-une has let himself go a bit!

Here's a sample of the Stakhanovs of the future:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-39809808

(Article is from 2017.)

you literally just have to Google 'corbyn EU citizens rights' to find out what he has said about this. there is no shortage of speeches he's made and PM's questions full of very loud, forthright demands for guaranteeing them. not sure what else you want from him here?

To go back to what started this whole discussion, I'd like him not to remain neutral in the event of a second ref.

Him and his party.

Labour are looking for an election and if they get in they will make it good for migrants in general. There is no basis on this from looking at statements made by the leadership day-to-day with a microscope. I say this as someone with a couple of family members who might need to pack and leave if things go south here.

my granda never really retired. always had to be doing some sort of work: putting an extension on his house by himself (and without planning permission), doing a day of roofing for my uncle, or doing renos on someone's bathroom etc. of course he didn't make 75 because he was a glaswegian man

well that’s the thing innit - raising the retirement age to 75 is basically a death sentence for a lot of working people in more deprived areas

i'm personally only legal to live in the UK because of an EU-backed piece of paper and the Labour Party is the only party i feel are going to give any kind of a shit about making sure that piece of paper continues to mean something. I'm certainly not pinning my hopes on Jo fucking Swinson. but as comrade alphabet alludes, it's larger than that, it's about attitudes to migration in general, not just from the EU.

and even then the life expectancy in the uk is like 80, so people get to retire and then spend the worst five years of their lives in increasingly poor shape until they’re dead

also: the state pension sucks! they’re not even gonna be living high on the hog for those increasingly shitty years

"Jo fucking Swinson"

always good to see her correct title being used on this thread.

Labour is indeed likeliest to give the least bit of a toss about this, yes. But you'll forgive me for not getting excited over the exact extent to which that appears to be the case right now.

2xp

surely raising pension age would be as popular as May's incoherence tax in the Tory heartlands was. There aren't enough cold-blooded millionaires to make that a popular policy.

And? This doesn't disprove my point, which is that Corbyn is doing precious little to defend the rights of EU citizens in the UK. Why do so many of you feel the need to bat for this? Is wholesale alignment with every single one of his stances a prerequisite to posting itt? Is it really that hard to grasp why I would take issue with Corbyn's timorousness in this regard?

my brexit-voting father-in-law was blustering about his support for the pension plan yesterday on the grounds that it wouldn’t affect him since he’s already retired, so let’s not count out the ‘fuck you, got mine’ vote

The Labour leader said the party would campaign to remain against a no-deal Brexit. But when asked if the party would stay agnostic if the public were given a choice between a deal negotiated by Labour and remaining in the EU, Corbyn did not say which side the party would support.

Possibly there is more to lose than gain by responding to that sort of trip-up question before a supposedly forthcoming election. But then I would say that.

you are not the only one with skin in the game

Obviously? I haven't suggested the obverse.

As for the stanning… there's more than a whiff of it itt, yes, although you may not always realize it.

"But you'll forgive me for not getting excited over the exact extent to which that appears to be the case right now."

'right now' is the wrong way of looking at it. See the bigger picture.

Ok, but that requires a leap of faith that we generally don't afford other politicians. It comes more or less easily to one.

this thread does stan for corbyn. come on.

There is no leap of faith here. You are looking at a statement given today as if it's the policy they'll adopt instead of seeing as a reply to a a question in a game being played. I know it's no good if you want assurances.

McDonnell stans maybe, not Corbyn. I am certainly not a Corbyn stan!

How does this thread stan for Corbyn if you post in it Jim?

my brexit-voting father-in-law was blustering about his support for the pension plan yesterday on the grounds that it wouldn’t affect him since he’s already retired, so let’s not count out the ‘fuck you, got mine’ vote

please give him a stern look from me, thanks

I mean I always say that I assume pensions won't exist by the time I get there (and there's a good chance I won't either) but it's still a bit disheartening to have a member of the government announce such bold steps in that direction

The wider political discourse is marked by attacks on Corbyn, and people defending him. People just get locked into the 'defense' part because that's what's at stake, so there's going to be knee-jerk reactions to criticism.

I get that and it's fair in the wider discursive sphere, but as with many other topics, is the knee-jerking really necessary on ILX where ideological variation from one poster to the next is slim to none when set against the general population?

"The timing of this seems strange, with an election in the offing."

Re: that IDS tweet he is a backbencher. In any case I doubt they will say anything at all about retirement or the care system at a manifesto if the Tories know what's good for them.