things you once thought socially acceptable which now horrify you to remember

You're not, although I've been hearing it creeping in occasionally over the last 10 years or so. xp

Feel like maybe there was at least one thread dedicated to this particular topic a decade or so ago

I know it's completely unfair and a prime instance of bad linguistics but whenever I hear 'folks' I can't help but parse it as Volksdeutsche and the like.

Personally as a not-guy and not-dude I very much try to avoid using those terms gender-neutrally. Not always successfully, it takes effort to remember but it’s worthwhile effort imo. Y’all is the only way out. Youse and yins are regional variants and still preferable to guys or dudes as a catch all term for all people.

^^^

"y'all" >>>>>>>>> "guys" in every conceivable situation

I totally get where you're coming from and sympathise, but some of my female friends conversely find it insulting not to be called 'guys' because they want to be included and don't much care for such gendered distinctions. And 'y'all' is also regional in its own right (from a Canadian perspective, at least).

xp

an anti-porn protest on a street corner (they had a table full of pamphlets and a giant blown-up version of the infamous Hustler cover where a woman's body is being fed into a meat grinder

LOL @ epic point missing re: that cover

Y'all really wanna hear Brits say 'y'all'?

would "mates" work?

Youse works in Glasgow.

the nearest I can think of would be "you lot"

Brothers and sisters, why are we fighting?

'You lot' is disparaging, no?

what?

don't stop

give it all you got

i was cursed by god to do stupid moron things all the time so i'm feeling this thread

― Vape Store (crüt), Thursday, July 11, 2019 8:17 PM (one week ago) bookmarkflaglink

btw it is probably socially unacceptable to use the word "moron" and i apologize

"You lot" is not a good idea.

Pom, with respect to your female friends, they can feel however they want. It’s better to be more inclusive and if that means saying “hello friends!” Rather than “sup my dudes!” I don’t think it’s a big deal for anyone or their handful of female friends.

I think you're being unfair to their argument that using 'guys' gender-neutrally is more inclusive.

I say “ladies and gentleman boys and girls and friends beyond the binary”, it’s a bit unwieldy but if it keeps limmy off my back it’s worth it

And I've never heard 'dudes' used that way fwiw.

xp

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internalized_oppression

Neutralizing the word 'guy' isn't the same thing as masculinizing women.

I’m not being unfair. I’m aware and I personally reject the idea that dudes is neutral or inclusive. It’s placing men as default and we get to be included. That’s not neutral to me. I’m suggesting it’s perfectly safe to avoid this usage. The ongoing defense of it is weird to me.

It’s placing men as default and we get to be included

In this specific instance, they would argue that it doesn't place men as the default. On the contrary, it changes so-called 'men', problematizing binary distinctions in the process.

lads

i'm trying to use "hey guys" less across the board no matter whom i'm talking to tbrr

which i think relates to both LL's and pomenitul's points — it's insulting to use a male gendered term as gender neutral, but it also feels weird to maintain a gendered way of addressing groups of just men

I for one do not want to hear anyone saying "Alright, y'all?" in a London accent. Alternatives: "Hi, all" / "What can I get you?". Keep it simple eh.

oi mates

is it, is it tho crut xxp

i dunno

insisting to ppl half the world away what is and isnt good or bad for them to do in a matter as light, complex, cultural, whatever as this seems strong.

idk

youd want to be awful excellent at this stuff id say to do more than just discuss it with interest

I’m going to suspend this discussion until this phantom group of female friends can contribute their opinions directly. I’ve also got many female friends who probably agree with a cautious avoidance of the usage of dude as a gender neutral or inclusive term (aka my perspective in this discussion)

anyone have an issue with "everybody/anybody"
as in "is everybody ready to order" and "anybody have any questions"

the tough one for me is "chick" which i got all the way into my thirties with all friends of both genders using casually and lately has proven genuinely offensive to lots of people; i've always used it as the feminine of dude but this is no longer flying

guys: derives from guy fawkes (a guy)
dudes: derives from yankee doodle (a dude)
pals: derives from the romany "pal" (meaning brother or comrade)
chums: derives (i just discovered) from chambermates! a formation "typical of the late-17c. fondness for clipped words" -- and apparently used mainly of bachelors rooming together
comrades: derives from spanish camarada, also meaning chambermate (so presumably works as above, despite solid red lineage)
citizens: solid red lineage unbesmirched (except by, like guillotines and stuff)

fellows: derives from old norse "felagi" meaning (roughly) "one who puts down money with another in a joint venture" – apparently it is "not etymologically masculine" and used of women in e.g. the king james bible!!
fellas: the above no longer applies

fellow kids: obviously this is what i always say

uh lads: discussion suspended f yalls i

LL, I'm not arguing against your position per se because I don't entirely agree with my friends either and would rather give credence to my interlocutor(s) based on the context, which varies a fair amount from country to country and community to community. Any absolutist position on this particular point strikes me as linguistically and culturally problematic.

"y'all" is good if it's available in your region, and when "y'all" seems insufficiently inclusive, there's "all y'all"

Just say "hey, assholes"!

Wait I'm sorry, "arseholes" in some regions

There's also a certain word that begins with a c and that doesn't have quite the same meaning from one continent to the next.

chaps?

chap derives from chapman = trader (cf also cheapjack) and was coded male from the start

товарищи

друг

Talking of expressions from strange, foreign climes - ay up, me ducks.

I overuse dude but it's more of an emotive or exclamation. It's also probably really regional/generational.

Like, all my friends (female) and I who grew up together call each other dude.

In any kind of work setting though, I would never call a group of people "guys" or "dudes."

Same. It's definitely informal.

I overuse “guys” a lot. I blame growing up in the Midwest in the 80s