asking if this stuff is trolling- trolling?
?!?!?!
― phil neville jacket (darraghmac), Thursday, 15 August 2019 10:55 (four years ago) link
mutually consenting from macclesfield just as FFL comes under pressure at Chelsea- trolling or blatant opportunism?
― phil neville jacket (darraghmac), Thursday, 15 August 2019 13:39 (four years ago) link
xp that was my assumption tbh
― uptown top tanking (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 15 August 2019 13:59 (four years ago) link
Trolling begins at conception.
― pomenitul, Thursday, 15 August 2019 14:00 (four years ago) link
Just going to use this thread as an excuse to post more Kittelsen:
https://live.staticflickr.com/7228/7322054634_ce1856f729_b.jpg
― pomenitul, Thursday, 15 August 2019 14:02 (four years ago) link
You can see why Clarke or Harman are way more credible than nah come on this is just trolling now
― uptown top tanking (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 15 August 2019 13:55 (ten minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
?
― phil neville jacket (darraghmac), Thursday, 15 August 2019 14:06 (four years ago) link
Loose definition there: "saying a thing that stands up to no logic scrutiny or could even be a sincere belief beyond the desire to get a rise out of people you don't like"
― uptown top tanking (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 15 August 2019 14:12 (four years ago) link
ok we have baseline
ty for yr service nv
― phil neville jacket (darraghmac), Thursday, 15 August 2019 14:14 (four years ago) link
I mean I don't hold with hard definitions in general but baseline, yeah, that's something like a baseline
― uptown top tanking (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 15 August 2019 14:15 (four years ago) link
Next level of complexity is that the sincerity of the troll's statements should always be on some level plausible, like it's just possible a Swinson is so tied into her bubble that she cannot see the logical dishonesty there
― uptown top tanking (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 15 August 2019 14:17 (four years ago) link
gonna have to unpick that one maybe
― phil neville jacket (darraghmac), Thursday, 15 August 2019 14:20 (four years ago) link
Maybe not the thread to go deep into that specific example but roughly "I cannot support this candidate with a number of obvious qualifications for temporary leader of the government but hey I had a word with a couple of absolutely unqualified chums and wouldn't they be much better choices?"
― HOOS on first (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 15 August 2019 14:23 (four years ago) link
Now either she *knows* why they're ludicrous suggestions or she's so deep in her own game she can't see the ludicrousness. The outside observer's uncertainty is a very troll-like situation
― HOOS on first (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 15 August 2019 14:25 (four years ago) link
Schrödinger stuff, from outside yes
but does it rely on whether or not *she* is aware of the ludicrous uncertainty in order to be trolling (as i type it out it seems obvious that it does)
― phil neville jacket (darraghmac), Thursday, 15 August 2019 14:27 (four years ago) link
"a thing that stands up to no logic scrutiny or could even be a sincere belief beyond the desire to get a rise out of people" depends a lot on the individual oftentimes u have two ppl who both think the other person is trolling bc neither are capable of imagining a different perspective
― Mordy, Thursday, 15 August 2019 14:28 (four years ago) link
I don't think it does because death of the author and as Burroughs might've described it the troll inside
― HOOS on first (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 15 August 2019 14:29 (four years ago) link
Intentionality is not being taken into account this season, it's about whether the hand or arm are in an "unnatural" position IIRC.
― Tim, Thursday, 15 August 2019 14:29 (four years ago) link
xp
yeah sure Mordy but to the extent I'm engaging with this in good faith it is very much about perspective, social context, history and the speakers' knowledge of one another, like all language really
― HOOS on first (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 15 August 2019 14:31 (four years ago) link
you will ofc be aware that in such a designation the other variable is the observer's capacity for befuddlement
allow me to further muddy water by suggesting an advance troll technique:
the observer so puzzled by whether or not something is a troll or not that any third party onlooker (and indeed the original subject, the suspected troll themselves) might wonder whether or not the perplexed-possible-trollée is not infact a faux-trolled-troll
fuckit mordy got in there
― phil neville jacket (darraghmac), Thursday, 15 August 2019 14:32 (four years ago) link
lol tim
i think to troll one must be on at least some level intending to troll, so i disagree nv
― phil neville jacket (darraghmac), Thursday, 15 August 2019 14:33 (four years ago) link
we shall, possibly, have to lurk under that bridge when we come to it
For there to be trolling, intent is paramount. Except, of course, the most successful specimens rely on the trollee's structural inability to reliably decipher the troll's exact intentions. In other words, the best trolling may or may not be an instance of trolling at all.
Apologies for restating the obvious.
xps
― pomenitul, Thursday, 15 August 2019 14:33 (four years ago) link
Feel like an essential component of trolling is the ethos that self-amusement/-satisfaction > comity.
― Come and Rock Me, Hot Potatoes (Old Lunch), Thursday, 15 August 2019 14:34 (four years ago) link
eh yes and no
the intent is from the pov of the troll and therefore, while it can be unknown from outside, it can never have an actual value of unknown
― phil neville jacket (darraghmac), Thursday, 15 August 2019 14:35 (four years ago) link
Necessary but not sufficient, my criterion.
― Come and Rock Me, Hot Potatoes (Old Lunch), Thursday, 15 August 2019 14:36 (four years ago) link
'What if the troll doesn't know that he's trolling?'
– Donald Rumsfeld
― pomenitul, Thursday, 15 August 2019 14:36 (four years ago) link
was socrates a troll? what if yr asking a disingenuous question meant to provoke someone's assumption bc you believe there's value to be extracted from the conflict even if you don't necessarily 100% believe yr method of provocation inherently (asking questions etc)
― Mordy, Thursday, 15 August 2019 14:36 (four years ago) link
but the person intent upon behaving as if each new item in the world that does not please then were a troll, the trollée-näif if you will, what are we to make of this particular subtroll?
― phil neville jacket (darraghmac), Thursday, 15 August 2019 14:36 (four years ago) link
I think we're overlooking the possibility of Manchurian trolls
― HOOS on first (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 15 August 2019 14:37 (four years ago) link
like if that's trolling then trolling is an excellent thing we need more of but if trolling is more like disingenuously pissing ppl off for your own amusement and with no intellectual goal or intent then i agree it's v bad + a waste of time u kno
― Mordy, Thursday, 15 August 2019 14:37 (four years ago) link
It is that really inasmuch as there's a platonic form of the troll
― HOOS on first (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 15 August 2019 14:39 (four years ago) link
Trolling can be undertaken for purposes of self-amusement and pedagogy, i.e. one can troll for the sake of a purportedly greater cause. It is not inherently nihilistic.
― pomenitul, Thursday, 15 August 2019 14:39 (four years ago) link
how can we know the troller from the troll
― phil neville jacket (darraghmac), Thursday, 15 August 2019 14:39 (four years ago) link
But of course intellectual goals can muddy a lot of ground, it's troll's all the way down lads
― HOOS on first (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 15 August 2019 14:40 (four years ago) link
that is, note, the second yeats ref this past half hour and better content than is deserved
― phil neville jacket (darraghmac), Thursday, 15 August 2019 14:40 (four years ago) link
trolléd
look around the table. if you cant see the obvious troll, it's you
― phil neville jacket (darraghmac), Thursday, 15 August 2019 14:41 (four years ago) link
Like a long-legged troll upon the streamHis mind moves upon silence.
― pomenitul, Thursday, 15 August 2019 14:41 (four years ago) link
two trolls, both beautiful, one a placebo
― phil neville jacket (darraghmac), Thursday, 15 August 2019 14:43 (four years ago) link
Q: is this trolling
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cz0LY0I5bLA
― Come and Rock Me, Hot Potatoes (Old Lunch), Thursday, 15 August 2019 14:43 (four years ago) link
Those masterful images because completeGrew in pure mind but out of what began?
(Tip: out of trolling.)
― pomenitul, Thursday, 15 August 2019 14:43 (four years ago) link
the best lack all conviction while the worst are full of passionate intensity
^ good to know about trolls
― phil neville jacket (darraghmac), Thursday, 15 August 2019 14:45 (four years ago) link
true
― president of deluded fruitcakes anonymous (silby), Thursday, 15 August 2019 16:13 (four years ago) link
When i used to do it, there was both an entertainment purpose and a didactic purpose
― sarahell, Thursday, 15 August 2019 16:35 (four years ago) link
exemplary imo
― phil neville jacket (darraghmac), Thursday, 15 August 2019 18:14 (four years ago) link
truelling
― pomenitul, Thursday, 15 August 2019 19:07 (four years ago) link
yes:https://www.ancient.eu/img/r/p/500x600/1258.jpg
― mark s, Thursday, 15 August 2019 23:04 (four years ago) link
I raise you:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/fb/5f/67/fb5f6762cf620691aee85bfdca8e7e63.jpg
― pomenitul, Friday, 16 August 2019 08:06 (four years ago) link