The Cheese Board, what are you drinking?

I had a Cantillon Faro in Brussels that was amazing, no Faro I can buy in the UK has ever been up to scratch

Cantillon is probably the most difficult of the lambic producers to obtain here (USA), although that is changing. From 2014-2018 it became a real sport to drink and collect Cantillon seasonal releases.

Too bad we can't have a weird ilxor wine/beer tasting because everyone lives in every corner of the world.

xps:

...although much easier in Italy, parts of France & Japan.

I went to 2 Cantillon events in Tokyo recently Zwanze Day 2017 & a meet the brewers (Jean & Julie van Roy) last year and maybe 20-30 people showed up to each event. A similar event in a major metro in the USA would run $50-100 and sell out instantly via online ticketing.

Where did you find out about these Tokyo events, i’ll Be there soon?

I propose an ILXOR, weird drinking world tour. Happy to host Melbourne as it would be a good excuse to see if Mac Forbes will let me/us into his cellar again.

Not that I can get it down here but my favourite Kreik/Gueze producer is Drij Fonatainen. The Kriek is very tart and so refreshing on a hot day and the gueze is a delicious blend of beers of different ages, still sour but rich too.

will def look for that kriek (and the one Jersey Al mentioned). i was completely chuffed this past weekend to find one of my fave belgians in a store in LA, oerbier by de dolle brewery. i think it is a wee bit maltier than my fave Belgian which i think is seasonal and haven't seen since i left sf - Boskeun by the same brewers. strong real-deal Belgian ale.

I'm not quite sure how Ed arrive at his spelling of 3 Fonteinen but yes we are talking about the very same lambic brouwerij in Beersel, Belgium:

https://3fonteinen.be/en/

I found out about the events in Tokyo by being there at the right time I guess? Some locals mentioned the events to me and I was fortunate enough to be in town.

Every year or alternating year, de dolle ages their oerbier in Bourdeaux casks and they release a very limited amount. It is named "oerbier special reserva", it's a really nice oxidized, malty rustic flavor.

The very same, and what a great address for a brewery. I now from their menu that they have solders cask geuze - that is just ringing all my bells.

woah! and "omigod"
xpost

The first 4 beers listed on their menu are 4 types of geuze blended from lambic components aged in Sherry casks and/or via solera method. This beer is the sole reason I know what Yerac is talking about in her vin jaune notes lol.

I am looking up geuzes because I have never had one before. There is a lot of sediment in these? ( I probably should clarify too that vin jaune doesn't do solera/fractional blending, it just has that yeast film and oxidative aging.)

Most gueze are pretty yeasty.

right, i meant your tasting notes comparison of vin jaune to jerez/sherry solera method of course.

the way that the producers filter out the sediment is via decanting (rarely) or more commonly, by pouring out of a serving basket at a slight tilt so that the sediment settles and never enters the serving vessel.

i was out on sunday w/a guy who wanted to drop some cash on geuze...we split a boon black lambic which was as rough and rustic as i've ever tasted. no complaints tho.

boon black label (& girardin black label) used to fly under the radar, i feel like those days are over.

judging by what my buddy paid that is the case

i've been following this thread loosely....my one unoriginal observation is that a lot of natural wines share the yeast profile of the weird farmhouse ales i've been drinking for years. i'm not really sure what to make of it, mostly it's just funny when i read the hype about one or the other.

I need to get over my mental block of spending more on beer by the bottle.

I have a Cantillon Lou Pepe in the cellar that a friend gave me. I have to check whether it is the Geuze or Kriek. Only had the Rose de Gambrinus, which is very nice. When we went to Bruges a few years ago, 3 Fontainen and others were everywhere.

I have stumbled across Rose de Gambrinus on cask now and again and that gets me very excited. So zingy!

@yeraC: it's true, high-end beer prices have soared incredibly compared to wine.

The Lou Pepe series is Gueuze, Kriek & also Framboise. The Lou Pepe Kriek might be my favorite beer ever made. Quite a bit more local fruit in the bourdeaux puncheons, and a tamer, more complex base blend than their mainline offerings.

Trader Joes only has Lindemanns? I think there is not a single lambic in all of chile I think I can get something from TJs by this weekend.

i think i need to stop getting suckered into buying natty reds. wine store near me stocks a nice thoughtful selection and i want to support it but they're always so ripe and fruity. i'm almost never in the mood for things like this.

i do like the white and orange ones a bit more but i think with reds i need to stick to the classics.

It's such a crapshoot but expected? If you concentrate on low intervention so don't filter, fine, add preservatives to stabilize, shit is going to be surprising when you open the bottle. All that natural wine really should be drunk pretty soon after bottling.

WIth the reds I feel like there is no tannin to provide real support. it's all going to be light and fruity. I still like taking the gamble though.

agreed for the most part, my point is that it's just always kinda surprising in the same way. lack of tannins otm.

yeah there is always some unexpected petillance, sweet tartiness, thinness. I agree that I don't think I have ever had a very good to great red one.

which is a tough sell at 30 bucks a throw or whatever i paid for this one https://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=3067941

On a day to day to my last bottle of wine basis, I would choose a more classic style of wine, probably loire chenin, rioja or a southern italian red. But it's like music, you don't want one thing all the time and you like to constantly try new things. Natural wine is so all over the place. I don't love it but I get it. I posted a thing about it from something else here.

Wine

i do like the analogy in that post

call all destroyer: always ISO sonoma county beer/cider/wines. <3

lol i have a type; who knew?

when come out say hi. We were just in Sonoma last weekend.

https://i.imgur.com/ZT5jTih.jpg

oh man, i used to always get a moonlight way back in the day every time i would see it. twist of fate esb on hand pump. sometimes the death and taxes. really glad to see they are still able to compete with 5 million other bay area breweries

When you are using the term "natural wine," are you including stuff like George Descombes' cru Beaujolais wines? Cause that guy has been doing it nearly 30 years, his stuff is classic and not funky, and totally age worthy based on the acidity.

Or are you talking more about garage style wines of the newer wave natural wines? I like both, but there are very reliable natural wine producers.

Another guy I think is incredible is Jean Claude Rateau, who makes perfect little natural Cote du Beaune wines. They don't have deep tobacco and other flavors of bigger wines, but they are so pure it is amazing.

Al, what's the one on the right (I'm looking at the website)?

I feel like when most people use the term natural wine now they mean the newer wave, most of the more innovative Vin de France and Pays d'Oc coming out. My favorite beaujolais in the world is Jean Foillard, Morgan, Côte du Py and I know I have seen that bottle on restaurant winelists that specialize in natural wines because it technically falls under that category. I don't know if he would appreciate being called a natural winemaker since like Descombes they have been doing it for far longer than it became trendy. Like, vineyards in most countries have to be certified as organic or biodynamic to use that term but there are no rules or regulations about natural wine. And some vineyards practice these things (organic or biodynamic) without getting certified because they don't want to have a bad vintage in the vineyard and be unable to do anything about it.

I have a bottle of 2009 Clos Saron Syrah "Heart of Stone", sierra foothills. My friend interned there and brought a bottle back. I actually do wonder how it will be when I open it.

Foillard is awesome. I have a Côte du Py in my basement right now. I would totally consider him natural - because he is a non-interventionist.

I guess people like Foillard and Descombes wouldn't consider themselves natural wine makers partially because it is the only way they can imagine it being done. Like it is literally how to make wine.

On the other hand, I get what you mean about trendiness. I was at a natural wine bar in Bilbao a few years ago and talked with the bartender a while. He poured us a rosé txkoli that we liked and he told us that 90% of that wine is sent to the US.

i remember having a bottle of natty wine - which I've forgotten what it was, i think it was czech - and on the bottle it said "contains sulfites" and in an interview with the winemaker he said that he didn't actually put sulfites in it he just was being a stinker because he doesn't like the "none more pure" ethos, which i thought was funny

I remember you had a bottle of a white Nesterac the same weekend I did. Was it that one?

oh, i think my wine addled brain is conflating that nesterac with the other bottle of wine i had that night. i will never figure this out, but i will try

This pic is a bit ridiculous, hopefully it posts. It was a couple of years ago when I had 5 people over to play mahjong and we got a little overzealous in drinking wine (and cognac). I took this pic the next morning and it notably has Côte du Py and Moulin Touchais on the right. I would totally host a weird ilxor wine tasting in nyc.

https://ibb.co/BLvhLsP

damnit!

the picture works for me

oh ok good.

it didn't embed for me but i can see it in a new tab--jealous!!

oh i have images turned off so have to click all pictures as a link anyway

Oh, I just found this on the front page of Eater. It does a good job of summarizing what we were talking about re: natural wine. Oddly enough, the first time I had a glass of orange wine was at Dell'anima..

https://www.eater.com/2019/8/16/20806841/what-is-natural-wine-organic-how-to-order

Yerac, I recognized the Patrick Piuze Chablis right away when your photo popped up.

I would totally host a weird ilxor wine tasting in nyc.

Weird ilxors or weird wines? ;)

I have had two of the wines in the photo at the top of the Eater article within the last month, so they have me pegged. I highly recommend the Swick Marsanne: just delightful.

I had a bottle of that Debut Sake last night and had forgotten just how good it was. Relatively high acid (for a sake) which makes it really light and lively at first with great citric notes but it still has the richness of a muroka nama genshu. Truly exceptional.

Muroka - not charcoal filtered
Nama - un pasteurised
Genshu - undiluted

Next weekend I am planning a trip to Kamikawa Taisetsu Shuzo, a brewery that opened in the last 5 years which is a rare thing.