I say “ladies and gentleman boys and girls and friends beyond the binary”, it’s a bit unwieldy but if it keeps limmy off my back it’s worth it
― shhh / let peaceful like things (wins), Sunday, 21 July 2019 15:33 (four years ago) link
And I've never heard 'dudes' used that way fwiw.
xp
― pomenitul, Sunday, 21 July 2019 15:33 (four years ago) link
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internalized_oppression
― Skip Spence None the Richer (sleeve), Sunday, 21 July 2019 15:35 (four years ago) link
Neutralizing the word 'guy' isn't the same thing as masculinizing women.
― pomenitul, Sunday, 21 July 2019 15:35 (four years ago) link
I’m not being unfair. I’m aware and I personally reject the idea that dudes is neutral or inclusive. It’s placing men as default and we get to be included. That’s not neutral to me. I’m suggesting it’s perfectly safe to avoid this usage. The ongoing defense of it is weird to me.
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Sunday, 21 July 2019 15:37 (four years ago) link
It’s placing men as default and we get to be included
In this specific instance, they would argue that it doesn't place men as the default. On the contrary, it changes so-called 'men', problematizing binary distinctions in the process.
― pomenitul, Sunday, 21 July 2019 15:39 (four years ago) link
lads
― phil neville jacket (darraghmac), Sunday, 21 July 2019 15:44 (four years ago) link
i'm trying to use "hey guys" less across the board no matter whom i'm talking to tbrr
― Vape Store (crüt), Sunday, 21 July 2019 15:47 (four years ago) link
which i think relates to both LL's and pomenitul's points — it's insulting to use a male gendered term as gender neutral, but it also feels weird to maintain a gendered way of addressing groups of just men
― Vape Store (crüt), Sunday, 21 July 2019 15:50 (four years ago) link
I for one do not want to hear anyone saying "Alright, y'all?" in a London accent. Alternatives: "Hi, all" / "What can I get you?". Keep it simple eh.
― crumhorn invasion (Matt #2), Sunday, 21 July 2019 15:51 (four years ago) link
oi mates
― Vape Store (crüt), Sunday, 21 July 2019 15:52 (four years ago) link
is it, is it tho crut xxp
i dunno
insisting to ppl half the world away what is and isnt good or bad for them to do in a matter as light, complex, cultural, whatever as this seems strong.
idk
youd want to be awful excellent at this stuff id say to do more than just discuss it with interest
― phil neville jacket (darraghmac), Sunday, 21 July 2019 15:53 (four years ago) link
I’m going to suspend this discussion until this phantom group of female friends can contribute their opinions directly. I’ve also got many female friends who probably agree with a cautious avoidance of the usage of dude as a gender neutral or inclusive term (aka my perspective in this discussion)
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Sunday, 21 July 2019 16:03 (four years ago) link
anyone have an issue with "everybody/anybody" as in "is everybody ready to order" and "anybody have any questions"
― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Sunday, 21 July 2019 16:05 (four years ago) link
the tough one for me is "chick" which i got all the way into my thirties with all friends of both genders using casually and lately has proven genuinely offensive to lots of people; i've always used it as the feminine of dude but this is no longer flying
― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Sunday, 21 July 2019 16:07 (four years ago) link
guys: derives from guy fawkes (a guy) dudes: derives from yankee doodle (a dude) pals: derives from the romany "pal" (meaning brother or comrade) chums: derives (i just discovered) from chambermates! a formation "typical of the late-17c. fondness for clipped words" -- and apparently used mainly of bachelors rooming together comrades: derives from spanish camarada, also meaning chambermate (so presumably works as above, despite solid red lineage) citizens: solid red lineage unbesmirched (except by, like guillotines and stuff)
fellows: derives from old norse "felagi" meaning (roughly) "one who puts down money with another in a joint venture" – apparently it is "not etymologically masculine" and used of women in e.g. the king james bible!! fellas: the above no longer applies
fellow kids: obviously this is what i always say
― mark s, Sunday, 21 July 2019 16:08 (four years ago) link
uh lads: discussion suspended f yalls i
― phil neville jacket (darraghmac), Sunday, 21 July 2019 16:08 (four years ago) link
LL, I'm not arguing against your position per se because I don't entirely agree with my friends either and would rather give credence to my interlocutor(s) based on the context, which varies a fair amount from country to country and community to community. Any absolutist position on this particular point strikes me as linguistically and culturally problematic.
― pomenitul, Sunday, 21 July 2019 16:10 (four years ago) link
"y'all" is good if it's available in your region, and when "y'all" seems insufficiently inclusive, there's "all y'all"
― Brad C., Sunday, 21 July 2019 16:11 (four years ago) link
Just say "hey, assholes"!
― Fuck Trump, cops, and the CBP (Neanderthal), Sunday, 21 July 2019 16:12 (four years ago) link
Wait I'm sorry, "arseholes" in some regions
There's also a certain word that begins with a c and that doesn't have quite the same meaning from one continent to the next.
― pomenitul, Sunday, 21 July 2019 16:13 (four years ago) link
chaps?
― Arthur Lowe & Love (Tom D.), Sunday, 21 July 2019 16:14 (four years ago) link
chap derives from chapman = trader (cf also cheapjack) and was coded male from the start
― mark s, Sunday, 21 July 2019 16:16 (four years ago) link
товарищи
― pomenitul, Sunday, 21 July 2019 16:17 (four years ago) link
друг
― mark s, Sunday, 21 July 2019 16:21 (four years ago) link
Talking of expressions from strange, foreign climes - ay up, me ducks.
― Arthur Lowe & Love (Tom D.), Sunday, 21 July 2019 16:22 (four years ago) link
I overuse dude but it's more of an emotive or exclamation. It's also probably really regional/generational.
― Yerac, Sunday, 21 July 2019 16:33 (four years ago) link
Like, all my friends (female) and I who grew up together call each other dude.
― Yerac, Sunday, 21 July 2019 16:34 (four years ago) link
In any kind of work setting though, I would never call a group of people "guys" or "dudes."
― Yerac, Sunday, 21 July 2019 16:40 (four years ago) link
Same. It's definitely informal.
― pomenitul, Sunday, 21 July 2019 16:41 (four years ago) link
I overuse “guys” a lot. I blame growing up in the Midwest in the 80s
― brigadier pudding (DJP), Sunday, 21 July 2019 16:51 (four years ago) link
Feel like we should assign everybody numbers
― Fuck Trump, cops, and the CBP (Neanderthal), Sunday, 21 July 2019 16:52 (four years ago) link
Only if we all end up at MIT
― brigadier pudding (DJP), Sunday, 21 July 2019 16:52 (four years ago) link
btw has anyone put “Morrissey fandom” on here yet
― brigadier pudding (DJP), Sunday, 21 July 2019 16:54 (four years ago) link
nobody would admit to it iirc
― phil neville jacket (darraghmac), Sunday, 21 July 2019 16:57 (four years ago) link
Feel like we wouldn’t even be having this conversation if “folks” wasn’t a great example of the thread category (and what set off the discussion in the June US politics thread). It’s probably another detail of Obama’s exceptional political talent and charisma that he could use it in the 2010s and not immediately sound like a disingenuous huckster.
― El Tomboto, Sunday, 21 July 2019 16:57 (four years ago) link
Same. Unless you actually came from the Southern US, saying "y'all" around here would be as goofy as greeting people by saying "top o' the morning". I would think you were ironically imitating or mocking a Southern accent.
― All along there is the sound of feedback (Sund4r), Sunday, 21 July 2019 17:25 (four years ago) link
Obama should have said “we tortured some guys”
― shhh / let peaceful like things (wins), Sunday, 21 July 2019 17:28 (four years ago) link
Y'all better keep your appointment with the Wicker Man, y'hear?
― Fuck Trump, cops, and the CBP (Neanderthal), Sunday, 21 July 2019 17:29 (four years ago) link
Wicker Dude, surely?
― Arthur Lowe & Love (Tom D.), Sunday, 21 July 2019 17:31 (four years ago) link
"What would you all like to order?"
There. Pretty sure that would work in any English-speaking setting.
― pplains, Sunday, 21 July 2019 17:52 (four years ago) link
each
― phil neville jacket (darraghmac), Sunday, 21 July 2019 17:56 (four years ago) link
Wicker Guy
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Sunday, 21 July 2019 18:20 (four years ago) link
Wicker Cuck
― president of deluded fruitcakes anonymous (silby), Sunday, 21 July 2019 18:56 (four years ago) link
I don't fully understand why plural "you" isn't good enough
― brigadier pudding (DJP), Sunday, 21 July 2019 20:14 (four years ago) link
this is america
"what would you consumers like to order?"
― Karl Malone, Sunday, 21 July 2019 20:24 (four years ago) link
It is grammatically correct and concise; it just doesn't seem to be used that way that frequently in English. Idk why; I'm guessing because it's hard to distinguish from singular "you"? xp
― All along there is the sound of feedback (Sund4r), Sunday, 21 July 2019 20:24 (four years ago) link
it is good enough
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Sunday, 21 July 2019 20:25 (four years ago) link
this is america"what would you consumers like to order?"
― Ask Heavy Manners (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 21 July 2019 20:33 (four years ago) link