PMs change and lol we're all gonna die (but brexit will never end)

the wine cellar is the rest of the building, i break the maths down as follows to some extent:

tanjong pagar centre = 64 floors =
3 storeys for the penthouse
one for the groundfloor lobby
the rest of the building = one floor per ten bottles (presumably one per room that's how i do it)

damn that's some real billionaire mindset shit

tapping_temple_wisely.gif except it's my gold top hat i'm tapping

if we're advocating for an unsympathetic approach to dealing with lexit labour members in clps and the unions on the basis of faith in cold electoral maths then there's no way that we can then insist the extremely loyal and reliable momentum contingent need to be appeased. in any case there's plenty of common ground to focus on and all this concern trolling is counterproductive

It's only concern trolling if the primary aim is to undermine while pretending to help. Tom Watson is concern trolling, Ash Sarkar clearly isn't.

Ultimately debate and dissent between groups whose primary aims are ultimately aligned (ie not including the Labour right) should be healthy and pretending otherwise does no one any favours. In the end what matters is that Labour win the election or at least emerge as the largest party and if they do then whatever strategy is taken will be vindicated.

The wider impact is negligible because the only people who notice or care what Ash Sarkar thinks already have a position on the issue that's unlikely to be changed either way.

afaict momentum ppl are largely calmly posting as they always do, even if they occasionally get suckered into the hysterical noise of the theatre. sarkar might know some ppl are v frustrated but this looks miles away from becoming a significant factor in labours electoral strategy and the idea that corbyn is at risk of losing his young remainer base has been pushed for a while be foot stomping remainers and hacks like behr who might say they would like labour to be electable but actually might vote lib dem or green if they feel like the messaging has not been to their liking. the underlying landscape remains unchanged, including the fact that as ever some ppl need to get a grip

that's barely english but you'll manage

otm

> gold top hat

gold-top hat

The issue isn't whether or not votes from Momentum types are at risk, with the exception of a small amount maybe flaking off the Greens they clearly aren't. I don't think Lexit types in unions and CLPs are either really. Other groups, maybe.

Ultimately if Labour are successful then it will be written off as having held their nerve, if they aren't it will look like complacency.

Obviously the picture will change quickly once the parties are in campaign mode but I think people can be forgiven for being fearful and nervous in the midst of all this agonising paralysis.

get suckered into the hysterical noise of the theatre

Did you mean: any other word

Sarkar isn't a random person. She has a following and a responsibility to represent what is going on in the Corbyn base with accuracy. xp

the ppl who will pass such a verdict on labour don't matter. the underlying landscape that determines what the choices are has been clear for a long time and will remain so at least until the next GE. it's odd to see the fretting bc having felt sick with and desperate abt domestic politics my entire life this seems like the most straightforward and easy to navigate period I have ever known. I can only say Seriously, what is the point of even looking at this stuff?, chin up, & join the party!

At the same time it looks like Jo Swinson might turn out to be an asset to the Labour Party if she keeps banging on about coalitions, which Cable was at least self-aware enough to shut up about.

this seems like the most straightforward and easy to navigate period I have ever known

There are plenty of minority groups within the country who don't really have the luxury of being chill about the current situation, though.

Labour policy as it stands is effectively a referendum between Soft Brexit and Remain, that's about as good an outcome as can realistically be expected, whether Rafael Behr or whoever is throwing a tantrum isn't really my concern.

There are plenty of minority groups within the country who don't really have the luxury of being chill about the current situation, though.

I'm just talking abt political/electoral strategy. Despite how bad things are & how high the stakes are theres a clearer and stronger left wing project than there has been in my lifetime

Ash and Owen are quite a team huh?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/26/election-labour-johnson-tory-vote-jeremy-corbyn

"That isn’t to pretend Labour is in a good place now – it isn’t. The Brexit culture war has sapped the party’s sense of insurgency and caused rampant disillusionment among its 2017 electoral coalition. At an anti-Boris Johnson protest organised by radical grassroots movements on Wednesday, I encountered profound disenchantment with Labour, a sense that the party isn’t present, and a repeated demand that they “step up”. This should be core “Oh, Jeremy Corbyn” territory: it’s worrying for the party’s prospects that at present, it is not."

They were both there on that tough Wednesday night. He is still pushing that please-back-another-vote line, but if you look at the piece he links to its a piece on polling data by Peter Kellner:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/27/labour-vote-referendum-jeremy-corbyn

I just skimmed it but I have no confidence in Yougov and I think Owen should actually go out of London and look at Labour Leave areas and be actually useful (and no this is not a call to become a John Harris-type, how about talking to Momentum activists in those areas instead?) It isn't Tom Watson-type wrecking but there are shades of concern trolling and ends up as attempts to further demoralise. Hopefully not many people are giving a shit what Owen thinks about anything.

data from YouGov might as well be coming straight from CCHQ. And I don't have a jizzfest every time Labour go ahead in the polls. But I do follow the poll of polls tracker enough to know bullshit when I see it.

xp See, I wasn't sure what your previous post meant - to clarify, it's that she has a responsibility to represent what is going on in the Corbyn base with accuracy, and that you have determined that she's not?

the chattering commentariat got to chatter I guess, but lazy, kneejerk analysis is becoming OJ's main stock-in-trade at times.

Isn't he constantly touring around the country? As I've mentioned before he's a weathervane but the idea that he hasn't spoken to Momentum activists across the country doesn't strike me as accurate.

Tactical voting at its finest pic.twitter.com/gYJDmdcNSU

— RopesToInfinity (@RopesToInfinity) July 26, 2019

The amount of shite OJ gets itt, while mainstream commentators skate by pumping this poison out, never ceases to amaze me.

There is no more racially divisive force in UK politics than Corbynism. It is more dangerous now than the NF or the BNP or the EDL.

— (((Dan Hodges))) (@DPJHodges) July 26, 2019

I see @DPJHodges is trending because of this tweet. Why? Because the anti-Semitic defenders of Jeremy Corbyn are all piling on. The truth is that the NF, BNP & EDL never came within a million miles of power, while Corbyn could be our next Prime Minister. That’s why it matters. https://t.co/2zd1m9MjDP

— Julia Hartley-Brewer (@JuliaHB1) July 26, 2019

Like, fuck’s sake, why is this clown still employed? He’s clearly useful to someone.

The Corbynites want Asian people to be too afraid to enter the cabinet room. What's your view on that.

— (((Dan Hodges))) (@DPJHodges) July 26, 2019

Every so often I remember that Dan Hodges designed a Falklands War-themed board game for one player that takes four hours to play and I just feel such overwhelming happiness.

the usefulness of hodges is to signal to daily mail readers that the "former left" are now staunchly with the right: it's affirmation of a well established constituency prejudice (as the JHB response demonstrates)

a red rag always useful too

re AS and OJ: the sense of drift is i think as much as anything bcz (stubbornly! and perhaps correctly!)* lab comms still has has a low opjnion of the value and efficacy of first response (and is somewhat ideologically leery of it). which means over the long haul that labour's semi-freelance mainstream first responders, feeling they've been left to drift (they have!) and with their time not filled by the leadership handing on messages to process and deliver, begin to interpret their own specific unmooredness as a general unmooredness

*i still think there is a price to be paid for this now very firmly hewn-to line, that time and energy spent winning the day is time wasted, and this is part of that price. they are sensing drift bcz they are drifting, and they are drifting bcz they are not being steered…

"Isn't he constantly touring around the country?"

From my reading of Ogmor's posts Momentum is onwards, I don't get the feeling of conflict. So if OJ is travelling around the country why am I not seeing more of a mixed picture? Also it does seem to be a focus on young activists and the base isn't just that one demographic? xps

xp See, I wasn't sure what your previous post meant - to clarify, it's that she has a responsibility to represent what is going on in the Corbyn base with accuracy, and that you have determined that she's not?

― Andrew Farrell, Friday, 26 July 2019 bookmarkflaglink

She has written before this on the need to back another vote. Then she goes out to the protest, sees a lack of enthusiasm and goes from there. Then Owen writes this a few hours later. Has she talked to activists in other regions? Labour leave isn't in London.

Is there much of a Labour Leave/Momentum crossover? Is there a reason why morale would be high among Labour Leave given the current Brexit position? Is morale within the Labour left higher in the North of England right now? Serious questions.

Looking at this they should be more concerned about Scotland right now: http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/labour

And looking at this the Midlands is the real concern for them, defensively: http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/conservative

How popular is a Boris government likely to be in Midlands marginals, particularly those with big Asian populations?

At least we are moving away from London Wednesday night now.

@TonyParsonsUK
5h5 hours ago
In the Seventies, we made our own fun. One summer, we found a piece of rope. It was bloody great.

Didn't embed because the tweet includes an old photo of him in his pants you're welcome

(gyac this is how you do it)

thought this was an interesting thread

1/ I've done this before but on a day like today it's worth remembering the striking difference in the way the EU and UK see the backstop. From the Brussels furnace, based on convos with officials/diplomats, the EU perspective (not advocating either way just reporting as ever).

— Nick Gutteridge (@nick_gutteridge) July 25, 2019

Have the chants started in Parliament yet to send Boris Johnson back to the "crime infested shithole" he came from? (i.e., Manhattan's Upper East Side)

— Jeffrey St. Clair (@JSCCounterPunch) July 26, 2019

poll

ITV News exclusive: @Jacob_Rees_Mogg issues new style guide to his staff demanding male MPs are called Esq, the use of imperial measurements and which words are banned (but not 'not fit for purpose'), reports @PaulBrandITV https://t.co/0LNgWW9Bxj pic.twitter.com/re6fQmqyz2

— ITV News (@itvnews) July 26, 2019

two spaces after a full-stop. didn't think this cunt could get any worse

all top-hats must be at least 40% saturated with mercury compounds

Fascinating stress-test going on about what parts of Cameron’s approach were and weren’t necessary here. https://t.co/dEURsBorom

— Stephen Bush (@stephenkb) July 26, 2019

"no comma after and"

who was doing this anyway?

that's the oxford comma. i assume he's reluctant to call it by its name because he thinks it reflects poorly on oxford.

my impression is that although momentum is attractive to lexiters, bennites, ppl w/ grudges against their CLPs, and various older ppl that like to bloviate in meetings while calling ppl comrade, they are not generally at the centre of things and momentum have done a good job at organising locally and broadening their base. I have been surprised by how many of those old left ppl are generally abt tho, I think they're often underestimated.

I think a lot of labour leavers are not that hardcore, mb even a majority are soft lexiters who don't like the EU or remainer discourse but don't as an overwhelming priority, even if they might think it's an obviously opportune moment to leave & be annoyed on democratic grounds etc.

but yes it's very difficult for labour when the constituencies that will decide the election include a lot of scottish ones and some of the most strongly leave english ones

xp. oxford comma is before and!

is it like “and, as if that weren’t bad enough,”

double space after full stops? mogg is a savage

xp. aah. that sounds right

I’ll wait for the gold top hats among us to confirm

I was hoping we weren't going to give this tedious piece of Rees-Mogg personal brand building the oxygen it doesn't deserve.