New Apple Lust Objects

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I'm really pretty sure that Quartz Extreme won't composite the 2D desktop in software.

― JW (ex machina), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 18:27 (seventeen years ago) link

Well, since it's apparently turned on in the intel mac minis, I don't see why not. And it would explain why they're so goddamn slow.

― stet (stet), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 18:32 (seventeen years ago) link

Some stuff will be, but if you're arguing that the entire display is being treated as a "dumb" framebuffer, you're a fucking moron.

― JW (ex machina), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 18:33 (seventeen years ago) link

No, I'm not saying that. But QE draws *everything on-screen* as 3D OpenGL textures. Which this chip sucks at handling.

Christ, it doesn't even have its own graphics memory. I thought "fast ram" went out with the Amiga.

― stet (stet), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 18:35 (seventeen years ago) link

I think it is good that Apple is simplifying its product line. Now the only missing piece (other than servers, I guess?) are the Mactel desktops!

My prediction is that we won't see Mactel desktops until Adobe has announced a definite shipping date for a Intel-compiled version of Photoshop.

My secret prediction/desire is that Apple should just buy Adobe outright.

― LOL Thomas (Chris Barrus), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 18:36 (seventeen years ago) link

Adobe's handling of their Mac application build architecture has been SHITE since the OS X transition was announced. They did not even begin to properly invest in moving away from CodeWarrior until they got pwned by the Mactel announcement.

― JW (ex machina), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 18:49 (seventeen years ago) link

what about Apple selling OS X to Adobe?

― Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 18:50 (seventeen years ago) link

Jon OTM about Adobe -- although in their defence they say that XCode isn't as good as Codewarrior for large apps yet.

Even if intel Photoshop was out already, Rosetta can't handle cross-arch plugins, so PPC code can't run as a plugin to an intel app. So all the Photoshop plugins will have to be redone as well.

― stet (stet), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 19:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Everyone is talking like this computer and it's shitty integrated graphics is too slow to run OS X. I am typing this on an iBook G3 700 with 16mb of VRAM running Tiger, which will be four years old this Summer. It's plenty usable. It's so usable that I am in no rush to get the new MacBook, which is what I'm planning to do at some point.

I have no doubt, however, that the new MacBook will be much, much faster. There will be no noticable lag due to drawing to the screen (games notwithstanding). It would be faster if it had dedicated graphics. It would also cost more.

p.s. USEFUL: http://store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Images/comparison_chart.html

p.p.s. £130 for 20GB and black plastic? GET TO FUCK.

― caek (caek), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 19:06 (seventeen years ago) link

I'm not going to buy another Apple computer until they offer them in sage again.

― Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 19:08 (seventeen years ago) link

they say that XCode isn't as good as Codewarrior for large apps yet.

XCode is just an interface to GNU building tools. They are total turds and full of shit. No one would build as big a project as any Adobe app using XCode's built in interface. (hint: Microsoft doesn't use the Visual Studio GUI to compile Windows XP)

― JW (ex machina), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 19:19 (seventeen years ago) link

If Adobe wasn't so entrenched in their most key markets and I were a major shareholder, I would be PISSED that they are leaving this huge window of opportunity open.

OH WAIT, AFTER EFFECTS IS EFFECTIVELY DEAD THANKS TO FINAL CUT.

― JW (ex machina), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 19:22 (seventeen years ago) link

Premiere is effectively dead thanks to final cut (and low end AVID), After effects limps on.

― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 19:26 (seventeen years ago) link

Actually, that's not strictly true there is an awful lot of premiere still out there as it's still that bit cheaper than Avid Xpress Pro or FCP even though both of those make a better deal than premiere, especially Final Cut Studio, but people will just look at the hardwrae requirements and above all the sticker price and pick Premiere, just be thankful Pinnacle is gone.

― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 19:33 (seventeen years ago) link

So, eh, Jon, how can you think that Xcode is shit and still be cross at Adobe for not switching to it (the only way to get fast intel switchover) already?

― stet (stet), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 19:37 (seventeen years ago) link

err I meant that the XCode gui is a pos not GNU tools.

― JW (ex machina), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 19:41 (seventeen years ago) link

It's less of an Xcode issue than a Objective-C issue. If your app was written in Objective-C recompilation was relatively straight forward but Objective-C is less portable with Windows and besides, Adobe have so much legacy code which they are hardly going to junk. Yes, Xcode supports C++ but even apple admitted that even if you were in Xcode and C++ porting to intel would take a lot more work.

apple should really come out with red box or yellow box or whatever colour box it was that would allow cocoa apps to run on top of windows to stimulate Objective-C development.

― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 19:42 (seventeen years ago) link

Although codewarrior won't compile for intel macs, so it still boils down to using XCode, no?

― stet (stet), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 19:49 (seventeen years ago) link

Hoo the black one does look cool but I'm not sure about the keyboard.

― stet (stet), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 19:57 (seventeen years ago) link

Indeed. They look a bit Spectrum. I assume the white ones are the same.

http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/sinclair/images/spectrum_48k.jpg

― caek (caek), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 20:01 (seventeen years ago) link

Screen is Shiny as hell

― stet (stet), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 20:09 (seventeen years ago) link

WTF WITH THE KEYBOARD

actually the whole thing looks horrible!!!

http://images.appleinsider.com/macbook-4.jpg

― Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 20:10 (seventeen years ago) link

Sony X-Black screens are very glossy but they seem to be pretty good to work with very little glare.

― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 20:14 (seventeen years ago) link

YOU CAN USE THE COCOA TOOLKIT FROM C++ OBJECTIVE C IS NOT THE ISSUE.

Anyway, OS X public beta has been available since September 2000. They should have ported to using Xcode by CS2 (April 2005)

― JW (ex machina), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 20:23 (seventeen years ago) link

But you said Xcode was shit! And there is no reason to move to it except for intel support, which they didn't tell anyone about until june 2005!

― stet (stet), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 20:29 (seventeen years ago) link

http://www.thepcmuseum.net/hardware_images/hardware_pic_IBMPCJrKB(Chic).101-1.jpg

― Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 20:59 (seventeen years ago) link

http://www.homecomputer.de/images/machines/Oric_1_BW_Label_Large.jpg

― Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 21:01 (seventeen years ago) link

Stet, you flaming pablum, I correctly myself into saying that the GUI tools are shit.

― JW (ex machina), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 21:07 (seventeen years ago) link

So how the fuck are they supposed to use xcode without the gui? Xcode IS its gui. Or do you mean they should have written their own GUI for the GNU tools, when codewarrior was already working fine for them and there was no impending reason to change it?

― stet (stet), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 21:17 (seventeen years ago) link

Pablum's a great word tho

― stet (stet), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 21:17 (seventeen years ago) link

sorry, so aperture's like window's thumbnail view feature, or the old thumbsplus program? I'm amazing OSX hasn't integrated this into the finder somehow.

― kyle (akmonday), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 22:02 (seventeen years ago) link

STET, YOU ARE THE DUMBEST POSTER EVER

― JW (ex machina), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 22:03 (seventeen years ago) link

oooh noes. Why don't you put some pictures in the corner of teh windows with CSS again to really get your point over, dickcheese?

Do you really want Adobe to use vi and make? WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU MEAN "use xcode"? There IS NO "XCODE" BEYOND THE GUI you insufferably arrogant[1] arse?

[1] And this is coming from *me*.

― stet (stet), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 22:06 (seventeen years ago) link

I think he means that Xcode is shit for compiling and debugging large apps, which is true of pretty much *every* IDE GUI I've ever used. It becomes a nice text editor that kicks off your build process if you like. And on really large projects, you probably just check in the code and have your build machine do it via either timed compiles or triggered scripts.

― mike h. (mike h.), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 22:11 (seventeen years ago) link

Yep, I agree. So why does he think they should have switched to "xcode" last year and not just some gcc-centred build?

― stet (stet), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 22:33 (seventeen years ago) link

XCODE IS GCC; I AM USING "XCODE" AS A CONVENIENT SHORTHAND FOR APPLE'S VERSIONS OF GNU UTILS, ETC INSTEAD OF THE CODEWARRIOR SHIT, YOU OBTUSE TURD-CONSUMING NIT.

YOU ARE BEING A TURD.

The XCode GUI for subversion is one of the worst I have ever used. It is a fucking terrible application for doing any editing in anything other than a C-like language too.

― JW (ex machina), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 22:46 (seventeen years ago) link

XCODE IS GCC only if ADIUM IS GAIM. I HAD NO IDEA YOU WERE CALLING TWO DIFFERENT THINGS BY THE SAME NAME.

ALSO "XCODE" IS LONGER THAN "GCC".

Not to mention that you're still talking out your ass, as "APPLE'S VERSIONS OF GNU UTILS" are ALSO utter shit. STABS as a debug format compared to CW? No thanks.

― stet (stet), Tuesday, 16 May 2006 22:57 (seventeen years ago) link

In other things I got wrong, Aperture will actually run on the MacBook, it's just not supported due the graphics card.

― stet (stet), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 00:08 (seventeen years ago) link

Now that I'm finally back from work, I have to say:

-Looks lusty (except for maybe the bevel where you open it)
-Onboard graphics and shared vram suck and hopefully Apple will realize this by Feb '08, when my 12" PowerBook G4 is set to retire
-What's this about user-replacable hard drives?
-Shiny screen. Ew.
-Stays closed w/ magnet. Didn't the first iBooks do that? Nice idea.
-1280 x 800? Nobody makes desktop images that size!
-The Keyboard. At first I thought it was designed to be spillproof, but it's all just fancy looks.
-Same ports as the 12" Powerbook, guess a pc card port is too "pro"
-13 hours and "MacBook Blak" is still funny!

― naus (Robert T), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 01:45 (seventeen years ago) link

Much like the Intel iMacs, the MacBook sports one notable feature over its PowerPC based ancestor: it now supports extended desktop (as pointed out by Frasier Speirs). iBooks would only support monitor mirroring out of the box (though there are some sneaky ways to get around that).

Cool I guess? I never use this feature on my 12" Powerbook except for running the 2 screen powerpoint mode and possibly video art

― JW (ex machina), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 03:40 (seventeen years ago) link

yeah i've always assumed that would be useful but i've never gotten around to using it!

the keyboard on these things looks weird... there seems to be a lot of space between the keys!!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 04:28 (seventeen years ago) link

Jon, you disappoint me; real men code in blood, sweat and vi.

― Ed (dali), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 04:33 (seventeen years ago) link

Cool I guess?

It's pretty handy. When I'm running dual-screens I usually move my iTunes and iCal windows over to the small screen - stuff that I like having open and not-minimized.

― LOL Thomas (Chris Barrus), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 04:40 (seventeen years ago) link

Ed, I use Vi(m)! Where did I say I used XCode?

Chris, I did that for a while but I hated having the tiny, not aligned powerbook screen and the loss of deskspace.

― JW (ex machina), Wednesday, 17 May 2006 04:41 (seventeen years ago) link

I don't think "Lust" is the term for the Nike+iPodGlobal:
With the Nike+ footwear connected to iPod nano through the Nike+iPod Sport Kit, information on time, distance, calories burned and pace is stored on iPod and displayed on the screen; real-time audible feedback also is provided through headphones.
Here.

(Oh, and don't forget your "PowerSong" -- press the centre button for a jolt of musical adrenaline). Ick Ick ick.

― stet (stet), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 16:13 (seventeen years ago) link

so dumb

― s1ocki (slutsky), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 16:15 (seventeen years ago) link

AN IPOD THAT SYNCS WITH MY FOOT.

― s1ocki (slutsky), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 16:15 (seventeen years ago) link

Eh, not an awful idea, just sad to see them work with such fucking scumbags.

― JW (ex machina), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 16:18 (seventeen years ago) link

I love this thread

― Allyzay Rofflesbot (allyzay), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 16:37 (seventeen years ago) link

With the Nike+ footwear connected to iPod nano through the Nike+iPod Sport Kit, information on time, distance, calories burned and pace is stored on iPod and displayed on the screen; real-time audible feedback also is provided through headphones. As a result of this, it has dinosaurs.

― JW (ex machina), Tuesday, 23 May 2006 16:41 (seventeen years ago) link

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