Which artists legacies have improved/worsened during the 2010s?

sonic youth has 1.15 million monthly listeners on spotify
pavement has 1.05 million monthly listeners on spotify

I’m not sure how many young indie fans really get excited about a fairytale couple in their 50s.

this isn't the New Jersey thread, the status of an artist's legacy and cultural cache is more than data

xp you'd be surprised! I was one and so were many of my friends... they were, erm, idols. Crucial to remember how revered they were as curators and as a gateway band... now everyone (rightly) views Thurston as a joke instead of a sage

Your awareness is not proof of anything regarding a culture wide shift, teenagers are not going to give a single shit about Kim and Thurston’s split but rather they’re just not going to give a shit about any noise rock indie band that hasn’t put out new music in many years regardless of the inside baseball about how it ended!

Thurston’s a dork but even if he was cool dad Thurston still no one would care

I’m not sure how many young indie fans really get excited about a fairytale couple in their 50s.

― Siegbran, Friday, July 12, 2019 2:49 PM (thirteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

The SY fanbase should've instantly shifted over to Yo La Tengo if this was the case.

A lot of these examples are situations where the artist in question was young in the 2000s and just got old in the 2010s and their youth was a large part of their initial appeal, imo-- Devendra Banhart was once-exciting because he was 19-22 when he had that initial blush of fame. Fleet Foxes, Conor Oberst, a lot of that stuff was popular because the participants were young, and they're just not any more, so it's not as interesting or popular.

What is more interesting to me is seeing certain acts who are creeping toward 40 or are well past it and found greater success in the 2010s. Tegan And Sara were the first to spring to mind, and I realized that a lot of queer women (or queer catnip women, i.e. Tori) feel more popular now than they did in the 2000s, which is cool and nice. Conversely, I think gay men (Rufus, Patrick Wolf, The Magnetic Fields) have had a bear market.

Some dichtomies that I feel but can't prove: Peter Gabriel down, Phil Collins up. Joni Mitchell down, Buffy Sainte-Marie up. Robert Palmer down, Lionel Richie up.

In general too I feel like contemporary classical music, especially electroacoustic music, has had an immense uptick in popularity. Kranky-style ambient, too. I attribute the rise in popularity of those musics to be a response to music's disposability and inescapability and availability-- Stockhausen feels like a treat after hearing CRJ in every corner of every public place, Stars Of The Lid also, and now you can enjoy this "more obscure" music more easily so people tend to do so.

Joni Mitchell down, Buffy Sainte-Marie up.

Agree re: Buffy, but Joni's appeal/profile never seemed to lag throughout the '00s-'10s.

Robert Palmer down, Lionel Richie up.

While true, also a little unfair, as Palmer is no longer around.

Conversely, I think gay men (Rufus, Patrick Wolf, The Magnetic Fields) have had a bear market.

nice one

I'm a little baffled by the thought process involved in which an artist's aesthetic contributions, both in terms of their own output and in championing the works in others, is somehow entirely negated by their cheating on their spouse. infidelity and divorce are very common.

xp to Tarfumes, ya, at first I was gonna say "Human League". And it's not really true of Palmer, either, I think he's becoming kind of hipster, DJs play his deep cuts more often now and "Johnny And Mary" is in high rotation in my purview. (But not like "All Night Long" which I think I've heard every day for the last three years.)

Joni Mitchell down, Buffy Sainte-Marie up.

lol what

next you'll be telling me Charlie Pride is a hipster darling

Chris Brown. Way down from early 2009, slightly up from late 2009.

I'm a little baffled by the thought process involved in which an artist's aesthetic contributions, both in terms of their own output and in championing the works in others, is somehow entirely negated by their cheating on their spouse. infidelity and divorce are very common.

Kim Gordon is iconic though, and their relationship was central to that band's appeal, in my view.

A genre of music that hugely declined over the past 10 years and I'm sad about it, frankly, is not freak-folk specifically but the adjacent stuff that predated it (Current 93) and was alongside it (Six Organs Of Admittance, James Blackshaw). I'm sad about that! I was really upset when James Blackshaw effectively said "can't support myself with this anymore, bye"

In general too I feel like contemporary classical music, especially electroacoustic music, has had an immense uptick in popularity.

Can't say I've noticed this at all (quite the opposite, really), unless we're talking about the Boomkat school. Major classical labels are less likely than ever to release music by 'difficult' living composers. EA is a different matter entirely.

I think Current 93's stock is probably higher now than ever? Fairly high profile collaborators seem to be lining up to work with him at least.

infidelity and divorce are very common.

Well that’s the thing, right? That they seemed to have worked out a happy existence, with a band that evolved and experimented into middle age, and supported and served as a role model for younger acts, and then it all collapsed because of something as boring as infidelity. It’s kind of disillusioning for people who looked to them as an example of How To Make It Work. I don’t think it nullifies their music, but it does affect how a lot of people think of the band as a whole.

Can't say I've noticed this at all (quite the opposite, really), unless we're talking about the Boomkat school. Major classical labels are less likely than ever to release music by 'difficult' living composers. EA is a different matter entirely.

I think my terminology was not particularly specific. It seems to me that 20th c. classical music, including EA, is more popular now than it was 2000-2010.

Regarding Boomkat stuff (or, more specifically, Erased Tapes), they seem to run the show these days, but that's more in line with Kranky's popularity-- people's ears are tired and they want featureless music

Regarding Beyonce, she may have an increasing critical rep, but commercially her last album was a bit of a flop. Perhaps because it wss on Tidal only.

It seems to me that 20th c. classical music, including EA, is more popular now than it was 2000-2010.

My counter-(non-)evidence is equally anecdotal but I certainly hope you're right!

Your awareness is not proof of anything regarding a culture wide shift, teenagers are not going to give a single shit about Kim and Thurston’s split but rather they’re just not going to give a shit about any noise rock indie band that hasn’t put out new music in many years regardless of the inside baseball about how it ended!

― omar little, Friday, July 12, 2019 2:58 PM (twenty-seven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Pavement have been inactive for longer, and Thurston and Kim's split was far from inside baseball, it was widely reported and his reputation took a major hit bc of it

Joni's been having a quiet moment for awhile now...I think they hand out 180 gram copies of Blue out to women at freshman orientation now.

Widely reported at the time but inside baseball now I mean if any young people don’t care about sonic youth it’s not because of that, it’s due to the natural decline of a band from a previous generation. I know people who were disappointed but they were longtime fans. If SY was still making music they’d be more a thing, the affair issue caused the breakup, but the affair isn’t why the next gen doesn’t care. It’s just the way of things.

xpost to ... Geir! I dunno, it was the third highest selling album of 2016, behind Drake and Adele but ahead of Rihanna, 1.5 million in the US. That's pretty good. No big hit singles, though, which definitely has something to do with its streaming exclusivity, but its cultural impact - album and video album and singles and Coachella appearance - were pretty big.

I don’t know any longtime SY fans who abandoned them per se it was more just a general disgust at Thurston for causing the end of the band. Personally I was also disappointed but the band itself stands on its own with the romanticizing of the perfect couple. It’s a shame they couldn’t keep it going but they’re not key partiers like Fleetwood Mac idk.

I thought they'd come to the end of their mega 10-album major label contract and were probably winding it down anyway?

*without the romanticizing (I just didn’t know enough about them to care about that even when they were together, I think for a good decade or so after I started listening to them I wasn’t aware they were together)

*without the romanticizing (I just didn’t know enough about them to care about that even when they were together, I think for a good decade or so after I started listening to them I wasn’t aware they were together)

what about Pavement? Neutral Milk Hotel? these bands have regenerating fanbases despite remaining creatively inactive - SY's cultural cache has diminished because of the hit that Thurston's reputation took. he was an elder statesmen in the 00s, now he's widely seen as an asshole husband w/ zero credibility. Kim's book brought the story back into the news in 2014.

Pavement and NMH are a) from a younger generation than sonic youth, b) make music that doesn’t sound anything like sonic youth

I think SY had already done a pretty good job whittling down its crossover audience (as such) by the time they broke up. Daydream Nation and Goo have sold something like 170k. Dirty and Experimental Jet Set sold 300+. Washing Machine was half that, everything else a half further, around 60k.

I just don’t think their rep took a hit larger than the one that would have naturally occurred due to retirement and tbh SY is musically a much more difficult sell to people anyway as far as a band to listen to, they’re not Pavement or NMH (and yet still they have more monthly Spotify listeners than either).

How does REM do on Spotify?

SY is musically a much more difficult sell to people anyway as far as a band to listen to, they’re not Pavement or NMH

I recognize that I'm not a representative sample but SY have about a half dozen albums I love, I've listened to Neutral Milk Hotel exactly once, and I wouldn't make it through a whole Pavement song without a gun at my head.

"SY is musically a much more difficult sell to people anyway as far as a band to listen to"

yes, agree with this, even though they were my favorite band for ~20 years

xp

Xp perhaps someone who reviews experimental music and jazz for publications isn’t exactly the listener we’re discussing here

I remember 10+ years ago in Barcelona there was a contagious worship for Rockabilly fashion and Morrissey and french electro stuff like Justice. None of those aged well.

I stand corrected.

Sebastian, Justice, Uffie and the like have taken a nosedive in recent times.

ha ha, that was a general comment, not solely at your post

pretty sure the decline in Uffie's legacy happened in November 2006 tho

Uffie was in a relationship with Feadz and that’s the only reason why she got mildly relevant in the first place. The music on her first eps were very competent for the scene but as soon as she started performing them live (quite awfully) it was obvious she had no talent and got cancelled. Didn’t seem to affect Justice as quickly and they were also pretty mediocre performers... I think they even got caught on a festival with their gear not even connected iirc.

My fingers crossed for booming Legendary Pink Dots, Nits, Shelleyan Orphan, Associates and Rasputina threads at the end of next decade.

Don't hear as much Beefheart love as I used to.

And pray for Laura Nyro too!

I predict a considerable drop in autotune particularly in rap music. Autotune will be vaulted as a 10’s aesthetic.

Also trap beats are out. Trip hop/r&b beats are in.

I feel like Boredoms are not talked about as much now

With how perfect and sterile most pop/electronic/hip hop production has sounded this decade, I predict the next will try to make it sound “more imperfect”. So yeah, no autotune, use of live instruments instead of synthesized ones and J Dilla’s stock will rise like it did in the early 00’s.

Boredoms haven't released anything in a decade, so I guess out of sight out of mind.

oh wait here’s a really good one: amanda palmer/the dresden dolls

P4k gave FOUR good to glowing reviews of these dorks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sO5APfKnR50

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4gPZPKJc0s

8.2 for this steampunk horseshit