At the risk of stating the obvious, the July 2019 US Politics Thread is horse-sh*t

pogs

^ was that meant for the things you once thought socially acceptable which now horrify you to remember thread?

that's just a provisional response while we work out a better answer.

the hatred goes waaaaaay back. i was listening to the Daily episode on busing today (which was itself just a summary of the "Busing actually worked" article that the NYT published earlier this week). And no matter how many times i've heard the clip, it's always shocking to hear wallace say "In the name of the greatest people that have ever trod this earth, I draw the line in the dust and toss the gauntlet before the feet of tyranny, and I say segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever." while the crowd roars its approval

Abortions for some, Trump-Themed Pogs for others

Reagan opened his 1980 campaign in the Mississippi town where the Freedom Riders men were murdered. He discussed state's rights

hatred isn't something that we can move past, it is a chronic condition that needs to be constantly monitored and intentionally opposed.

i can't tell if i'm saying anything useful or just stating commonly understood things. i guess part of the problem is that what i think is commonly understood now seems to be a radical position to half of the country

A question I've been pondering lately: is there something(s) that precipitated this? Because it just feels like directionless hate from people whose lives remain largely unaltered by the object of their hatred.

Obviously much studied and debated in the aftermath of WWII, and you can argue about the evolutionary mechanisms at work, but at a base level us-vs-them is ALWAYS a politically potent platform and the challenge of building a sense of common purpose and identity in a multi-racial/ethnic/religious society has been part of the American narrative from the start. Economic anxiety certainly fuels it, but there's also I think the reality that it's always lurking there, ready to be triggered. Bosnia, Rwanda, there is a hard-wired response that is available for people willing or eager to tap into it. And it produces a lot of energy! That's the biggest reason for the lack of institutional Republican pushback. They need fuel to run on, and this isn't the fuel the more measured among them would prefer -- or at least, they'd rather it was a smaller percentage of the mix -- but it's what's keeping their engine running now.

What people get out of it on the individual level, the people at the rallies, I think isn't that hard to understand. It feels good. It feels powerful. You're right, they're wrong, you're American, they're not, it's way more fun than listening to someone talk about tax policy. Anger at that level is invigorating, even joyful.

I guess I should have prefaced by saying, yeah, I know the roots of racism and anti-immigrant sentiment run deep and long and are by no means a new thing. It's just this increasing roar of fury which doesn't seem to correspond to any measurable real-world trends. Segregationist sentiment in the mid-20th Century south, for instance, at least made some kind of sense inasmuch as there was an obvious sea change taking place which had an impact on white people. But what's happening right now? In what way are these rally attendees being so traumatically inconvenienced by brown-skinned people at this point in time?

Anger at that level is invigorating, even joyful.

and intensely creepy to anyone reminded of Two Minutes Hate. but yeah. that kind of dynamic will always be there. and if in some utopian future it manages to go away, it will come back even stronger once some innovative tech dude realizes that he can harness the hatred of the masses for political gain and/or profit

What percentage of these people would even be aware of the existence of Rep. Omar if their fuckin' demagogue-in-chief wasn't casting her as a boogieman for them to hurl invective at?

Segregationist sentiment in the mid-20th Century south, for instance, at least made some kind of sense inasmuch as there was an obvious sea change taking place which had an impact on white people. But what's happening right now? In what way are these rally attendees being so traumatically inconvenienced by brown-skinned people at this point in time?

white people are drifting toward the 50% mark in this country. they're confronting what it might mean to lose white privilege (even if they don't think of it in those terms) and suddenly white supremacy seems more appealing (even if they don't think of it in those terms)

Did y’all forget what his rallies were like 3 years ago? This is not a new development!

It's just this increasing roar of fury which doesn't seem to correspond to any measurable real-world trends.

I think they're triggered by seeing people they would probably call the cops on becoming members of congress

And cast members of Star Wars.

One of the harder things for me to realize -- not morally hard, just hard to actually comprehend -- is how many white people really do think of themselves as "white people," as an identity, a tribe. I can't relate to it -- I know I'm white, I'm aware of what it confers in terms of privilege and power, but it's not some affirmative part of my self-conception -- but it is actually a real thing for a lot of people. They may not even realize it themselves until they feel it threatened. They might deny that that's what's motivating them, what's being tapped into, but it's clearly a big part of the picture.

xposts to Karl, I get that, too, but at this point it's still just theoretical. There isn't a lot of real-world impact at the moment.

Part of it, I've thought for a while, is that white people are terrified of the notion of having to eventually compete on an actual level playing field where they're almost certainly going to be found wanting.

LINDSEY GRAHAM blames Democrats when asked about “send her back” chants:

"No, I don't think it's racist to say. … I don't think a Somali refugee embracing Trump would not have been asked to go back. If you're a racist you want everybody from Somalia to go back"

"It's only racist if he called every single black person a 'n_____' instead of just those who disagree with him"

Lindsey please die

i've told this story before, maybe multiple times, but i always think of this time at my atlanta summer bookstore job during college. one of my clearest memories/examples of, as a white person, getting approached by outright racists who assume you're in their same club. time magazine had its "Welcome to Amexica" cover story (June 2001) about like, new cultural hybrids and growing bilingualism in southern Texas. this older white dude - i'm gonna say 50s, 60s at the highest - comes up to the counter with it and is like "have you read this?" and i'm like no, maybe i'll check it out before the new issue comes out and we pull 'em off the shelves, and he says (I'm pretty sure this is word for word) "This is the most important story of our time. In a few years, people like you and me won't be in charge anymore." he was as straightforwardly focused on maintaining his power as a white citizen; there was no dressing up at all. eighteen years ago.

TBRR I say "this is what we are" and "this is America" a lot because this is what we have been for pretty much the entirety of my life and it's a reminder to my white friends that, while I come from just as privileged a background as many of them, the way this country treats me by default is VERY different from the way it treats them

For example, not very many of my white Ivy League friends have been outright hassled by police/security for having the temerity to exist in a space where they were allowed to be; I have and so has every single male in my extended family of educators/state employees. Two of my great-grandfathers were lynched, one in a manner so scandalous that it launched an FBI investigation. This is all intrinsic to the American experience and it's insulting to me that people react as if this suddenly appeared out of nowhere, like all of this animosity and hatred was solved and a few bad actors resurrected it.

It's just this increasing roar of fury which doesn't seem to correspond to any measurable real-world trends.

I don't think that's really right -- it really is true that the proportion of Americans born abroad is larger now than it has been in the lifetime of anyone now living:

https://www.census.gov/newsroom/pdf/cspan_fb_slides.pdf

Middle-aged and older Americans grew up in a United States essentially without immigrants, and I think most don't know that the America of today is the historical norm, and the mid-20th-century clampdown on immigration which they see as "normal" was the anomaly.

It should come as no surprise that Miami Cubans over 60 are cool with fascism.

This is all intrinsic to the American experience and it's insulting to me that people react as if this suddenly appeared out of nowhere, like all of this animosity and hatred was solved and a few bad actors resurrected it.

Yeah, it's more like over the last 50 years we reached the latest of a series of plateaus -- each one preceded by fights and violence -- where we were able to at least remove legal segregation in most forms and people more or less agreed to not say certain things in public or mixed company. But we've reached the end of that period, and now you have people wanting to, like, remove Confederate statues! Talk about the racist history of zoning! And just basically be honest, God help us, about American history. And all of that is just a step way too far for people who barely/grudging agreed to the previous terms in the first place.

DJP thoroughly otm. Denying that this is part and parcel of the American experience is like pointing to an imagined, monstrous inhumanity as the sole cause of our species’ innumerable crimes.

I can't help but feel that the internet itself might be the central catalyst of what we're seeing today, inasmuch as it's had this weird dual effect of a) shining a light on the breadth of human experience for those who might otherwise have never seen or experienced much beyond their own community and b) allowing birds of a feather to easily flock together, free of the bounds of geography, and construct little fortified echo chambers where they can collectively reinforce the righteousness of whatever self-description they choose to rally around.

The newly unsealed search warrant materials in Michael Cohen's case are up in SDNY, per judge's order yesterday. In the first exhibit (which is 200+ pages so I don't have a link yet), this is what the prev. redacted section on the campaign contribution allegations looks like now pic.twitter.com/r0pKVoEy4n

— Zoe Tillman (@ZoeTillman) July 18, 2019

FWIW I don't know that anyone itt has suggested that the hatred and xenophobia currently being expressed are anything novel. The volume and vehemence, however, are certainly at levels I haven't previously experienced in my lifetime.

b) allowing birds of a feather to easily flock together, free of the bounds of geography, and construct little fortified echo chambers where they can collectively reinforce the righteousness of whatever self-description they choose to rally around.

well yeah otherwise they'd have to make due with printing out their own newsletters and calling into AM talk shows

tbh, as an active BK gentrifier, I take "go back where you came from" as an attack that feels plenty personal; funny how that phrase doesn't seem to apply to the people you'd think it might most apply to: colonizers. during pride, i heard Peppermint give a talk about how everyone in the crowd who considered themselves an ally was now queer as far as she was concerned, with the proviso that with that inclusivity came vulnerability. Her point was that allies needed to get just as angry, activated and involved when the queer community comes under fire as one would if they saw family under attack. Same principle needs to be applied to white america's understanding of immigrant families both incoming and next generation. That's a lot easier to do in an urban setting where everyone's neighbors and friends fit the description (and goes a long way in explaining why the plurality of urban folks are pro sanctuary city) but harder to swallow within the insular and more homogenous settings of the flyover states. Maybe we can solve all this by switching homes for a month or two.

The obviousness of race/religion/ethnicity/class baiting by the superrich to distract white america from the genuine culprits behind income inequality, opioid addiction, stagnant wages and death of the middle class would be comedic if it weren't so entirely successful.

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/453641-dems-open-to-killing-filibuster-in-next-congress

“I want to talk to the president about the tweet, and what has emanated from that,” the Michigan Republican told POLITICO. “It’s one thing to do chants of ‘lock her up.’ But a chant like [‘send her back’] is simply not reflective of our constitution.”

cool, TIL jailing your political opponents is in the constitution

it's premature to concede 2020 to Yam

and *of course* this is who we are

as if this suddenly appeared out of nowhere

what was formerly tacitly understood (the Southern Strategy) now brays itself proudly

He's realized it's not playing as well as he thought it would.

Trump disavows 'send her back' chant from his rally

President Donald on Thursday disavowed the “send her back” chant that broke out at his rally on Wednesday night.

"I was not happy with it. I disagree with it,” Trump said to reporters about the chant, which began after the president again went after Rep. Ilhan Omar (D-Minn.) as part of his ongoing attack on four progressive freshman congresswomen.

This is disappointing; I had hoped it would take several more months for self-awareness to kick in, and that before that he would dig deeper and deeper until his approval ratings were in the mid-30s, with a 99% approval rating among non-college-educated white men who own three or more guns.

it'll last 'til his next rally

you were hoping he'd stoke racist chants against specific targets for a longer period of time in the hopes his approval rating would take a hit? xp

Guys he told them to stop

"Oh stop, you guys. You're really too much" *chuckles*

Xxpost i hope all of us would not want this.

you were hoping he'd stoke racist chants against specific targets for a longer period of time in the hopes his approval rating would take a hit?

Kinda, yeah. Do I want people like Ilhan Omar to be placed in actual danger because of his mouth-diarrhea? Of course not, but I have the feeling she's been traveling with security for a while. I don't think she's in any actual danger. But he is, politically and electorally. Remember, Trump is not popular. Alfred and I have to keep reminding people of this for some reason. So the more he carves his base down to the absolute bone, the better for 2020.

People were reminded that over and over right up until he got elected, so the cynicism is understandable.

I don't think she's in any actual danger.

https://missoulacurrent.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Gaby-Giffords.jpg

Gabby Giffords has something to tell you...

wait did Trump even tell them to stop it?

Also just, I'ma be cool, but how dare you bargain with a woman's life because you think it seems fine? She's not a THING, a bargaining chip to slide across the counter on the chance that it might slightly weaken an enemy. HOW DARE YOU.

xp you can watch the ugliness here, trump was explicitly stoking fires and generally being an ignorant fuckhead
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/07/17/trump_maga_rally_crowd_chants_send_her_back_to_rep_ilhan_omar.html

i'm sorry, you're wrong about that, forks.

When a reporter asked why he didn’t step in to quell the chant, Trump claimed some credit for doing so. “I think I did. I started speaking very quickly.”

once the chant (that appeared out of nowhere, nothing to do with him) started, he immediately stepped in. god damn he is a patriot

A lot of bad things are happening in Puerto Rico. The Governor is under siege, the Mayor of San Juan is a despicable and incompetent person who I wouldn’t trust under any circumstance, and the United States Congress foolishly gave 92 Billion Dollars for hurricane relief, much....

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) July 18, 2019

hate to have to say "fuck this asshole" every single day but $92 billion was the damage assessment, not even close to what we actually gave

once the chant (that appeared out of nowhere, nothing to do with him) started, he immediately stepped in. god damn he is a patriot

he didn't. he stepped away from the mic so the chant could continue

Gabby Giffords has something to tell you...

― There's more Italy than necessary. (in orbit), Thursday, July 18, 2019 12:59 PM (six minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

not america, but jo fox would have something to tell you too