no boys allowed in the room!!!!

oh the friend in this story is a genderqueer POC

I’m at the point where I wear bike shorts under skirts and dresses all the time if I’m not wearing tights — apparently kids do it and afaict I’m doing it too. Even though it means wearing another garment, I feel so much more free! Having my undies out feels definitively not-good unless I’m at home chilling.

I am unable to locate a specific article but it was basically about how men are able (willing) to delegate/manage in the workplace but completely suffer from mind paralysis when it comes to their household which is why women have that work fall on them.

I almost bought some of those thigh chafing bands that kind of look like garters but then thought they would be annoying if they didn't stay up. xpost

xp - in terms of my work experience, the best/most frequent delegators tend to be women.

my experience has been that men tell subordinates what to do, and women ask for help

But I definitely wouldn't get mad at women who are typically fixers for everyone else, getting to feel however they feel when experiencing the benefits of not accepting that role. I don't think that's the same as saying, "It's good to be served by others without being accountable to them."

― There's more Italy than necessary. (in orbit), Thursday, 25 July 2019 16:39 (yesterday) link

OK, sure, I get what you're saying here. Like, "I refuse to be placed in the mummy/nanny/caretaker role by default" is a really powerful assertion.

Honestly, it's not about whether man and/or women or anyone else can or cannot delegate or manage, it comes down to whether one views domestic labour as work, or something that just magically happens. In an office, it's obvious what is Work, and therefore it can be viewed as a thing to be managed or distributed. But, because things like bathrooms being cleaned and bins being emptied happen after hours by invisible hands that none of the managers are in charge of managing... (think about how often cleaning services get completely outsourced from organisations - into the realm of Not Work.)

This was going round my social media feeds a few days, about the myth of the Great Male Genius and how the space for him to work is created by the invisible work of others (mostly women).

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/21/woman-greatest-enemy-lack-of-time-themselves

This is an endless debate, that becomes more and more salient with the political crises of our time. "We" have always, since the dawn of thinking, treated the most pressing political issue as "Who governs?" It isn't. The most pressing political issue has become "Who cleans up?" which is salient in everything from the micro of who takes on household domestic labour, to the global, from Flint's water supply to Global Warming:

https://itsherfactory.substack.com/p/who-cleans-up-vs-who-governs-pt-1

(If someone thinks that 'who cleans up?' is an unimportant question because it's always 'someone else' then frankly that person is not fit to govern.)

(think about how often cleaning services get completely outsourced from organisations - into the realm of Not Work.

oh definitely! The times when I worked in a place that had a cleaning service (as opposed to small biz or non-profit where there was no budget for cleaning, and we had to do it ourselves), it was awkward for me. Like, I definitely have a certain ... embarrassment ... about being in a position where I am being served. On a related "girl things" note, this is why I feel icky about the idea of getting manicures or pedicures or having someone else cut my hair. I am fine at bars and restaurants for the most part, though the places where the servers come around too frequently to ask if I/we want something, sometimes that feels awkward to me, because it feels "too subservient"? Basically, I feel like I focus a lot in my interactions with people/social situations on power imbalances, and I tend not to be comfortable with them in that setting.

i am totally the same -- i have never enjoyed -- have even been repulsed by-- the idea, much less the act, of being "pampered" or "taken care of" and i always chalked it up to being a self-reliant only child rather than being a girl but i honestly don't know the real source of many of my eccentricities because there are...so many :-/

i had a real "wow i AM a weird woman in a bar" moment the other day when i was trying to socialize after a show. i'm teetotaling thanks to a recent illness and i had attributed my weird feelings to that at the time. a few days of weird feelings later and i finally realized -- get ready for it -- it's not me, it's not my forced abstinence from alcoholic beverages, it's my period. i wonder what percentage of my total life depressive feelings are attributable to my period. i don't wanna know tbh.

also fwiw having said that ^^ i would like to publicly state that i have an inclusive view of this thread and womanhood in general. one need not have a uterus (crampy or otherwise) to pass through these doors; i often wish i didn't have one myself :)

sorry to hear about the endometriosis, homo II -- that sounds horrifying tbh and i am glad you are not in pain

The way I look at those things - getting manicures, house cleaners, haircuts- is that I’m
A) contributing to the economy
B) paying someone to do something that I’m not good at/don’t have time for/etc, the same way someone pays me to dye clothes, because most people don’t know how/don’t have time to dye their own clothes, even though technically everyone could dye their own clothes

also fwiw having said that ^^ i would like to publicly state that i have an inclusive view of this thread and womanhood in general. one need not have a uterus (crampy or otherwise) to pass through these doors; i often wish i didn't have one myself :)

― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera)

speaking as an inclusively defined woman, i can't see how it would possibly be a problem or delegitimizing for a woman to talk about her period. womanhood is diverse and covers a whole range of experiences; there are hundreds of millions of women who don't menstruate.

the only way it's a sore spot for me is knowing that menstruation has been used by men to delegitimize women since pretty much literally the beginning of history. i'm married to someone with a uterus and menstruation is obviously bullshit, but the misogynist anti-menstruation narrative is so baked into our culture that i daren't mention it.

Basically, I feel like I focus a lot in my interactions with people/social situations on power imbalances, and I tend not to be comfortable with them in that setting.

Multiply this by about 1000 and you have Britain and the reason we have such inconsistent service (and customers) in our restaurants etc
When I moved to the US I instantly realised what a good server was and why it was important.

yeah i am happy accepting services like haircuts bc i need them (though the hair washing is always embarrassing for me, prob bc someone is touching me) and am absolutely not repulsed by the services themselves (i enjoy beautification rituals in general)
it's a weird thing i think i absorbed from my parents but idk why or how or to what purpose

I'm so fucking done with periods. (Menopause currently giving me one every 3 weeks at the moment.) I've heard that there is some (off-piste, I forget what it's called) treatment for the menopause which basically involves low dosage T gel, and I'm wondering if I can just figure out the magic words to get the doctors to give me that, both to sort out the menopause shit, and also to avoid having to go through the whole UK gender clinic hell or am I just being a sucker for medicalisation when everyone tells me that T is magical 'make your life better' juice because there is no such thing?

WRT hairdressers and grooming, my main question is, is this person being adequately remunerated for what they are doing? It's one of the few areas where I can be in control of making sure they get properly paid, through tipping or whatever?

Currently having hair woe because I had finally found a stylist who 'got it' (her brother is gay - does drag etc - so she was quite familiar with queer signifiers) and was willing to give me exactly what I asked for. She has now left that salon. I booked an appointment with a different hairdresser, and I had forgotten - it was back to being a *fight* for me to actually get my hair as short as I wanted, have as brutal a clip as I wanted and she kept trying to feminise the haircut (and even asking her to go back and do the shaving a second time to make it right, she still managed to not do what I asked). ARGH. I have found out where the other stylist went, but it's a totally different neighbourhood... if I'm going to go that far to get a haircut, I might as well go into town. People keep telling me to go to Open Barbers in Shoreditch, as they specifically advertise that they *want* to work with queer, trans and gender non-conforming people. Maybe I should try that?

I may be unattractive in many other ways, but for the past 2 solid years, I have had Good Hair, which has made such a difference to how I feel about my gender and everything else. I just can't face going back to having to fight to get what I want on my head any more. What do I do?

Go to Open Barbers, they might be entirely new to you but at least they’ll get where you’re coming from & be able to sort you out properly.

i would like to publicly state that i have an inclusive view of this thread and womanhood in general. one need not have a uterus (crampy or otherwise) to pass through these doors

agreed! also, some menstrual problems are related to hormones -- and a trans friend pointed out on fb -- some trans/non-binary people actually have/are taking these hormones, so -- anyway, welcome rushomancy to this long-running thread

Oh aside from physical pain of cramps and dramatic inconvenience of blood flow, my real period probs are all hormonal. Intense and hormonal.

Technically, this is the "no boys" thread? I don't know that it's ever been about ~womanhood~, big tent or little tent. Just a place free of cis masculinity.

Many, many trans people *have* uteri, and how we deal with them is all over the place. I'm tired of pretending like 'never talk about uteri or having them' is some trans-dictate. It's funny how no one ever goes on the Gays thread and tells them that it's transphobic to talk about dicks all the time. But hey. It's almost as if ~trans discourse~ can be warped to disparage cis women for failure to attain impossible, contradictory perfection just as easily as ~feminist discourse~ can.

Also, I had forgotten, how having hair styled like this exposes one to all kinds of delightful homophobia on the Tube. I thought we left that shit in 1987, but it turns out not. I'm so tired. Or maybe that's just blood loss or hormones from PMT.

As if the world is trolling me, this popped up in the newspaper this morning:

https://www.theguardian.com/global/2019/jul/28/looking-for-mr-t-the-politicisation-of-testosterone-and-toxic-masuclinity

It just got me thinking about how differently hormones are politicised.

I think that most people on this thread could read that article, and understand that the discourse discussed in the piece (the whole "men are being feminised by losing T and this is a crisis because ~being like women~ is the Worst Thing Ever" philosophy)is deeply, intrinsically misogynist. Right? But I rarely see this kind of testosterone/male-genitals/manhood/masculinity discourse problematised for how transphobic it is. Coz it really is.

Yes, I see this internal policing kick in, when AFAB people talk about hormones and periods, and how that sometimes leads us to have feelings about our bodies, our selves / genders, or even 'womanhood' in general (whether feeling connected to femaleness or disconnected through dysphoria), that we immediately kick in and make some kind of trans-inclusive statement.

Do you ever see (cis) men doing this, when they engage in testosterone-slash-manhood-discourse?

I don't know which way round I feel about this. Like, obviously, it's GOOD to be trans inclusive, and it's actually good to check in with those around us and make sure trans and non-binary people don't feel excluded by body talk. But it starts to feel like extra labour expected of the AFABs that is never expected of the AMABs, when they start discoursing about the old testosterone.

Sigh. I have plenty of other interests, but this is the only one I ever seem to talk about on ILX any more. That kinda sucks.

Anyway, I'll stop killing the thread now. Bye!

I mean, it would be great if that extra step of making others welcome and un-gendering the conversation were done by all people, specifically AMAB and AFAB, but as far as ilx convos go, I'd be shocked to see that level of awareness in those spaces--so I guess you could say it's not "expected" of them but that's more of a condemnation than anything. Also I was off ilx over the weekend so I don't know where that thread has gone but I'll check it out.

I've been thinking a lot about service industry dynamics and the purchasing of care lately (particularly while getting my nails done ftr lol). First of all, I like being touched (obv with consent) so that part doesn't squick me out/is pleasurable instead of distressing, so I don't experience that type of discomfort. But I used to be more embarrassed by the perceived status & power imbalance, and unfortunately it manifested as me being so uncomfortable that I rushed and mumbled and didn't look people in the eye and connect w them as people because I was so in my own feelings.

The thing is, I'm not sure that particular spasm of discomfort looks any different to the professional service provider than active disdain? Anyway, idk when exactly but my shame and discomfort eased and went away somewhere in there, and without that paralysis it was obvious that stylists and nail techs and wait-staff and etc are SKILLED PROFESSIONALS, and their work has value! And it's so much nicer (for me) to be talking and joking with someone and knowing them as a person and their life and their kids or whatever, and also praising their work AND ALSO accepting the gift of caring and comfort that they're trained to give, which has value because comfort and good-feeling are important for our health and connectedness!

Also I realized that *I* was creating the idea that their work was shameful or low-status because it involved some kind of service or taking care of physical bodies, and that was on me. There's a lot to unpack there about caring and bodies and women and low-status groups and cultural frameworks that should be inspected a lot more closely but I'm gonna leave it for now.

Complicating all of this, though, is that there may often be a language barrier between the customer and the professional, which really discourages communication and community, and can really add to the embarrassment etc of trying to navigate an already fraught experience of service.

I was thinking about this while getting a pedicure next to a nail tech who was getting her OWN pedicure from one of her colleagues and really enjoying it, and all of us joking around, and then later while working on my fingernails, talking w my manicurist about our families and death and loss and relationships and men and lots of personal stuff. Admittedly this kind of thing was/is harder when I went to salons where the staff were less English-fluent but I've still been in plenty of, for instance, Chinese-speaking salon environments where other customers would greet the staff by name, ask about their kids, and just be natural.

Maybe as a midwesterner those kinds of really flowing and public exchanges are just not my natural habitat lol. But I'm learning.

Hmmm. My take on this is that there are still a large number of women who do define womanhood in primarily biological terms (i.e. trans-exclusive), enough that it perhaps feels necessary to make the inclusive disclaimers? (Personally I do assume inclusivity unless I see overtly exclusive behaviour.)

Much as I hate to be a stereotype I am definitely a trans/NB person who seems to only ever talk about trans/NB shit. I guess I can accept that about myself.

I got the best cake recipe once when I was having a pedicure. I've only ever had two pedicures because I'm a massive baby who gets really ticklish and starts squirming and laughing when people touch my feet.

Ugh that T article. "“Society is trying to pigeonhole men almost into behaving like women.”". What does that even mean? Actually I don't care.

Yeah I only paid the glancing attention to that mess.

My take on this is that there are still a large number of women who do define womanhood in primarily biological terms (i.e. trans-exclusive), enough that it perhaps feels necessary to make the inclusive disclaimers?

My point being, given the astonishingly large amount of men who define *manhood* (let alone womanhood) in primarily biological terms, why are the AMABs not expected to ever make the same disclaimers?

Never mind, I know why.

yeah, the article hedges its bets in a v annoying way. It's a 99% made up fascist put-down! But maybe they have a point after all? Who could possibly say! Let me interview an actual associate professor without giving her title, and then some fitness bro who says "pffft ivory tower bitches, amirite? SCIENCE may think you're perfectly normal but maybe you're a WEENIE, PS give me money"

also I find haircuts uncomfortable but mainly because I feel like an alien who doesn't know how to make smalltalk or dress/do makeup/do my hair and whom all the fashionable well-turned-out assistants probably think is totally gross to have to touch. BUT now I admit this is a clumsy backward reading of the power dynamic and I owe it to them to be less diffident and weird in the seat and I feel bad for not thinking it through sooner. Thank you!

(I do try to tip OK anyway! well idk I always tip but maybe not v generously, but I go to unfancy suburban places who seem effusively pleased/surprised to get any tip - but maybe that's another power dynamic ritual and I should tip better also)

Sigh. I have plenty of other interests, but this is the only one I ever seem to talk about on ILX any more. That kinda sucks.

― Einstürzende NEU!bauten (Branwell with an N), Monday, July 29, 2019 5:24 AM (six hours ago)

is it just that the way you want to talk about the other interests / the things you want to say -- it just isn't worth it, or doesn't feel possible?

Much as I hate to be a stereotype I am definitely a trans/NB person who seems to only ever talk about trans/NB shit. I guess I can accept that about myself.

― Un Poco Loco Moco (rushomancy), Monday, July 29, 2019 7:17 AM (four hours ago)

you also talk about movies though, yeah?

(also sorry for sidestepping the gender discussion which is interesting but I felt a little unqualified to wade into)

Hi Branwell! Welcome back and please do talk about other things!

Hi rushomancy too and likewise, I enjoy your music lists fwiw although I am p. uncultured and have usually only heard of 10% of the things on them

In terms of salons I believe the rule is that if someone is in business for themselves and they are pocketing the whole cost of your cut then you don't have to tip. But most stylists "rent" a chair from an owner or business, and in that case the tip is meant to be compensation for them over and above what percentage or flat fee they pay or are paid by their employer.

Although now that I say that, after I followed her through 3 other salons, my longtime stylist now co-owns the salon where she works along with a few other ppl and I still tip her so...shrug emoji.

OH LOOK IT'S AN ILX THREAD ABOUT TIPPING soz

ha the girl I had a crush on in High School runs a hair salon in Brooklyn.

you also talk about movies though, yeah?

― sarahell

i don't think so? i haven't really seen a lot of movies lately. i do talk about music sometimes but i seriously have barely been listening to anything in the last two months - just haven't had the time!

maybe it's just, uh, spotlight effect. i hate feeling like the center of attention :(

i was just writing a message to a friend and the phrase "keep it simple and set yourself free" popped into my head. it was immediately followed by "from the extras that you really don't need"
just like that my thoughts turned into a tampon commercial!

lol

can we talk about "extra" ... as it is tends to be applied to non cis-men ... in terms of behavior, etc? As in "she/you are so extra" relatedly "too much" ... I feel a bit dorky for saying this but, (not too much really) a lot of my "pop culture" awareness comes through astrology memes. ... So there's a lot of "extra" around now because it's Leo season. ...

I dunno; it's more like fucken politics infects everything. It's not even possible to have a cute little conversation about movies or music without this stuff coming up in some way or another. And it's the old Melissa McEwan thing of... keep it to yourself and stuff it down inside you so that you get endlessly more angry/depressed or... BRING IT UP AND RUIN THE WHOLE AFTERNOON!!!! It's an impossible choice.

Been watching a lot of movies about Berlin Gay Culture, from classics like Taxi Zum Klo to more modern takes like Mein Wunderbares West Berlin and Desire Will Set You Free, because Yay! Gay! and Yay! Germans! Except, then, watching a film like Mein Wunderbares West Berlin, honestly, it has more men named Wolfgang in it, than it has AFAB voices. You have to ignore that, to enjoy the film. (Desire Will Set You Free, OTOH, was a cheesy, cheesy film, but genuinely made an effort to have a wonderfully full range of genders.) I can no longer discuss films without noticing the gender imbalances in them.

I got Gentleman Jack on DVD, like wow, how can this not be great? Period lesbians in period costumes, woooo! #RelevantToMyInterests or what? But... the gender stuff was handled in a really interesting way, yes. It was really gratifying to see a queer, gender non-conforming AFAB handled in a sensitive and multi-dimensional light. But... OF COURSE because this is a British Costume Drama, they have to shove the Downton Abbey style Tory Agenda Bullshit right down your craw. Landlords and Mine Owners are GOOD! The only people who support Chartism or redistribution of property are bad, stinking, wifebeating alcoholics. I can no longer watch television without noticing the tacit political agendas in them.

I joined another music forum, for a German Experimental Group I am particularly fond of. I love this band more than is reasonable or maybe even healthy. But the overwhelming culture of Music Messageboard Dudes and the endless performance of cis-boy fandom of list-making and thing-collecting was just so oppressive and ... the leader of this group is famously bisexual and quite queer and playfully genderfuck (his partner flat out told me "he hates cis masculinity even more than YOU do!") ... and so those are the interpretive readings that I bring to his work, and yet the blank hostility from the threatened wall of $50 Box Set Men Proper Fans was ... well, it was really off-putting and unfun.

It's like... I dunno. I try to enjoy the things I enjoy with the awareness that ~everything is problematic~ and there is no Perfect. And yet this shit keeps coming up and slapping you in the face because it's impossible to live outside this system.

The good news is, though, that this past year I've started a Queer Theory reading group, where myself and a few people who do enjoy interrogating this stuff on a deeper basis CAN dig into it and go through it. That makes me feel a lot less crazy. And I have a really supportive work environment. (This is going to sound really ridiculous, but the Sys Admin has had the comic Dilbert displaying on the front page of the IT team's intranet. Yesterday, the comic was so openly transphobic that I brought it up with my boss, and my boss actually made the sys admin take it down saying it was not the culture that our organisation wanted to promote - which felt like something good.)

But then, every time I come back on ILX, I just feel this constant... *anxiety* that I'm going to be ripped to shreds if I venture outside this thread. (And often even on this thread, TBH. Like, anxiety does not discern.) It's just easier not to engage at all.

Sometimes I just wanna be really shallow and be like clothes! haircuts! memes! Y'know?

I don't know if it's been brought up on this thread, but I really would recommend everyone on this thread read Down Girl: The Logic of Misogyny by Kate Manne.

It's one of the most smart and clear-sighted analyses I've ever read, about what misogyny is, and what it isn't, and how it functions on so many different levels. And answers the question: what it's for.

It's such an amazing book, and I've seen it get so little traction anywhere. I mean, yeah, it's written in a slightly dry academic tone rather than a pop culture tone - but I suspect that's so it would be taken seriously, as the rigorous work it is, and not dismissed as light ~pop feminism~. I just think it's a really important book and I wish more people would read it.

It's 35 minutes later, and I've only just realised that that question about films wasn't even directed at me.

Because: autism. Duh.

But I wish I could assuage the anxiety that other people won't recognise, "Branwell gets this shit wrong, because autism" and not have this wave of anxiety about how people are going to assume it's because I'm an asshole and inconsiderate and self-obsessed.

But... OF COURSE because this is a British Costume Drama, they have to shove the Downton Abbey style Tory Agenda Bullshit right down your craw. Landlords and Mine Owners are GOOD! The only people who support Chartism or redistribution of property are bad, stinking, wifebeating alcoholics. I can no longer watch television without noticing the tacit political agendas in them.

I adore the show Madame Secretary but it is relentlessly "centrist"-pandering and mindlessly pro-military service. It can still make me cry in 10 seconds flat though.

It's 35 minutes later, and I've only just realised that that question about films wasn't even directed at me.

sincerely sorry! it was meant for rushomancy, and on top of that, I had them confused with someone else entirely ... but the anxiety at feeling like a failure at communicating and understanding is "real" ... and I feel like, in general, it's worse for AFAB people because of social conditioning.

Sometimes I just wanna be really shallow and be like clothes! haircuts! memes! Y'know?

Absolutely! I think this is why I have gotten super into astrology memes. There was something I read recently about astrology memes and queer culture and anti-hierarchical structure (maybe) that was gratifying.

this might have been it ...
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/06/astrology-memes-unite-micro-targeting-and-celestial-mythos.html

I adore the show Madame Secretary but it is relentlessly "centrist"-pandering and mindlessly pro-military service. It can still make me cry in 10 seconds flat though.

― There's more Italy than necessary. (in orbit), Wednesday, July 31, 2019 1:15 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

Yeah, this is totally it. Like, it's way, way sub-sub-sub- "Your Fave Is Problematic" (because frankly everything is problematic) but it's just the constant realisation how deeply these kinds of narratives are interwoven through anything which has managed to jump through all the hoops to get on television. It's complicated. Like, how to turn off the internal critic long enough to just enjoy a dumb show as relaxing entertainment.

(I generally don't really like television as a medium, *because* I find it emotionally manipulative. Like, if I'm reading something in a book, I can underline and write "fuck your patriarchal assumptions" in the margin and carry on reading, feeling like I've expressed my disagreement. But television is really enveloping and specifically goes at provoking emotional reactions... but that's an argument for another day.)

Absolutely! I think this is why I have gotten super into astrology memes. There was something I read recently about astrology memes and queer culture and anti-hierarchical structure (maybe) that was gratifying.

― sarahell, Wednesday, July 31, 2019 8:49 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

In *theory*, I really like the idea of astrology as resistant culture and queer culture? And I always pay attention to what people say when they talk about astrology, because when they say "I'm like ~this~, because I'm a Taurus..." they are giving you the gift of information about themselves? It's good to discover how people view themselves, and find out how they want to be treated, and saying "my sign is like..." is a low stress way to express that.

But I also hate astrology because every single astrology meme treats my sign like the absolute asshole of the zodiac and all I can think every time I see one is "fuck you, go swive" (of course playing right into the stereotype, ugh)

((Also, I just have to post the meme that ~Economics is just Astrology for white men~ because it makes me laugh.))

(Thanks for being understanding. I'm not in the greatest place at the moment, and could really just do with friendly chatter.)

But I also hate astrology because every single astrology meme treats my sign like the absolute asshole of the zodiac and all I can think every time I see one is "fuck you, go swive" (of course playing right into the stereotype, ugh)

I don't really do astrology but that might be partly because I was born ~on the cusp~ of two signs and everyone who has learnt this fact has enthusiastically agreed that I had all the many bad aspects of both but was clearly largely the latter sign because that is the sign for stubborn rude selfish assholes like me

(me and my birthdaymate Hitler, yay)

this is now extra funny because iirc - sorry for .xls-ing, hope you don't mind but I'll modreq deletion if you do - you're the former of those two signs (and the one most British horoscopes think I am, whereas most American ones put me as the latter) so it seems either way there is no escape from my inherent star-ordained assholishness

btw nearly everyone I've ever dated also had their birthday on the 20th or 21st of the month, maybe we ~cusp people~ are a thing

Oh, don't worry about it! It's fine! You and I have known each other since the early days of ILX when happy birthday threads were a regular thing. (Another plus for astrology - I am shit at remembering birthdays but good at remembering star signs!)

I guess this is the thing about being born under one of the asshole star signs, is, y'know - asshole to whom? I tend to get along with the principled (stubborn), forthright and honest (rude) and well self-contained (selfish) asshole signs just fine. You always know where you stand with either your sign or mine. Unlike some of those more ~people skills~ signs where they will tell you whatever they think you want to hear to your face, and something completely different behind your back, haha. See you can make this go any way you like.

(it is weird that for a long period of my life, 2/3 of my close friends were either born within a couple days of my own birthday, or in the same 3 days of Leo.)

The annoying thing is that "what 80s band is your starsign?" meme that goes round regularly like clockwork and one of my close friends always reblogs it because her starsign is Bowie and she's a massive Bowie fan. But my starsign is a really shitty band I can't stand. (And they stick Kraftwerk under some random sign, when Kraftwerk was founded by an Aries and a Leo, and the band itself is an Aries based on its foundation date? Like, do your research, Astrology meme fans!)

xpost i am birthday mates with Trump so I feel you, spacecadet.

(me and my birthdaymate Hitler, yay)

― a passing spacecadet

if it makes you feel better you can think of your birthdaymate as dank nugs

my particular brand of questionable assignation of personality traits is the myers briggs type inventory - so far as i can tell it's not actually more meaningful or accurate than horoscope or blood type but it's useful for self-stereotyping. (i read once that someone did come up with a scientifically valid way of grouping personality types, but all they managed to determine from it was that teenage boys are assholes.) what i like about it is that i can (and did) change my myers briggs type from the asshole (the one they always gave me was woodrow wilson, i guess because hitler would be a bad portent) to a non-asshole type; astrologically i'm stuck being the asshole, not even on the cusp

I'm not getting into an argument about MBTI (I don't think it's rubbish - just extremely misused, i.e. it has no business being anywhere near an HR department, but it's quite fun to think about as a tool for self exploration or understanding) buuuuttt...

No way is INTJ the Hitler of MBTI. ENTJ is the Hitler. (Haha, we had to do it for work, and my boss got ENTJ and he is the least Hitler person you ever met, so... as I said, useless for HR purposes.)

The cusp is not a thing.

Also, don't all signs come off as assholes in astrology memes???