Which artists legacies have improved/worsened during the 2010s?

this doesn't seem at all supported by the evidence, cite examples where Lennon did this kind of thing plz

― Οὖτις, Wednesday, August 14, 2019 11:15 AM (forty-five minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I mean Im not super invested in this beyond that its a silly fun thing to think abt but I cant be the first person in history to think that Lennon seemed like he sometimes enjoyed feeling like the smartest person in the room, doesnt seem like the wildest stretch to imagine that he would get more challopsy as he aged.

I don't think enjoying feeling like the smartest person in the room = holding challops, that's a weird leap

knee jerk contrarianism is a substitute for actually being the smartest person in the room for those who definitely aren't. it's a way to get some attention for your opinion even when it's obviously completely wrong

ha – I never got the sense that Lennon lorded over people; he was a sardonic and often mean fucker, but he genuinely liked it when someone, whether Paul or George or Yoko or Nilsson, responded to him in kind.

yeah he liked being challenged

i am enjoying imagining a 75 year old john lennon appearing on joe rogan and talking about ancient aliens and i wont let ppl who know more about john lennon than me take that away from me

Xxpost
You forgot Ringo !

the if-lennon-had-lived turn this thread took is huge, and while much is wild speculation he definitely would have been the first beatle on joe rogan

Challop: Lennon on Joe Rogan would be good not bad.

Screw that, he'd record his own podcast in the Dakota

DGAF with John Lennon (it's a podcast)

Well, Ringo turned into a grumpy miserable old git and George was already there so maybe John would have gone for the hat trick.

Lennon was already 40 when he died, how much more do you guys think he would have changed btw. 40 and 80?

Also if you’re gonna engage in Boomer bashing, you have to play by the rules of the dumb thing, you can’t pretend someone born in 1940 is a Boomer. Just make yr generalizations about “old people”

― 60... 90... 120 Minute IPA (morrisp)

i mean, shit, you want to hear about how much i've changed between 40 and 43?

and i did specifically mention that his boomer status is questionable, for me i don't know he's close enough

Well, Ringo turned into a grumpy miserable old git and George was already there so maybe John would have gone for the hat trick.

― Euripedes' Trousers (Tom D.), Thursday, August 15, 2019

tbf George was a miserable old git in 1964 and had turned it into low key comedy gold for the next three decades.

to talk about something other than john lennon i was thinking yesterday about how i've come to re-evaluate the "anonymous" weirdos, people like the residents and jandek. when i was younger they seemed like the ne plus ultra of disturbed and bizarre music. now, i don't know, they just seem like sweet old eccentrics. again a lot of that is probably grading on a curve against other boomers (i'm hesitant about just going with "old people" because i sort of am "old people"), but i do genuinely get the impression charles bobuck was a sweet and likeable person.

tbf George was a miserable old git in 1964 and had turned it into low key comedy gold for the next three decades.

― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn)

my general impression of george's personality is "oh yeah he was raised Catholic"

Imo 75 year old John would’ve taken the piss out of Paul’s hair, George as the “dark horse”, Ringo’s “peace and love” nonsense and himself esp. anything to do with peace or anything the media actually took him seriously or beyond music

I know earlier we discussed the idea of Zappa aging into a cranky facts and logic guy but imho Lennon would have been just as likely a candidate for that

to talk about something other than john lennon i was thinking yesterday about how i've come to re-evaluate the "anonymous" weirdos, people like the residents and jandek. when i was younger they seemed like the ne plus ultra of disturbed and bizarre music. now, i don't know, they just seem like sweet old eccentrics. again a lot of that is probably grading on a curve against other boomers (i'm hesitant about just going with "old people" because i sort of am "old people"), but i do genuinely get the impression charles bobuck was a sweet and likeable person.

Yeah, I think such is an excellent example of how the ~internet~ has demystified music/musicians over the years. (it also didn't hurt/help that Jandek eventually emerged from the shadows and began to play shows!)

The Residents are one of those artists that I for no discernible good reason staunchly resist looking into. I have a vague idea of their schtick but I could never be bothered to pursue it.

What about Mayo Thompson? I finally got around to listening to him lately after hearing his name and reputed influences for seemingly forever and while his Corky's record seems amazing I read an interview w him in which he seems pretentious to the point of almost veering off into sociopathic territory? i dunno if that makes any sense. i guess some ppl's brains just work differently. he didn't seem sinister, rather just vaguely obnoxious?

Oh, and more to the point of the thread topic, it always amazes me how into eighties music "young" people are. I guess commentaries on the crunching and sandwiching of time effect have been done near to death (don't worry, I'm not hungry!) but it's as if people who grew up in the eighties were mad for big band music. Millenials and whatever the generation after them are supposed to be fucking love The Cure and New Order and Whitney Houston.

Lester Bangs on Lennon's death:

"Did you watch the TV specials on Tuesday night? Did you see all those people standing in the street in front of the Dakota apartment where Lennon lived singing "Hey Jude"? What do you think the real -- cynical, sneeringly sarcastic, witheringly witty and iconoclastic -- John Lennon would have said about that?

John Lennon at his best despised cheap sentiment and had to learn the hard way that once you've made your mark on history those who can't will be so grateful they'll turn it into a cage for you."

What about Mayo Thompson? I finally got around to listening to him lately after hearing his name and reputed influences for seemingly forever and while his Corky's record seems amazing I read an interview w him in which he seems pretentious to the point of almost veering off into sociopathic territory? i dunno if that makes any sense. i guess some ppl's brains just work differently. he didn't seem sinister, rather just vaguely obnoxious?

What interview was this? Mayo is very sweet, AFAIK

"those people don't speak for john lennon, i speak for john lennon!"

Lennon was also the guy who in his last interview got emotional on learning that "Happy Xmas (War is Over)" had become a standard in England and admitted to being a sentimentalist "just as much as Paul." Dude had contradictions!

I know earlier we discussed the idea of Zappa aging into a cranky facts and logic guy but imho Lennon would have been just as likely a candidate for that

― Simon H., Thursday, August 15, 2019 7:48 AM (one hour ago)

john lennon was a leftist edge-lord and would be telling the truth about syria

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CXQiStxWwAEEM9u.jpg

Yes, idea that Lennon was immune to sentiment is nonsense, Goodnight, Beautiful Boy, Oh Yoko etc Tough exterior, soft centre.

Any one of us would've gotten as sick of the singing as Yoko did.

he was a born asshole and spent his whole life pushing against that tendency in himself. with mixed results, sure, but he had a family he loved and who supported him and he didn't give up. i don't know what that would he'd look like today but assuming he would turn into some execrable New Atheist is a big assumption!

What interview was this? Mayo is very sweet, AFAIK

I think it was this one? http://mattendahl.blogspot.com/2012/06/interview-with-mayo-thompson-part-one.html

To me it reads as really pretentious and kind of, "well, we were blowing everyone out of the water and no one understood what we were on about bc we were so far ahead of the game"

Which, whatever. I think he WAS making interesting and great stuff at the time which WAS distinct from much of what was going on, and I get that ppl who find themselves in that position sometimes just have like entirely different brain stuff going on which doesn't necessarily translate well into making good conversation at cocktail parties or whatever. But that said, there's something kind of exhausting about the way he communicates at least in that interview. like, come down to earth or whatever.

I recall reading this before... I think it's very interesting!

now I'm thinking what's going to be laughably passé in 2029... like who is the GADPY of 2019? who has the furthest to fall?

GADPY probably my least favorite ILM acronym, can never remember what it refers to and then of course it's something ridiculously nerdy and specific

it stands for Gaye Bykers on Acid

who has the furthest to fall?

Taylor Swift. Beyonce.

GADPY probably my least favorite ILM acronym, can never remember what it refers to and then of course it's something ridiculously nerdy and specific

― Οὖτις, Thursday, August 15, 2019 9:45 AM (eight minutes ago)

ILM didn't originate this

? who did?

I recall reading this before... I think it's very interesting!

I dunno. He just comes across as kind of insufferable to me. for an interview, there is no "I and thou" element -- it reads more as just him downloading data into the interviewer's brain. And a good part of the data seems to involve him casually comparing himself to Mozart and looking down on his (Mayo's) contemporaries, w the exception of maybe Ayler and Coltrane. I could get down with all of that in other circumstances, but there is something about his tone that I find off-putting.

for example,
We found that logic played a role in our thinking and in nobody else's. It was very simple to operate within parameters; to set up formal problems and work the logical parameters as they appear. Say you want to put some scrutiny on the idea of instruments. You find that on that record. So we start with, “This is a guitar. It has six strings. They are usually not tuned like this. They're played like this, but they usually don't sound like this.” [“Free Guitar”] is an exploration of the guitar as a set piece, as a trap, as an instrument: a thing that produces a certain kind of sound. There is no generic commitment to anything on that record. Idiom is deployed … not at all. There's no quotation in it, as such, there's merely instantiation. And so, expectation and anticipation become quite abstract. You don't sit there and wait for a chorus. If you're waiting for the chorus, you'll find out after so many minutes, "Doesn't look like there's gonna be a chorus here." That kind of stuff; that's what I mean by logic: creating a logical environment in which you set up a number of operators, you specify relations between them, and the results are what you might call facts. Where logic itself is turned into a kind of score.

I guess I get what he is saying but I find the way he talks, let alone the concept he is describing, to be really charmless. Haven't read the John Lennon Playboy interview, but I suspect its oodles of magnitude more amusing.

(pretend there is an apostrophe up there)

Here's how the interviewer frames the discussion, I doubt Mayo's detailed and technical/theoretical responses were unwelcome:

I was particularly interested in the musical "logic" used to record the album Coconut Hotel. I suspected that the Red Krayola was essentially exploring "free improvisation", contemporaneous with groups like AMM and Musica Elettronica Viva.

(I also doubt Mayo would give the same kind of responses in a Playboy interview, or be asked the same questions!)

xps Shakey I was mostly thinking of Animal Collective, like who is the 2009 Animal Collective of 2019

Here's a recent-ish online Q&A sesh w/Mayo

sidewiththeseeds
What are your thoughts on the Velvet Underground?

MayoThompson
Love them to death

Yeah... I guess when i read interviews w ppl whose music I like I am generally pleasantly surprised by how humble and self-effacing they are. He just rubs me the wrong way in this interview... Which, is fine and to be expected. He's a weirdo. But not my preferred sort I guess.

Thanks for that reddit link (words I never imagined I would type!!!!) he really does seem like a sweet dude. I guess it was just the context of the interview itself that I posted. Or indigestion issues of its reader/would-be interpreter.

I know, I *hate* linking to Reddit, lol

side with the seeds
What are your thoughts on Gaye Bykers on Acid

MayoThompson
Grebo is where it's at

Heh, among other issues the format is maddening to navigate. But, for whatever reasons the AMAs manage to shine at times. (am particularly thinking of the recent Bernie Sanders, David Berman ones...)

I am a big Felt guy and was skimming to see if anyone on there asked him about producing The Poem of the River. iirc Lawrence supposedly recorded his vocals in the dark for that one? And now repudiates the production i think? I personally think it's a very warm-sounding record. The guitar tones alone, wow.

who is the 2009 Animal Collective of 2019

I don't know if there's an answer to that since 2019 hasn't had an album that has dominated the critical conversation like MPP did in 2009.

So at this point, I'm just gonna say Big Thief.

Or Lana Del Rey, since I could see this being the last year where she puts out something that gets a lot of recognition.

^right, that's closer to what I mean. 2009 AC isn't just MPP, it was the peak of a decade of gradually increasing critical respect + (relative) commercial success

LDR fits, first album in 2012 and NFR looks like it could be her masterpiece