The Cheese Board, what are you drinking?

When you are using the term "natural wine," are you including stuff like George Descombes' cru Beaujolais wines? Cause that guy has been doing it nearly 30 years, his stuff is classic and not funky, and totally age worthy based on the acidity.

Or are you talking more about garage style wines of the newer wave natural wines? I like both, but there are very reliable natural wine producers.

Another guy I think is incredible is Jean Claude Rateau, who makes perfect little natural Cote du Beaune wines. They don't have deep tobacco and other flavors of bigger wines, but they are so pure it is amazing.

Al, what's the one on the right (I'm looking at the website)?

I feel like when most people use the term natural wine now they mean the newer wave, most of the more innovative Vin de France and Pays d'Oc coming out. My favorite beaujolais in the world is Jean Foillard, Morgan, Côte du Py and I know I have seen that bottle on restaurant winelists that specialize in natural wines because it technically falls under that category. I don't know if he would appreciate being called a natural winemaker since like Descombes they have been doing it for far longer than it became trendy. Like, vineyards in most countries have to be certified as organic or biodynamic to use that term but there are no rules or regulations about natural wine. And some vineyards practice these things (organic or biodynamic) without getting certified because they don't want to have a bad vintage in the vineyard and be unable to do anything about it.

I have a bottle of 2009 Clos Saron Syrah "Heart of Stone", sierra foothills. My friend interned there and brought a bottle back. I actually do wonder how it will be when I open it.

Foillard is awesome. I have a Côte du Py in my basement right now. I would totally consider him natural - because he is a non-interventionist.

I guess people like Foillard and Descombes wouldn't consider themselves natural wine makers partially because it is the only way they can imagine it being done. Like it is literally how to make wine.

On the other hand, I get what you mean about trendiness. I was at a natural wine bar in Bilbao a few years ago and talked with the bartender a while. He poured us a rosé txkoli that we liked and he told us that 90% of that wine is sent to the US.

i remember having a bottle of natty wine - which I've forgotten what it was, i think it was czech - and on the bottle it said "contains sulfites" and in an interview with the winemaker he said that he didn't actually put sulfites in it he just was being a stinker because he doesn't like the "none more pure" ethos, which i thought was funny

I remember you had a bottle of a white Nesterac the same weekend I did. Was it that one?

oh, i think my wine addled brain is conflating that nesterac with the other bottle of wine i had that night. i will never figure this out, but i will try

This pic is a bit ridiculous, hopefully it posts. It was a couple of years ago when I had 5 people over to play mahjong and we got a little overzealous in drinking wine (and cognac). I took this pic the next morning and it notably has Côte du Py and Moulin Touchais on the right. I would totally host a weird ilxor wine tasting in nyc.

https://ibb.co/BLvhLsP

damnit!

the picture works for me

oh ok good.

it didn't embed for me but i can see it in a new tab--jealous!!

oh i have images turned off so have to click all pictures as a link anyway

Oh, I just found this on the front page of Eater. It does a good job of summarizing what we were talking about re: natural wine. Oddly enough, the first time I had a glass of orange wine was at Dell'anima..

https://www.eater.com/2019/8/16/20806841/what-is-natural-wine-organic-how-to-order

Yerac, I recognized the Patrick Piuze Chablis right away when your photo popped up.

I would totally host a weird ilxor wine tasting in nyc.

Weird ilxors or weird wines? ;)

I have had two of the wines in the photo at the top of the Eater article within the last month, so they have me pegged. I highly recommend the Swick Marsanne: just delightful.

I had a bottle of that Debut Sake last night and had forgotten just how good it was. Relatively high acid (for a sake) which makes it really light and lively at first with great citric notes but it still has the richness of a muroka nama genshu. Truly exceptional.

Muroka - not charcoal filtered
Nama - un pasteurised
Genshu - undiluted

Next weekend I am planning a trip to Kamikawa Taisetsu Shuzo, a brewery that opened in the last 5 years which is a rare thing.

Not quite made it to Kamikawa Taisetsu yet, Sunday for that along with Kunimare Shuzo. I’m hitting Niseko Shuzou tomorrow and did Kita no Nishiki last weekend. I will have done more than half the breweries on Hokkaido by the time I am done.

Most Bachanalian of all though was the sale festival last Sunday. Whilst in Australia at a Sake tasting it is all small pour, spit buckets and very decorous. This was all about cups on lanyards, ice sculptures, mountains of food and very well dressed people passing out on couches.

cup on a lanyard?!?

I’ll have to take a photo, it was a little extra for the lanyard but it turned out to be useful in the eating and drinking melee, it would be a terrible thing to loose one’s ochocko.

Cheap IPAs and pale Ales. Closest off licence is LIDL supermarket.
Got into IPA a couple of months ago when i discovered it was one of the draught choices at a local venue/artspace. I think their one is a local firm whereas Lidl isn't.
Enjoy it though.

impulse bought a ancho chile liqueur just now. will try it neat, but it seems to have a lot of mixing potential (tequila, mezcal, rye/bourbon)

Spicy liquers makes me think of egg white and lapscang tea combos.

interesting. what is the purpose of the white, something to do with aesthetics or texture?

it gives it that foamy head (must blend). I am pretty sure I have had a drink like that with a jalapeno tequila.

yeah it adds a sort of foamy creamy-like texture to the drink.
or if you're vegan or not into eggs, you could use aquafava! garbanzo juice does the same job, as i learned at the house of an ilxor!

oops xp

oh, that's a great suggestion, too xp

hmmm, I was looking up the place (Mayamezcal) where I had this drink but it was a very very long time ago so of course it's no longer on the menu. It looks like there are a lot of egg white and mezcal cocktails out there.

i made one with watermelon juice, mezcal, lime, garbanzo juice (or egg white)
it was pretty simple and good! i love mezcal

a little cayenne on the top
mmmmm

going to third the recommendation for mezcal/tequila with ancho chile!

will do! am not very familiar w/mezcal. think i've had it once or twice a long time ago, but have been meaning to re-partake in some for awhile now.

made watermelon margaritas a few times a couple months ago, now i'm wondering why i didn't think to put any habanero in there. doy

https://www.dropbox.com/s/oqxzlq85hkuz3jq/IMG_4197.JPG?raw=1

hmmm. interesting.

Ok, I have decided I like it.

btw I finally got some WSET diploma results back and I passed the business unit exam and the tasting portion of the huge wine unit but didn't pass the theory. I think the global pass rate was around 35%. I know I was underprepared and had underestimated it too much but at least I don't have to retake the tasting portion again. In case anyone is interested here were the wines that were the blind tasting exam. It was four flights (3 wines per flight) over 2 hours. First flight was same grape, second same country or region, third quality assessment, fourth was whatever they wanted.

https://www.weinakademie.at/pdf/Unit3key.pdf

feel like the ABV on most of those is really high! i would have expected more of them coming in at 12-12.5

How does the palate even recover after that monster from the Barossa in the first flight?

Tracer, I was even surprised when I saw the alcohol because I started second guessing myself when all the alcohol seemed medium+ to high over and over. But bottle labeling, depending on the country, can have a small error tolerance of +/- 1.5 percent alcohol sometimes. And places like Argentina, California and Australia, any hotter climate or a hot vintage will always have higher alcohol.

Ed, I know people were mad about the amount of red wines, especially at 10am in the morning, and that they put that Mosel (because it was semi sweet) right before the gruner veltliner.

That first flight I kind of screwed up. Like, I got the countries right but for some reason I got it into my head early on that it was cabernet sauvignon even though I knew it didn't have enough tannin and I was tricking myself into thinking the wine was redder than it was. But I think the rest of my tasting notes were good enough that it didn't matter. I had wanted to change it to syrah but ran out of time and I had written in pen. After that I switched to pencil.

Contrats Yerac! How was that syrah? We are Thanksgiving-ing not far from that producer...

Thx! (although I am only halfway done and am dreading trying to finish). You should to that producer and tell me what you think. I didn't know that them at all but I knew it was from the USA based upon the tasting notes (so it was definitely more fruit finesse, bold). All the wines I think I had as good or very good, with maybe two outstandings. The wines are chosen and sent out from London so they can control the availability and variation and they have the local schools and master of wine program people doing day of tasting notes to grade against.

Everything about that Barossa Shiraz screams ‘do not drink me’, I’m sure it was much better than i’m Imagining.

It seems to be heavily reviewed (favorably) and in the $50USD price range.

Oh, I am remembering this now. I thought it was a high alcohol bordeaux at first. It was good.

Spent a very enjoyable afternoon in Venice a couple weeks ago at the end of vacation. We walked eight miles all over San Marco, San Polo, and Dorsoduro popping into five different wine bars and visiting four churches in between. Venice has a great little natural wine scene. Brought home a bottle of cloudy prosecco.

Planning to go to a fancy (for me) steak house tonight in DC (St Anselm's) and I'm most excited about the wine list. Already planning to have the Channing Daughter's Ramato orange pinot grigio, and...maybe...this carbonic cab franc from Maryland?

They serve my fave lambrusco but it's $14 a glass and I'm bringing a $15 bottle with me to drink at the hotel so thanks but no thanks.

https://m.imgur.com/a/O0ZpF2b

Picked up some dessert wine and vin jaune at auction for Christmas Day, and a few bits and bobs from Spain + Germany.

Drink the Envinate reasonably often, but I’m excited to try the others - hardly ever drink godello so particularly curious about the Del Vivo.

Anyone in London got recommendations for good independent wine shops? Something interesting/unstuffy etc. Italian deli near me (Bambuni in Nunhead) is my go-to if I run out and need a bottle, but their selection isn’t massive and a bit of variety would be great.

Wow, where do you go for wine auctions? I always assume they're for £50000 bottle of 150 year old stuff that's for investment rather than drinking.

I too am interested in London wine shop recs. Locally to me and BF I like Terroirs on Lordship Lane, which can tend to the expensive but they're also happy to enthuse about the cheaper end of their range. I find Theatre of Wine on Trafalgar Road in Greenwich pretty good, they keep an interesting range of sherry.

I love wine auctions. I used to have friends do Christies a lot and we had a group of friends that would split the cases between ourselves so we had more buying power and flexibility. I got a bottle of Maison Surrenne Unblended 1946 grande champagne COgnac and paid ~$45 for my bottle. I think it's $400-600 usually. I think I have about 4 inches in the bottle left.

just picked up a bottle of Patxaran