""trolling""- has the meaning changed?

dt?

teems if you prefer yes

teems and contortions apply

this thread is like James Joyce with a Twitter account

to be trolling his whoop and all of them truetotypes in missam-

— Finnegans Wake (@finnegansreader) December 28, 2013

this thread is like James Joyce with a Twitter account

― an incoherent crustacean (MatthewK), Wednesday, 14 August 2019 12:24 (fifty-three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

yes but does the fact that its inconprehensible mean thats its trolling?

inconprehensible

Very Joycean spelling. Kudos.

kudonts imo

i could throw a thome and hittim from here

disagreeing about politics, but probably agreeing about underlying principles- trolling?

disagreeing about a movie sequel- trolling?

lada can we sort this out, for ilx, in 2019,

asking if this stuff is trolling- trolling?

?!?!?!

mutually consenting from macclesfield just as FFL comes under pressure at Chelsea- trolling or blatant opportunism?

xp that was my assumption tbh

Trolling begins at conception.

Just going to use this thread as an excuse to post more Kittelsen:

https://live.staticflickr.com/7228/7322054634_ce1856f729_b.jpg

You can see why Clarke or Harman are way more credible than nah come on this is just trolling now

― uptown top tanking (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 15 August 2019 13:55 (ten minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

?

Loose definition there: "saying a thing that stands up to no logic scrutiny or could even be a sincere belief beyond the desire to get a rise out of people you don't like"

ok we have baseline

ty for yr service nv

I mean I don't hold with hard definitions in general but baseline, yeah, that's something like a baseline

Next level of complexity is that the sincerity of the troll's statements should always be on some level plausible, like it's just possible a Swinson is so tied into her bubble that she cannot see the logical dishonesty there

gonna have to unpick that one maybe

Maybe not the thread to go deep into that specific example but roughly "I cannot support this candidate with a number of obvious qualifications for temporary leader of the government but hey I had a word with a couple of absolutely unqualified chums and wouldn't they be much better choices?"

Now either she *knows* why they're ludicrous suggestions or she's so deep in her own game she can't see the ludicrousness. The outside observer's uncertainty is a very troll-like situation

Schrödinger stuff, from outside yes

but does it rely on whether or not *she* is aware of the ludicrous uncertainty in order to be trolling (as i type it out it seems obvious that it does)

"a thing that stands up to no logic scrutiny or could even be a sincere belief beyond the desire to get a rise out of people" depends a lot on the individual oftentimes u have two ppl who both think the other person is trolling bc neither are capable of imagining a different perspective

I don't think it does because death of the author and as Burroughs might've described it the troll inside

Intentionality is not being taken into account this season, it's about whether the hand or arm are in an "unnatural" position IIRC.

xp

yeah sure Mordy but to the extent I'm engaging with this in good faith it is very much about perspective, social context, history and the speakers' knowledge of one another, like all language really

you will ofc be aware that in such a designation the other variable is the observer's capacity for befuddlement

allow me to further muddy water by suggesting an advance troll technique:

the observer so puzzled by whether or not something is a troll or not that any third party onlooker (and indeed the original subject, the suspected troll themselves) might wonder whether or not the perplexed-possible-trollée is not infact a faux-trolled-troll

fuckit mordy got in there

lol tim

i think to troll one must be on at least some level intending to troll, so i disagree nv

we shall, possibly, have to lurk under that bridge when we come to it

For there to be trolling, intent is paramount. Except, of course, the most successful specimens rely on the trollee's structural inability to reliably decipher the troll's exact intentions. In other words, the best trolling may or may not be an instance of trolling at all.

Apologies for restating the obvious.

xps

Feel like an essential component of trolling is the ethos that self-amusement/-satisfaction > comity.

eh yes and no

the intent is from the pov of the troll and therefore, while it can be unknown from outside, it can never have an actual value of unknown

xp

Necessary but not sufficient, my criterion.

'What if the troll doesn't know that he's trolling?'

– Donald Rumsfeld

was socrates a troll? what if yr asking a disingenuous question meant to provoke someone's assumption bc you believe there's value to be extracted from the conflict even if you don't necessarily 100% believe yr method of provocation inherently (asking questions etc)

but the person intent upon behaving as if each new item in the world that does not please then were a troll, the trollée-näif if you will, what are we to make of this particular subtroll?

I think we're overlooking the possibility of Manchurian trolls

like if that's trolling then trolling is an excellent thing we need more of but if trolling is more like disingenuously pissing ppl off for your own amusement and with no intellectual goal or intent then i agree it's v bad + a waste of time u kno

It is that really inasmuch as there's a platonic form of the troll

Trolling can be undertaken for purposes of self-amusement and pedagogy, i.e. one can troll for the sake of a purportedly greater cause. It is not inherently nihilistic.

how can we know the troller from the troll

But of course intellectual goals can muddy a lot of ground, it's troll's all the way down lads

that is, note, the second yeats ref this past half hour and better content than is deserved

trolléd

look around the table. if you cant see the obvious troll, it's you

Like a long-legged troll upon the stream
His mind moves upon silence.