If you actively dislike Creedence Clearwater Revival, then I can never respect anything you have to say about anything.

CCR is just as distinctive as any of those bands, this sounds like CCR

yeah idk Beefheart seems like the wrong point of comparison - he hated grooves!

MIrror man seems pretty groove orientated, TMR sounds a bit more angular, I thought there wasa soul influence creeping in on Decals that became pretty clearly overt on Clear Spot.
Safe as Milk and Strictly Personal both seem pretty groove orientated, particularly the latter.

I found that the early live sets I had by man from 1970 in Germany really reminded me of the MIrror Man type sound.

Need to get this

he hated grooves, he said so himself repeatedly!

he’s bothered by the fact that its practitioners stick to what he calls “the mama heartbeat” – the steady unvarying rhythmic pulse that he’s been working subtle variations on, snaking his way around, syncopating sinuously or avoiding altogether for 15 years.

“I think that beat is related to fascism, I really do. It’s so fixative, so hypnotic. And they make the stuff so synthesized – to where it’s dangerous to the heart, I mean, faster-than-the-heart disco – some of that disco is dangerous! It doesn’t mean it won’t sell! But then again, sugar sells, which I think is extremely dangerous!”

Looks like there was some discussion of Woodstock Choogle upthread eleven years ago.

I thought there wasa soul influence creeping in on Decals

Where?

B-b-but what about the Howlin’ Wolf influence?

There was a soul influence on "Safe As Milk" but I can't hear on "Decals".

he hated grooves, he said so himself repeatedly!

― Οὖτις

he did! also, he lied a lot, and he had a fucking great drummer who was more than a little responsible for his sound!

here's a 11 minute live version of "rollin' and tumblin'" from 1968. try and tell me there's no swamp blues choogle here!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS-iJtRFpZo

What I hear as a soul influence is on several tracks on the Decals lp. I need to listen to the lp again before pointing to exact moments that stand out to me but it's something I remember noticing every time I hear it.

Also the quote from van vliet talking about repetitive beats would appear to come from late 70s and reference disco. Would think that gave him a long time to rethink his history which he seemed to do constantly anyway. Disco beat was a lot stiffer than an r'n'b groove wasn't it?

You're right that he started doing that mama heartbeat routine ("I don't want my heart to attack me!") for interviewers in the late 70s but I seem to remember John French saying he'd been railing against 4/4 for years before that.

I should probably say that Decals is something of a continuation of the TMR sound but minus a guitarist but other influences are coming in. & I keep hearing something in the mix that sounds like it comes from soul. It's an element that's present rather than an overt 'this is a soul track' which seems semi overt at least on Clear Spot.

1:groove is relentless & formidable
2:could be 2 x as long & still great
3:no matter how loud you turn this up, it could still go 1 louder if poss:

― Mazzy Tsar (PBKR), Sunday, August 4, 2019 9:41 AM (five days ago) bookmarkflaglink

So you're saying they should have kept on chooglin'....

In which case I agree.

Thought exercise: what if CCR never stopped chooglin’

but chooglin by nature is eternal

This whole time I was thinking about it like chooglin’ is a CCR activity, like Fogerty was asking the others to keep on going.

but really, maybe this was just a plea for others to keep on chooglin’...maybe he knew CCR wouldn’t be able to keep on doing it for much longer, so he was trying to recruit new participants?

I prefer this latter explanation

then wouldn't he have said, "can anybody out there choogle?". The performance I thought was clearly revelling in the eternal choog. The band, the audience, everyone. The Woodstock show didn't need to be released because it has always been with us.

Some say this was the “song for everyone” that he references on green river

All that 1969 output...many are saying he knew the end of CCR was nigh, he knew he had to start a movement (a Revival?) to ensure the continuity of the chooglin’

This is all so fucked up

we're here. it happened.

omg

if you need to collect yourself, there's a bathroom on the right

I’m on my way to work. I have to work all day, like this

I’ll just calmly explain the situation to my boss, he’ll definitely understand

he knows as well, of the bathroom

Next time you have to go to the bathroom, just tell your boss you have to go choogle. they'll get it.

Where's Karl? Oh, he had to go choogle, he'll be back in a few.

Does anybody remember chooglin?

like that Aerosmith album, "Chooglin on Bobo"?

I am finally listening to some of the Woodstock performance now

CCR RULES

It's up on Spotify if you haven't got a physical copy yet.
I just bought a copy from ebay yesterday so hopefully have it next week.

Just a chooglin on down to New Orleans

this is fierce

yeah but that bass solo I dunno

I love the Royal Albert Hall 1970 clips:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAVhKjsImeI

but chooglin by nature is eternal

― maffew12, Friday, August 9, 2019 9:32 AM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

Words to live by

yeah but that bass solo I dunno

Are there early CCR live sets from 67 or 68. I don't think I've come across much before '69 so am wondering. Like if there is much more along the lines of the first lp, though I think what I've heard of this Woodstock set is more in that direction.

What biographies of them are worth reading.

i just cannot imagine how anyone was ready for this in 1969. there was some heavy music, but nothing this relentless?? you've come out to a summer music festival, the archies are in the charts, you've heard some of jimi's heavy sound, you like some of those squawk blues vocals your sister's been playing you, you're curious and..... fuuuuuuck. maybe i'm making too much of this but i feel like it would be like coming into contact with an advanced alien intelligence.

"bootleg" sounds tremendous here

Well MC5, the Stooges and Blue Cheer were around. velvet underground with John cale had been pretty heavyish.
So had the Who, Yardbirds and a few others. Good to hear taht includes both eth Electrci Prunes and HP Lovecraft from their live sets.
Detroit area rock sound seemed to be based on Kicking out The Jams or live delivery , probably not true of everywhere though.
I'm not sure to what extent anybody from anywhere around the country would have got to see those bands mentioned live though.
Maybe if you have the drive to get up to upstate New York for this you would have heard things like that too.

I think i thought the live video footage that circulated a few years back was quite noisy etc

As in probably was thinking protopunk, sounds like it should be a detroit band. Bit different to the later sound etc.

So, seeing that the CCR Woodstock video footage must have been out before April 2008. Found a comment I made about having it from then, but not sure how long before taht I had it.

Well MC5, the Stooges and Blue Cheer were around. velvet underground with John cale had been pretty heavyish.

These bands were all tiny local cult phenomena. None of them had hit records and none of them played to more than a couple of hundred people outside their hometowns (and the VU not even that). 50 years of rockcrit hagiography has blinded people to the fact that these groups had effectively zero broad cultural penetration. One of the main reasons Iggy's televised performance was so shocking to people was that nobody had any idea who the fuck this nobody band was. Creedence, on the other hand, were a Top Forty band with big hit singles that everybody knew. So going to see them live one could reasonably expect an almost Monkees-ish evening of good-time party tunes, only to wind up getting bulldozed by the boogie.

XP The footage had been up on YouTube. Don't have the set at hand to check, but at least three clips were included on the 40th anniversary DVD/Blu-ray of the film.

Blue Cheer did have a hit! Also, before CCR had even released their debut album, "Vincebus Eruptum" got to 11 in the album charts. I would say the Who, Hendrix and Cream had all been playing some pretty heavy music - live at least.

Heavier music was infiltrating pop/rock by then for sure. The white album alone had several examples (eg helter skelter)

XP Fresh Cream is crazy heavy for '66.

I thought the first couple of CCR records were hard rock with some psychedelic touches, a bit different to the more Americana (or whatever you wanted to call it at the time) orientated later stuff.
Also think that not everybody would be making the trek up to upper New York even if quite a few did. But it took actual music fans to want to, it's not really something you could do without some degree of effort. Though not everybody is going to be familiar with everybody on a bill of course would think you would have some idea of current music to go. & it was about ROCK or FOLK or whatever not some mainstream saccharine chart pop or teenybop.
& that had me wondering if it took until punk or at least the time after Nuggets before the Monkees got rehabilitated into a band that non teenyboppers would listen to in a non-ironic way.

zep 1 had been out for six months