no boys allowed in the room!!!!

I was talking about this thing with a friend the other day, and I realize I do this -- I mentally divide guys into two categories: the ones I totally expect to be condescending and overestimate their knowledge/expertise, and the "good ones" that are smarter and more thoughtful than that. When the category one guys do that thing, I shrug, shake my head, roll my eyes -- and think "lol u dumb, you make your gender look bad." ... When one of the "good ones" do it, I sometimes feel like it's a betrayal, and sometimes even makes me sad that everyone, including people I like a lot, are actually kinda trash.

On the whole, I enjoyed this article.

https://www.thecut.com/2019/07/if-men-carried-purses-would-they-clean-up-messes.html

100x it me -- "as if every trip [outdoors] were a trek on the appalachian trail"

i've always been proud of myself for being so prepared but it is a chore. i wonder if i thought i could rely on anyone else to have the things if i would carry less stuff around. it has never occurred to me tbh.

it was actually worse when i was younger. my cargo was reduced substantially with the invention of the ipod so i will always be thankful for that.

Observation 1: Not taking anything with you is also an economic power statement--that you can buy (or someone will give you?!) anything you unexpectedly (or expectedly!) need. I took everything including the kitchen sink with me every day when I had $0. It feels a little bit amazing now to travel a little lighter, either for a day or a week, across town or around the world, and say that I have the basics and I'll figure out the rest as it comes.

Observation 2: Conversely, I also find it satisfying to have JUST THE RIGHT THING for a challenge or crisis! And that's a pleasure of feeling capable, prepared, adult, powerful in a different way.

Por que no los dos, obviously. Still enjoyed the article.

Freedom from having to carry stuff is power.
super-otm

i bought a fanny pack and wore it for the first time this past weekend. it was pretty awesome but took a little getting used to, like maybe an hour. having my hands free and no cargo on my back felt great even if my bag kept flopping around

i am never carrying a handbag ever again
i used to! my vintage bag collection is quite enviable tbh but i will never carry those bags irl again. need hands!!

Wow! Little did I know I was opening such a deliciously passionate jar of pickles! I love it.

Did you wonder what to do with your hands?

observation 1 and 2 otm.

no i do not. i use them to gesticulate, swing, fend off attackers, hold other stuff :)

I have been carrying a messenger style bag since I was 12 (because I need my hands free!) and recently started having hip pain on that side because of it. I appreciate how this was brought up in the article.

I always carry a big bag of stuff but I live in a mess and am a mess generally, so I don't think that article works really. I mostly carry books, notebooks, my wallet, phone, and random bits of crap I've accumulated, not paper towels.

(As an aside, I say "bag" because in British English a purse means something more like a coin purse - I think what you call a purse is more like a handbag and I don't use those either, I use satchel-type bags.)

Observation 1: Not taking anything with you is also an economic power statement--that you can buy (or someone will give you?!) anything you unexpectedly (or expectedly!) need. I took everything including the kitchen sink with me every day when I had $0. It feels a little bit amazing now to travel a little lighter, either for a day or a week, across town or around the world, and say that I have the basics and I'll figure out the rest as it comes.

I do really like this observation, I think it holds more true than most of the article!

Thank you! That observation is brought to you by the self-imposed panic I would regularly feel at packing for a trip because I had to take everything I might possibly need because I had no money!

oh yeah agree -- i have felt that my whole adult life. it's part of why i resisted familiarizing myself with the marie kondo lifestyle -- i believed that i must keep/carry all useful things because otherwise i would have to buy them again. guided by scarcity :-/

i still keep things that are meaningful but if they're not, i say thank you, goodbye. esp to things that are ugly, like the pinstriped blazer i was saving for some mystery time i would need a blazer and i realized that time would never come. and if it does, there is a thrift store somewhere nearby full of blazers for me. "self-imposed panic" otm. i guess i probably still feel it but i am more aware that it's self imposed.

I carried one of these as a day bag for a couple of years because I could bungee strap it to the back of my scooter but it's rubbish for walking around cos it takes up a whole hand.

https://www.kleintools.com/sites/all/product_assets/resized/250x250/klein/5102-16.jpg

Lately I've switched to backpacks but I have to admit they're hard to get in and out. You know what's really easy to get into? A pocket.

Freedom from having to carry stuff is power.
super-otm

I just want to explore this a tiny bit, while knowing perfectly well what you meant.

Because there's also a long history of women not carrying stuff out of an aesthetic of helplessness, like bc men would carry it for them or solve their problems for them (or, as I read explicitly somewhere, that the man of the party would pay for everything so a woman didn't need a wallet or any money--presumably not including the taxi fare to get the hell home from that dystopian nightmare). That's an aesthetic that I always think is expressed perfectly by those ridiculous Judith Leiber miniature clutches fwiw.

So yeah freedom from having to carry stuff and knowing that you can deal with whatever FOR YOUR SELF is the bomb.com!

the smart phone has been like a major blessing in that regard. So many fewer things to need access to because I can use my phone for them. ... I do not get purses/bags that you have to carry with your hands, like ... to me that feels kinda ... I don't want to say privileged, but like, ... it implies that someone else will open doors for you and that you don't have to carry other things?

I have a medium sized (I think? maybe it's smallish?) shoulder bag with a strap long enough to go cross body if I have to do things like load/unload/carry music gear or packages. I avoided having a purse for many years because it was like an easy target for muggers? The one time I did get mugged (it was about 20 1/2 yrs ago), I had a purse on my shoulder, and that was what the guy wanted. After that, I would just keep what I needed in pants or jacket/coat pockets. It takes more initiative/a greater level of aggression to violate the person's body as opposed to grabbing an object they are carrying.

ha - in orbit -- we were simultaneously thinking of similar issues!

xp - those two sides of the same thing (carrying very little oneself) seems emblematic of the constant mixed messages/double edged sword that tears us apart
so many caveats to whether or not we should feel good about our independence

i can't even imagine relying on someone else for that stuff, to carry my things. also last weekend i saw lots of people and their bags working the gate at a music fest. there were a couple of festival-goers who were asked to leave their large bags outside because they exceeded the new size limit and they were all men. i don't think the gender split necessarily works wrt bags/spilage/paper towels as well as the article wants it to but the whole topic is interesting as i see people wanting less and less stuff around/on them.

I do not get purses/bags that you have to carry with your hands, like ... to me that feels kinda ... I don't want to say privileged, but like, ... it implies that someone else will open doors for you and that you don't have to carry other things?
back when i carried such things, i would imagine people would have made this assumption about me but they would have been wrong. even with my dumb vintage handbags, i was still a carrier of everything, it was just less convenient and i was younger so i cared less. i still always had advil and band-aids. no one ever opened doors for me regardless of my handbag, lol! so many women-coded accessories are coded this way, it makes me sad that they are used to divide us.

honestly, for many years the bulk of my purse was various sets of keys ... so many keys.

i carry my keys around my neck sometimes and it relieves a lot of "where are my keys?!" fear

not very cute tho

ok, I'm kinda procrastinating doing work, so ...

contents of purse:
wallet
house keys
car key
cigarette lighter
cigarette pack
tampons (2)
pair of sunglasses
loose change
phone
tinted lip balm
lipstick (2)
ipod
fuck it pouch (cloth zipper pouch that says "fuck it" on it)
a handful of audio adapters
a ground lift

A lot of women do that in schools, I have learned! Presumably a combo of always having to lock yr office/desk/bathroom/classroom when you leave it + women’s clothes not dependably having pocketsssss.

the audio adapters & ground lift are in the the fuck it pouch
oh, and a ring of work keys, that has about half the keys that used to be on that ring before I reduced my role at that job

Whoops sorry I meant wearing keys (and other things) around the neck.

i hate wearing things around my neck ... like, no offense to people who do ... but it's kinda ... idk, makes me feel like a beast of burden or a pet, and they just end up twisting around and getting chokey ... or breaking, or getting caught on things ... at worst, they fall off and get lost ...

Handbag:

Wallet
Makeup bag
Sunglasses case
Saline solution
Umbrella
Brush
Handcream
Mints x2
Earphones x2
Lint roller
Pencil case
Planner
Keys

Have been thinking about getting a smart leather looking backpack just need to find the right one.

fuck i forgot about mints -- mints are key

also, sorry if the neck thing re: feeling like a pet sounded crass -- my client that has a business making custom leather pet collars was just texting me and I think that was why my brain went there

that's what i mean about how these things (what we carry) divide us -- it makes me sad
maybe someone can write a war novel about it and call it "the things we carried" :)

i just meant on a lanyard because i frequently 1) lose my keys and 2) have to carry them everywhere at work

I liked that article! Generally I have on my person:
-change of clothes for baby
-change of clothes for boy
-nappies, mat, cotton pads, nappy disposal bags
-hand sanitiser
-baby paracetamol
-plastic fork, small plastic tub
-wallet
-keys
-large muslin
-sun cream, sun hats
-dummies
-several snacks
-3 x sunglasses
-plastic bags
-2 x water bottles
- lip balm
- wipes, paper towels
- a small child

The few times I go out BY MYSELF oh God the luxury
-wallet
-keys
-lipbalm
-phone
-tissues
-a spring in my step

What’s a dummy?

pacifier

It's so hot I'm wearing skirts a lot right now and half of them don't have pockets and it's a total ballache

Bag contains:

- sunglasses
- lipstick
- keys
- wallet
- various charger cables
- a portable charger
- usually a couple of Carmexes & some other lip balms
- water (metal keep cool type bottle)
- a number of sanitary products
- paracetamol
- headphones (Bluetooth)
- my plenue
- spare pair of earphones & adapter in case I am ever caught on the hop on public transport heaven forbid
- big hairbrush
- folding hairbrush with a mirror
- mascara
- at least five sachets of salt and sugar that I never use, why do I even have these
- glasses case & lenses
- tissues
- face wipes

Despite the obvious evidence to the contrary, I don’t consider myself to carry “a lot of stuff”

My sister has recently taken to going bag-free and just carries a card/keys/phone on her. This is too far for me, but I do this on holidays & it’s so freeing.

i hate wearing things around my neck

At work we're meant to wear a proximity fob for the doors plus our ID badge on a neck lanyard and I haaate it because when I walk up and down the corridors the fob bounces from tit to tit with each step and, well, nope. So I just stuff them in my pockets.

I think I am at both extremes of the carrying stuff debate, bcz every day I drag a rucksack ridiculously full of I don't even remember what to work, so heavy and full and so many things like empty shopping bags and once-useful bits of paper and spare socks and pills and sanitary products which have rattled around in there for so long that they're distinctly on the unsanitary side now

but if I go to town for a few hours to see a gig or meet a friend for lunch I quite often don't take a bag, just fill my pockets (keys, wallet, phone, tissues, maybe a hair tie - though my wallet is p bulky and I like a good supply of tissues so I do end up with conspicuously bulging pockets, NAGL I guess but then being me is generally NAGL so I don't really care) - I do sometimes feel a bit weird and underprepared meeting my good lunch friend who always has a massive shoulder bag and then I rock up with just 4 jeans pockets and maybe a jacket pocket too

What if when you needed a tissue, someone else had one for you and you didn't need to carry them? What if when you had a headache, you said, "Hey, does anyone have an Advil?" and someone did?

i wonder if i thought i could rely on anyone else to have the things if i would carry less stuff around.

????

After all these years, you are my people. YOU KNOW ME. You know that I love being the person who has sunblock and clean plastic cutlery and a salt packet and a highlighter and dental floss and a gluten-free snack bar in my bag. I can embrace that.

But you know what I find interesting? When I put essentials in my pockets (when my clothes have pockets which is another topic) and I go out hands-free...I feel more masculine. In a good way--a performative way--I hope it's okay to say, kind of in a butch way? I'm pretty sure I read as femme to ppl bc I'm comfortable wearing dresses and being "cute" but inside I don't feel particularly femme, and getting my wallet and my keys out of my jeans pockets makes me feel like I'm doing a whole other thing.

.I feel more masculine. In a good way--a performative way--I hope it's okay to say, kind of in a butch way? ... getting my wallet and my keys out of my jeans pockets makes me feel like I'm doing a whole other thing.

yeah, it kinda is? I mean, that's who I "was" for about a decade -- though unless it was stupid hot I would keep these things in the pocket of my coat/leather jacket -- for many years I had a chain wallet, even. It was definitely a time when I had a significant amount of gender dysphoria ... though more like confusion and other things that I'm not going to get into but ... it definitely highlighted the differences between mens and womens clothing that I think I ranted about 10 years ago on ilx, lol.

I got this oversized kelly green hoodie with thick white pullstrings and have been feeling my billie eilish. I have been wearing it all the time and just carrying an id and small changepurse in my hoodie pouch when i go out (it's cold here). I love it, you can't even tell if I am wearing a bra or not so I don't.

lol

“Think twice about everything you want to put in your bag,” said Ben Nickel-D’Andrea, who writes about flying first-class with his husband, Jon Nickel-D’Andrea, at No Mas Coach!, part of the BoardingArea blogger network. The jet-setting couple once flew to Morocco for nine days with only carry-on bags and backpacks. “Fully get rid of the ‘just in case I need it’ category,” he said. “If and when you need it, you can buy it.”

Well sure. I went to Portugal for 8 days with a carry-on suitcase and a backpack too, including a lot of food. Where's MY New York Times article?

https://www.nytimes.com/guides/travel/how-to-pack-a-suitcase?fallback=0&recId=1OT7TIFF6lFeFhlAZU5uWU6kkgI&locked=0&geoContinent=NA&geoRegion=NY&recAlloc=home-desks&geoCountry=US&blockId=home-living-vi&imp_id=227027590&action=click&module=Smarter%20Living&pgtype=Homepage&redirect=true

I had a 35L "city" backpack and my purse for 17 days in France this month. I had to do laundry once. I lost my comb halfway through though.

F had to carry home my wine though in his carry on.

It's interesting that it took 2 people to give the nyt those packing tips.

Anyone else have endometriosis??

This is a special kind of hell. I just had surgery to get it scraped off and it was on my lungs. They couldn't get it all.

That Cut piece is so weird, like, is this an American thing, that men carry nothing?

In London, especially on public transport, the bags of men are a constant nuisance. A few briefcases (briefcases have evolved to have a strap over the shoulder these days), loads of messenger bag/record bag type things, and the ever present BACKPACK. Seriously, it's easier to count the men on London transport that do not carry bags. And yes, the bags come attached with all the baggage of masculinity and its discontents - the size thing (they're supposed to take them off their backs and put them on the floor between their legs, to drive home the point - but often they don't) - the whole thing about never, ever, ever paying attention to other people's space, and just swinging your backpack around and other people (especially anyone who doesn't look like a cis man) is expected to jump out the way and adjust themselves to the size of your enourmous backpack.

The issue is not about preparedness, the problem is entitlement. Mens bags, in London, are another way for men to take up space intended for others. (Bags sprawled out across adjacent seats at rush hour.)

What I always find weird about these thinkpieces and their resultant discussion - where someone notes A Difference between Male-Coded Behaviour and Female-Coded Behaviour (whether it's carrying bags, or language, or occupying space, or cleaning up messes) is this assumption, that because the Male-Coded Behaviour connotes Status, that the solution is for 'women' to start emmulating the male-coded behaviour?

Weirdly, the title on the tab is "If men carried purses, would they clean up?" Generally, isn't cleaning up after yourself a good thing, a sign of maturity and consideration of others?

On the piece itself, it's "Men know it's better to carry nothing". How is it better to carry nothing? If you spill your coffee, is it good to just leave it, because someone else will *always* clean up your messes, or just not give a damn about whether someone else sits in it, because being free, and unencumbered (and inconsiderate and overentitled) is ... such an amazingly good thing?

This is completely weird, how a piece about "wouldn't it be good if everyone cleaned up after themselves, not just those classed as women" gets turned around into "carrying less is good". Anyway!

Endometriosis is supposed to be the most painful thing on earth, like, worse than kidney stones.

(For a while, they thought I had it, but 'luckily' it was 'just' fibroids.)

I'm sorry, that sounds really unpleasant and shit.