I think Hootie and the Blowfish were mentioned tangentially but there was recently a Jon Caramanica piece in the NY Times saying they were due for a reassessment.
I work at a ticket vendor and we've had a lot of orders for their tour — yesterday someone dropped $900 to see them. Ten years ago I'd have thought that by now, at best, they'd be doing some nostalgia tour with Deep Blue Something and Blessid Union of Souls at a casino. Must be Rucker's solo career?
― blatherskite, Wednesday, 10 July 2019 20:08 (four years ago) link
xxp Are you referring solely to the onstage assault in NYC in 1998, or other things I'm not aware of?
― stan by me (morrisp), Wednesday, 10 July 2019 20:10 (four years ago) link
c'mon dude I'm one of the biggest Fall fans here and I am in total agreement with sic's assessment here
read Brix's autobio for more awful details
― sleeve, Wednesday, 10 July 2019 20:11 (four years ago) link
I haven't read it, that's why I'm asking. I'm aware he could be a "bully" at times, and I know about the 1998 incident, but I've never heard of "consistently dangerous work conditions" or spousal abuse.
― stan by me (morrisp), Wednesday, 10 July 2019 20:14 (four years ago) link
Brix herself didn't seem to find him "irredeemable": https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/the-falls-brix-smith-mark-e-smith-defied-convention-and-definition-202911/
― stan by me (morrisp), Wednesday, 10 July 2019 20:16 (four years ago) link
the spousal abuse is well known and was touched on in most obituaries. to be more clear: he just generally was known to be physically violent to people around him including spouses, friends and bandmates
i don't necess agree this makes him irredeemable but quite an unsympathetic character in many ways clearly
― bookmarkflaglink (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, 10 July 2019 20:17 (four years ago) link
Absolute dogshit opinion
― space invaders are smokin penises!!!! (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, July 10, 2019 2:20 PM (ten minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
Going to argue “I liked korn when they were underground” abt a band that thrived mallcore era is actually the dogshit opinion
― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Wednesday, July 10, 2019 3:33 PM (forty-four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
They had a platinum record when Carson Daly was still a KROQ DJ, dogg
― space invaders are smokin penises!!!! (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 10 July 2019 20:23 (four years ago) link
xpI skimmed the below obits; none seem to detail abuse beyond the 1998 arrest. If that's what the assessment hinges on, then fair enough, but that doesn't seem to be what you're saying. I agree he's not the most sympathetic character, but "very nearly irredeemable as a human being" is quite an assessment.
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2018/jan/24/mark-e-smith-obituaryhttps://www.nme.com/blogs/nme-blogs/mark-e-smith-obituary-the-fall-2227837https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/mark-e-smith-prolific-singer-of-post-punk-group-the-fall-dead-at-60-201853/https://pitchfork.com/news/the-falls-mark-e-smith-dead-at-60/https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/25/obituaries/mark-e-smith-of-the-fall-dies.html
― stan by me (morrisp), Wednesday, 10 July 2019 20:31 (four years ago) link
In my world of young people (ie ppl at the basketball courts), Tupac is one of the only pre-2000 rappers they fuck with. I also have heard Redman & WuTang come up on their playlists.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Wednesday, 10 July 2019 20:33 (four years ago) link
xp. hmm, generally surprises me that they shied away from it so much in the obits. there were definitely more critical pieces around after his death.
― bookmarkflaglink (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, 10 July 2019 20:35 (four years ago) link
is Mark E Smith less redeemable than, say, John Lennon
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 10 July 2019 20:39 (four years ago) link
Or Lou Reed.
― Orpheus Knutt (Tom D.), Wednesday, 10 July 2019 20:41 (four years ago) link
yes imo, all squarely in the "almost irredeemable" category with emphasis on the "almost"
― sleeve, Wednesday, 10 July 2019 20:41 (four years ago) link
Jim - have you read Steve Hanley's book?
― stan by me (morrisp), Wednesday, 10 July 2019 20:42 (four years ago) link
Or GG Allin.
2xp
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 10 July 2019 20:42 (four years ago) link
i like how I'm the one being asked to defend calling him irredeemable when it wasn't me who said that
― bookmarkflaglink (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, 10 July 2019 20:46 (four years ago) link
I’m not asking you to defend it (for the record!)
― stan by me (morrisp), Wednesday, 10 July 2019 20:47 (four years ago) link
(“One more time for the record...”)
― stan by me (morrisp), Wednesday, 10 July 2019 20:49 (four years ago) link
he infamously treated everyone under him (bandmates, sound engineers, roadies, etc.) like dogshit, not only being physically abusive but also prone to firing guys on a whim and leaving them stranded thousands of miles from home. I remember one ex-bandmate talking about lasting psychological damage, how Smith really did convince you that you weren't good enough to work in the music biz, and I suspect there were many others. obviously none of that changes the fact that he was brilliant himself and influenced a lot of great stuff...but yeah...as a human being...
― frogbs, Wednesday, 10 July 2019 21:02 (four years ago) link
exactly, see also:
https://www.amazon.com/Fallen-Life-Britains-Insane-Group/dp/1847671446
― sleeve, Wednesday, 10 July 2019 21:05 (four years ago) link
Beastie Boys definitely an example of even death not able to stop the critical decline.
? idk anybody that's revised their opinion downward of their classic era. that Beastie Boys Book seemed to do pretty well.
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 10 July 2019 21:12 (four years ago) link
Yeah I thought that the Beasties were universally loved now
― change display name (Jordan), Wednesday, 10 July 2019 21:16 (four years ago) link
beastie boys are loved but are they "relevant" in 2019?
― bookmarkflaglink (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, 10 July 2019 21:18 (four years ago) link
nothing is relevant
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 10 July 2019 21:18 (four years ago) link
^^^^ speaking as someone deeply unaware of current trends I support this premise
― the public eating of beans (Sparkle Motion), Wednesday, 10 July 2019 21:19 (four years ago) link
well they refuse to go on without Yauch and won't license out any of their music out so how 'relevant' can it they be now really
sure their influence has diminished in the last couple decades but most of that shouty/quirky rap stuff sucked anyway
― frogbs, Wednesday, 10 July 2019 21:21 (four years ago) link
current trends = also not relevant
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 10 July 2019 21:23 (four years ago) link
well using a sui generis definition of relevant you've just made up sure.
beastie boys right now feel like the andrew sisters would've felt to someone during the summer of love. sure they're famous and a beloved act for people of a certain vintage, but do they mean anything to mainstream pop (youth) culture? no
― bookmarkflaglink (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, 10 July 2019 21:24 (four years ago) link
i mean this stuff isn't just nostalgia-popular its actively Cool for zoomers & young millennials― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Wednesday, July 10, 2019
― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Wednesday, July 10, 2019
In Scotland it was certainly all the zoomers that were into nu-metal.
― Thus Spoke Darraghustra (Oor Neechy), Wednesday, 10 July 2019 21:30 (four years ago) link
there is no such thing as mainstream pop (youth) culture
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 10 July 2019 21:32 (four years ago) link
everything is just a niche now, capable of being completely cordoned off from other niches. some niches are larger than others, but none has a claim to being monolithic.
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 10 July 2019 21:38 (four years ago) link
^not a youth
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Wednesday, 10 July 2019 21:48 (four years ago) link
https://uproxx.files.wordpress.com/2019/02/drake.jpg?quality=100&w=650
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 10 July 2019 21:49 (four years ago) link
https://uproxx.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/post-malone-2.jpg?quality=100&w=650
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 10 July 2019 21:50 (four years ago) link
I am around a lot of youths
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 10 July 2019 21:51 (four years ago) link
world of young ppl etc
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 10 July 2019 21:52 (four years ago) link
lol fair enough
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Wednesday, 10 July 2019 21:53 (four years ago) link
if there's a gap in my youth knowledge it's the 18-21 demo, but I can claim a fair amount of exposure to teens/tweens and fresh-out-of-college folks
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 10 July 2019 21:59 (four years ago) link
i got in a car for the first time w/a 24-25 yr old guy i worked with and he was listening to....the Doobie Brothers! but he was home schooled in Indiana so
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 10 July 2019 22:02 (four years ago) link
henlo i teach HS seniors, drake and postie are v v popular
― hollow your fart (m bison), Wednesday, 10 July 2019 22:04 (four years ago) link
as those Spotify figures posted hours ago show, the top twenty would not shock a record company dude 20 years ago The Big Ones (Beatles, Eagles, Phil Collins, Stones, etc) remain big, deserved Big Ones have caught up (Queen), a few young turks, etc
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 10 July 2019 22:04 (four years ago) link
it's prob a topic for another thread, but my feeling is that there's much less of a monolithic youth culture now than throughout the 2nd 1/2 of the 20th century but it still exists to some degree.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Wednesday, 10 July 2019 22:06 (four years ago) link
the only monolith is that the fucking Beatles remain a touchstone
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 10 July 2019 22:07 (four years ago) link
I work at a university,most of the youngs are normie and listen to the big acts you'd expect drake etc. Compared go when I was at university there's also less specific subcultural ways of dressing
― bookmarkflaglink (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, 10 July 2019 22:08 (four years ago) link
just going from my own experience, there's a lot MORE monolithicosity between races/ethnicities/cliques. EVERYONE listens to hiphop now. Everyone listens to rnb. Everyone listens to pop. And nobody listens to rock lol. Maybe I need to hang around the few kids I see who dress like goths.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Wednesday, 10 July 2019 22:10 (four years ago) link
the 20 yr old I really liked who was in town for drug rehab had on a Nirvana shirt and that was 1st time I saw a younging wearing something like that. But when there was the goofy in-car sing along to Adele, he joined in too!
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Wednesday, 10 July 2019 22:12 (four years ago) link
the the post malone/swae lee song from spiderverse is really good
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 10 July 2019 22:16 (four years ago) link
there's also less specific subcultural ways of dressing
agree this is very striking. youth subcultures no longer subdivide along aesthetic lines, to a large extent, which is really weird to someone who grew up being able to tell what people were into based on how they dressed.
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 10 July 2019 22:17 (four years ago) link
the hegemony of streetwear
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 10 July 2019 22:18 (four years ago) link
^^ my memoir title
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 10 July 2019 22:27 (four years ago) link