The Cheese Board, what are you drinking?

ohhhh i am in love with Moulin Touchais. I wanted to visit when I was in the Loire but I was too anxious about speaking only in french about something I really liked. Were they married in 79?

you may have already done this but if you google Moulin Touchais verticle, they host verticle tastings of older wines and people write up good notes. I usually compare them when I find some bottles and am trying to figure out what I want. I see they just did one recently.
https://gregsherwoodmw.com/2019/05/05/tasting-the-magical-sweet-wines-of-moulin-touchais-through-the-ages/

xp yeah it was their 40th this year - scary stuff!

Thanks for the link! I’ll definitely be interested in digging out some more vintages for comparison. Interesting how his notes differed somewhat from my experience - I guess there must be a fair amount of bottle variation (also he might have a slightly more developed palate than me who knows)

kinda blowing my mind that there's a "good" botrytis, it is also the bane of weed growers fyi

― sleeve

This makes me think of huitlacoche, corn smut, which can be both a delicacy and a scourge to farmers. I love it. Sry for derail!

xpost his notes differ from other tasters too. It's amusing to read the difference. I think there are 4-5 easily found online..

i had no clue about botrytis in weed. It was interesting to read.

learning all kinds of things up on the cheese board :)

RE: acid/sweet:

If you care to dip your toes into the world of beer, Belgian lambic (esp. the fruited ones) offer a nice balance of acid and sweetness. Kriek (tart cherry) lambic is one of my favorite beverages on the planet, but I would say you probably should be unafraid of brettanomyces (notes of horse blanket, straw) firstly.

(brettanomyces once being a bane to wine producers, now embraced by some in the natural wine community)

Kriek (tart cherry) lambic is one of my favorite beverages on the planet

cosign 100%

yeah brett is a wine fault but some people love/want it. I love lambics but don't think I have really drunk very much off them in years and years.

If the stars ever align again, I will rectify that!

Very curious about what some examples of this type might be?

― There's more Italy than necessary. (in orbit), Wednesday, 14 August 2019 13:42 (three hours ago) link

Yerac dropped some knowledge (of course) re: dessert wines. I will just add that I was thinking of stuff like an off dry Riesling or Chenin Blanc, where you have some residual sugar and the perception of sweetness , but backed up by racy acidity.

i like a riesling with sweetness and acidity and some petrol on the nose

something from alsace

I want to come to a ILXOR weird wine drinking party. (Said, very much in the style of Ted Danson’s George Christopher character from bored to Death).

I love lambic but think I've only had framboise, which is way too sweet on its own, but mixed with something like Hoegaarden (~1:5) = maybe my fave refreshment for warm weather. Was always scared kriek might be cough medicine-y. But I feel like there are responsible people on this thread that wld not steer me wrongly

Guessing I loved that nat wine the other day partly due to the fact that I like the Bretty things

Xpost all around

is it framboise lambic season? hmm, maybe

Many of the commercial lambic producers in/around Brussels back-sweeten their Kriek/Framboise/Faro to make it a little more palatable for the modern palate, but the traditional HORAL producers shun this practice. So if you're only sample Mort Subite or Lindemans, you may be in for a surprise to have, for example, a 3 Fonteinen fruited lambic.

Framboise/Frambozen lambic is a bit more acid that I prefer, esp. compared to a nice nuanced Kriek.

gizza gueuze

Ahhh, tres interessant, thx!

Xpost

I had a Cantillon Faro in Brussels that was amazing, no Faro I can buy in the UK has ever been up to scratch

Cantillon is probably the most difficult of the lambic producers to obtain here (USA), although that is changing. From 2014-2018 it became a real sport to drink and collect Cantillon seasonal releases.

Too bad we can't have a weird ilxor wine/beer tasting because everyone lives in every corner of the world.

xps:

...although much easier in Italy, parts of France & Japan.

I went to 2 Cantillon events in Tokyo recently Zwanze Day 2017 & a meet the brewers (Jean & Julie van Roy) last year and maybe 20-30 people showed up to each event. A similar event in a major metro in the USA would run $50-100 and sell out instantly via online ticketing.

Where did you find out about these Tokyo events, i’ll Be there soon?

I propose an ILXOR, weird drinking world tour. Happy to host Melbourne as it would be a good excuse to see if Mac Forbes will let me/us into his cellar again.

Not that I can get it down here but my favourite Kreik/Gueze producer is Drij Fonatainen. The Kriek is very tart and so refreshing on a hot day and the gueze is a delicious blend of beers of different ages, still sour but rich too.

will def look for that kriek (and the one Jersey Al mentioned). i was completely chuffed this past weekend to find one of my fave belgians in a store in LA, oerbier by de dolle brewery. i think it is a wee bit maltier than my fave Belgian which i think is seasonal and haven't seen since i left sf - Boskeun by the same brewers. strong real-deal Belgian ale.

I'm not quite sure how Ed arrive at his spelling of 3 Fonteinen but yes we are talking about the very same lambic brouwerij in Beersel, Belgium:

https://3fonteinen.be/en/

I found out about the events in Tokyo by being there at the right time I guess? Some locals mentioned the events to me and I was fortunate enough to be in town.

Every year or alternating year, de dolle ages their oerbier in Bourdeaux casks and they release a very limited amount. It is named "oerbier special reserva", it's a really nice oxidized, malty rustic flavor.

The very same, and what a great address for a brewery. I now from their menu that they have solders cask geuze - that is just ringing all my bells.

woah! and "omigod"
xpost

The first 4 beers listed on their menu are 4 types of geuze blended from lambic components aged in Sherry casks and/or via solera method. This beer is the sole reason I know what Yerac is talking about in her vin jaune notes lol.

I am looking up geuzes because I have never had one before. There is a lot of sediment in these? ( I probably should clarify too that vin jaune doesn't do solera/fractional blending, it just has that yeast film and oxidative aging.)

Most gueze are pretty yeasty.

right, i meant your tasting notes comparison of vin jaune to jerez/sherry solera method of course.

the way that the producers filter out the sediment is via decanting (rarely) or more commonly, by pouring out of a serving basket at a slight tilt so that the sediment settles and never enters the serving vessel.

i was out on sunday w/a guy who wanted to drop some cash on geuze...we split a boon black lambic which was as rough and rustic as i've ever tasted. no complaints tho.

boon black label (& girardin black label) used to fly under the radar, i feel like those days are over.

judging by what my buddy paid that is the case

i've been following this thread loosely....my one unoriginal observation is that a lot of natural wines share the yeast profile of the weird farmhouse ales i've been drinking for years. i'm not really sure what to make of it, mostly it's just funny when i read the hype about one or the other.

I need to get over my mental block of spending more on beer by the bottle.

I have a Cantillon Lou Pepe in the cellar that a friend gave me. I have to check whether it is the Geuze or Kriek. Only had the Rose de Gambrinus, which is very nice. When we went to Bruges a few years ago, 3 Fontainen and others were everywhere.

I have stumbled across Rose de Gambrinus on cask now and again and that gets me very excited. So zingy!

@yeraC: it's true, high-end beer prices have soared incredibly compared to wine.

The Lou Pepe series is Gueuze, Kriek & also Framboise. The Lou Pepe Kriek might be my favorite beer ever made. Quite a bit more local fruit in the bourdeaux puncheons, and a tamer, more complex base blend than their mainline offerings.

Trader Joes only has Lindemanns? I think there is not a single lambic in all of chile I think I can get something from TJs by this weekend.

i think i need to stop getting suckered into buying natty reds. wine store near me stocks a nice thoughtful selection and i want to support it but they're always so ripe and fruity. i'm almost never in the mood for things like this.

i do like the white and orange ones a bit more but i think with reds i need to stick to the classics.

It's such a crapshoot but expected? If you concentrate on low intervention so don't filter, fine, add preservatives to stabilize, shit is going to be surprising when you open the bottle. All that natural wine really should be drunk pretty soon after bottling.

WIth the reds I feel like there is no tannin to provide real support. it's all going to be light and fruity. I still like taking the gamble though.

agreed for the most part, my point is that it's just always kinda surprising in the same way. lack of tannins otm.

yeah there is always some unexpected petillance, sweet tartiness, thinness. I agree that I don't think I have ever had a very good to great red one.

which is a tough sell at 30 bucks a throw or whatever i paid for this one https://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=3067941

On a day to day to my last bottle of wine basis, I would choose a more classic style of wine, probably loire chenin, rioja or a southern italian red. But it's like music, you don't want one thing all the time and you like to constantly try new things. Natural wine is so all over the place. I don't love it but I get it. I posted a thing about it from something else here.

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