Are you really horrified by this?
― All along there is the sound of feedback (Sund4r), Sunday, 21 July 2019 12:44 (four years ago) link
Idk, there was some discussion of it on the faculty listserv the last time I had a faculty job; there were some passionate defences on the grounds that this is a proud New England idiom, which was lol to me since I've heard it in most English-speaking places I've been in and use it all the time, despite not having grown up in New England. I'm not convinced that turning "guys" into a gender-neutral address (as opposed to saying "hello ladies" or something, which I gather is what Limmy might prefer?) is in fact sexist. None of the women in that clip seem very troubled by it.
― All along there is the sound of feedback (Sund4r), Sunday, 21 July 2019 12:50 (four years ago) link
Unless it is just the imprecision that is horrifying??
― All along there is the sound of feedback (Sund4r), Sunday, 21 July 2019 12:52 (four years ago) link
The imprecision is horrifying to Limmy.
― Arthur Lowe & Love (Tom D.), Sunday, 21 July 2019 13:01 (four years ago) link
... and the Americanization, I imagine.
XXXXP - yeah, I'm only horrified by the thought that I might be repeatedly insulting a colleague on some level and have only recently thought about that possibility, I'm not *horrified* at myself for using it.
I feel Glaswegians are fairly at home to Americanisms in speech, think of Frankie Boyle and his repeated use of 'man' which me and my mates used in secondary school all the time but eventually grew out of, I guess wherever FB come up it stuck around for longer.
― MaresNest, Sunday, 21 July 2019 13:09 (four years ago) link
In my many decades I have encountered someone taking offense exactly once, telling a waitress “we are not guys, we have female body parts” - well, they were a little more specific- so there’s that.
― Ask Heavy Manners (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 21 July 2019 13:11 (four years ago) link
lads
― Vape Store (crüt), Sunday, 21 July 2019 13:12 (four years ago) link
layds?
Alas 'peeps' was also ruined. Gotta be a single syllable solution though.
― nashwan, Sunday, 21 July 2019 13:15 (four years ago) link
About 20 years ago I was working at Applebee's and got lectured by a middle-aged woman when I approached her table and asked if "you guys would like to start off with something to drink?" Since then, I've been cautious about using gender-neutral guys in professional/unfamiliar contexts but will still use it among people who seem like normal, healthy, well-balanced individuals.
― ☮ (peace, man), Sunday, 21 July 2019 13:15 (four years ago) link
'Dudes' has steadily become a catch-all in some circles (or at least used by women referring to other women or any mixed group of ppl) which I like but probably shouldn't.
― nashwan, Sunday, 21 July 2019 13:19 (four years ago) link
Feel like maybe there was at least one thread dedicated to this particular topic a decade or so ago
― Ask Heavy Manners (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 21 July 2019 13:21 (four years ago) link
But don’t think my search skillz0r are up to finding it, if it indeed ever existed
― Ask Heavy Manners (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 21 July 2019 13:23 (four years ago) link
I feel Glaswegians are fairly at home to Americanisms
Not Limmy! See lloydspharmacy, all one word.
― Arthur Lowe & Love (Tom D.), Sunday, 21 July 2019 13:24 (four years ago) link
I worked next to a guy who at meetings would do the thing of standing up any time a lady was taking her seat.
― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Sunday, 21 July 2019 14:03 (four years ago) link
Do you doff your hat or throw your coat over mud puddles?
I'm with Limmy, though I do acknowledge there are instances when "guys" can be gender-neutral:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFYMijdQ_sA
Whereas Limmy might think it's too Yankee (USA) and Sund4r says it's a Yankee (New England) idiom, I've always heard it used more by Yankees (anyone from north of 37º Latitude) than anyone.
That's why our waiters say "What can I get y'all?"
― pplains, Sunday, 21 July 2019 14:10 (four years ago) link
Sund4r says it's a Yankee (New England) idiom
I didn't say this! Other people at a New England school said this. I thought it was funny bc I grew up hearing it all the time in Canada.
― All along there is the sound of feedback (Sund4r), Sunday, 21 July 2019 14:18 (four years ago) link
I was once punched for calling two women "guys." To be fair, they were militant lesbians running an anti-porn protest on a street corner (they had a table full of pamphlets and a giant blown-up version of the infamous Hustler cover where a woman's body is being fed into a meat grinder). Anyway, I walked up to their table and said, "Can I get one of you guys' pamphlets?" and one of them shouted, "We're not guys!" and punched me in the chest. It wasn't much of a punch. I walked away without taking the pamphlet.
― shared unit of analysis (unperson), Sunday, 21 July 2019 14:21 (four years ago) link
I grew up around people who use 'guys' gender-neutrally, and I've never known anyone to be offended by it.
As a side note, 'folks' strikes me as more American than Canadian. Or am I making this up?
― pomenitul, Sunday, 21 July 2019 14:24 (four years ago) link
― ☮ (peace, man), Sunday, 21 July 2019 13:15 (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink
you can't let pricks like this get to you tbh
― phil neville jacket (darraghmac), Sunday, 21 July 2019 14:26 (four years ago) link
You're not, although I've been hearing it creeping in occasionally over the last 10 years or so. xp
― All along there is the sound of feedback (Sund4r), Sunday, 21 July 2019 14:27 (four years ago) link
― El Tomboto, Sunday, 21 July 2019 14:27 (four years ago) link
I know it's completely unfair and a prime instance of bad linguistics but whenever I hear 'folks' I can't help but parse it as Volksdeutsche and the like.
― pomenitul, Sunday, 21 July 2019 14:35 (four years ago) link
Personally as a not-guy and not-dude I very much try to avoid using those terms gender-neutrally. Not always successfully, it takes effort to remember but it’s worthwhile effort imo. Y’all is the only way out. Youse and yins are regional variants and still preferable to guys or dudes as a catch all term for all people.
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Sunday, 21 July 2019 14:50 (four years ago) link
^^^
"y'all" >>>>>>>>> "guys" in every conceivable situation
― Skip Spence None the Richer (sleeve), Sunday, 21 July 2019 14:57 (four years ago) link
I totally get where you're coming from and sympathise, but some of my female friends conversely find it insulting not to be called 'guys' because they want to be included and don't much care for such gendered distinctions. And 'y'all' is also regional in its own right (from a Canadian perspective, at least).
xp
― pomenitul, Sunday, 21 July 2019 14:58 (four years ago) link
an anti-porn protest on a street corner (they had a table full of pamphlets and a giant blown-up version of the infamous Hustler cover where a woman's body is being fed into a meat grinder
LOL @ epic point missing re: that cover
― Οὖτις, Sunday, 21 July 2019 14:59 (four years ago) link
Y'all really wanna hear Brits say 'y'all'?
― nashwan, Sunday, 21 July 2019 14:59 (four years ago) link
would "mates" work?
― Skip Spence None the Richer (sleeve), Sunday, 21 July 2019 15:01 (four years ago) link
Youse works in Glasgow.
― Arthur Lowe & Love (Tom D.), Sunday, 21 July 2019 15:14 (four years ago) link
the nearest I can think of would be "you lot"
― Colonel Poo, Sunday, 21 July 2019 15:17 (four years ago) link
Brothers and sisters, why are we fighting?
― Ask Heavy Manners (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 21 July 2019 15:18 (four years ago) link
'You lot' is disparaging, no?
― pomenitul, Sunday, 21 July 2019 15:20 (four years ago) link
what?
don't stop
give it all you got
― Skip Spence None the Richer (sleeve), Sunday, 21 July 2019 15:21 (four years ago) link
i was cursed by god to do stupid moron things all the time so i'm feeling this thread― Vape Store (crüt), Thursday, July 11, 2019 8:17 PM (one week ago) bookmarkflaglink
― Vape Store (crüt), Thursday, July 11, 2019 8:17 PM (one week ago) bookmarkflaglink
btw it is probably socially unacceptable to use the word "moron" and i apologize
― Vape Store (crüt), Sunday, 21 July 2019 15:23 (four years ago) link
"You lot" is not a good idea.
― Arthur Lowe & Love (Tom D.), Sunday, 21 July 2019 15:26 (four years ago) link
Pom, with respect to your female friends, they can feel however they want. It’s better to be more inclusive and if that means saying “hello friends!” Rather than “sup my dudes!” I don’t think it’s a big deal for anyone or their handful of female friends.
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Sunday, 21 July 2019 15:27 (four years ago) link
I think you're being unfair to their argument that using 'guys' gender-neutrally is more inclusive.
― pomenitul, Sunday, 21 July 2019 15:32 (four years ago) link
I say “ladies and gentleman boys and girls and friends beyond the binary”, it’s a bit unwieldy but if it keeps limmy off my back it’s worth it
― shhh / let peaceful like things (wins), Sunday, 21 July 2019 15:33 (four years ago) link
And I've never heard 'dudes' used that way fwiw.
― pomenitul, Sunday, 21 July 2019 15:33 (four years ago) link
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internalized_oppression
― Skip Spence None the Richer (sleeve), Sunday, 21 July 2019 15:35 (four years ago) link
Neutralizing the word 'guy' isn't the same thing as masculinizing women.
― pomenitul, Sunday, 21 July 2019 15:35 (four years ago) link
I’m not being unfair. I’m aware and I personally reject the idea that dudes is neutral or inclusive. It’s placing men as default and we get to be included. That’s not neutral to me. I’m suggesting it’s perfectly safe to avoid this usage. The ongoing defense of it is weird to me.
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Sunday, 21 July 2019 15:37 (four years ago) link
It’s placing men as default and we get to be included
In this specific instance, they would argue that it doesn't place men as the default. On the contrary, it changes so-called 'men', problematizing binary distinctions in the process.
― pomenitul, Sunday, 21 July 2019 15:39 (four years ago) link
― phil neville jacket (darraghmac), Sunday, 21 July 2019 15:44 (four years ago) link
i'm trying to use "hey guys" less across the board no matter whom i'm talking to tbrr
― Vape Store (crüt), Sunday, 21 July 2019 15:47 (four years ago) link
which i think relates to both LL's and pomenitul's points — it's insulting to use a male gendered term as gender neutral, but it also feels weird to maintain a gendered way of addressing groups of just men
― Vape Store (crüt), Sunday, 21 July 2019 15:50 (four years ago) link
I for one do not want to hear anyone saying "Alright, y'all?" in a London accent. Alternatives: "Hi, all" / "What can I get you?". Keep it simple eh.
― crumhorn invasion (Matt #2), Sunday, 21 July 2019 15:51 (four years ago) link
oi mates
― Vape Store (crüt), Sunday, 21 July 2019 15:52 (four years ago) link
is it, is it tho crut xxp
i dunno
insisting to ppl half the world away what is and isnt good or bad for them to do in a matter as light, complex, cultural, whatever as this seems strong.
idk
youd want to be awful excellent at this stuff id say to do more than just discuss it with interest
― phil neville jacket (darraghmac), Sunday, 21 July 2019 15:53 (four years ago) link