Imperial Aerosol POLL: The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway by Genesis

Ugh, impossible to choose. I've internalized every note on this album.

This was the first Genesis album I heard. It took me a while to get into it because it sounded too much like '80s Genesis, which I hated, to me. I know that's not the usual reaction people have but even though the songs are different they are pretty much the same band, particularly evident on a song like "The Carpet Crawlers". Plus, even in their prog days the biggest strength Genesis had was their melodic sense, their ability to write pop songs. So I like this because there aren't any ten minute epics on it. There's "In The Cage", which is great. I don't have the words for it but there's a sense in which the way the melodies are used gives a sense of zooming in and out of the situation. And then there's "The Colony of Slippermen", which is not great, but which has a fantastic castration sound effect which I always assume was one of Eno's contributions.

But I also like "The Waiting Room", which is just them doing some oppressive Crimson-style jamming. There's some great rehearsal tapes from Headley Grange where they just go all out for twenty minutes on it, and even though Genesis don't have a reputation as improvisers, in fact I can't think of a single instance other than this song of them improvising, it's fantastic. Live it's good too, there's a bunch of fantastic OAM recordings from the Lamb tour that have surfaced. The nine minute recording from Gronigen is pretty sweet.

The only song I don't like, really, is "Chamber of 32 Doors", which I flat out fucking hate. It's the lyrics. I know how "anti-cosmopolitanism" plays out in practice and I have no patience with songs extolling the virtues of simple country folk.

The rest of the lyrics, though, I love. No, they don't tell a coherent story, but Gabriel's stuff tends to have this deep psychological resonance. I've written about this elsewhere, but it's a very relatable album from a genderqueer perspective.

Anyway, not voting right now, will have to think on it.

Forgot about Back In NYC, probably due to taking a few years to really appreciate it. I love the fact it is primarily written by the same man who wrote The Living Years

Going to have to stick up for the second disc too, I honestly love how the first is kind of perfect and the second seemingly meanders around with full on creepiness and menace, leading nowhere you could possibly expect it to (i.e. a Supper's Ready-esque climax)

anything on disc 1 and about half of disc 2

the most disappointing third act of any prog album

Not agreeing with this at all - I adore side 2 even more so than side 1. It works especially well as an entire run, I do find it hard to pick out single tracks. Obvious contenders would be the Lamia or Colony of Slippermen.
But I think I'll vote for Anyway. It's a huge personal favourite and I feel it's a bit of a hidden gem which will probably not get so many other votes, if any at all.

just giving this a relisten, struck by how much the title song sounds like something off who's next

Anyway is definitely under-appreciated, I think it's an early song they resurrected. Or was that Counting Out Time? Maybe both. I think there's also a few bits from this early 20-minute epic they wrote and never recorded, but spent the next decade cannibalising for various tracks.

Went for Fly On The Windshield in the end, but I think of sides 1-3 kind of as one continuous track so difficult to pick anything out of it. Side 4 largely a waste of time imo, esp. Banks's lyrics he had to come up with cos Gabriel ran out of steam.

It took me a while to warm up to the live-with-overdubs concert on the Archive box, but as the closest they came to a proper reunion (WOMAD aside, which left out Steve), it's a fun listen. Phil's playing is nervy and Gabriel handles the old songs pretty well.

For me, it's In the Cage over the opener. And I'll take Afterglow over Carpet Crawlers.

"Back in N.Y.C."! I have not played this record (the only Genesis album I own) since high school, 40+ years ago.

Not agreeing with this at all - I adore side 2 even more so than side 1. It works especially well as an entire run, I do find it hard to pick out single tracks. Obvious contenders would be the Lamia or Colony of Slippermen.
But I think I'll vote for Anyway. It's a huge personal favourite and I feel it's a bit of a hidden gem which will probably not get so many other votes, if any at all.

― Valentijn, Monday, July 8, 2019 10:26 AM (forty-seven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

It's after "The Lamia" that the album becomes a slog for me (and I love "Anyway," too). "Slippermen" is OK I guess but the rest of the album, jeez, talk about going out with a whimper. And the narrative becomes especially disjointed toward the end. Oh, and I loathe "the Waiting Room." "Don't have a reputation as improvisers," indeed.

Voted Fly

Freeeeeeewaaaaaaaaaaaay.......boing!

I was waiting to see how you'd vote

That first half of this record is just so insanely good. Second half is kind of amorphous and not nearly as effective. I always thought "it." sounded like the intro music to some nightly news program of the era.

"Carpet Crawlers" is one of those tunes that physically skeeves me out, I love it. that little guitar tone during the "gotta get in to get out" bit feels like it hits me in the funnybone. also, that descending keyboard line is incredible...sounds like a sequencer almost

but I think I'd go with "In the Cage", the final third is just brilliant. that sustained bass drop just kills me.

I agree that this is perhaps one of the greatest prog albums ever made, even though side 4 kinda bites it (outside of "it"...vrooooooooom!!"). Always thought if you wanted to show today's modern teenager what prog was, warts & all, this would be the album you pick.

I always thought "it." sounded like the intro music to some nightly news program of the era.

Ha ha! That's accurate.

Listening now, and forgot how much I love "In The Cage". But because I started with Genesis in the 80's and worked backwards through their discography, it still sounds wrong to my ear to have Gabriel singing this tune (as opposed to Phil Collins on the "3 sides live" version).
Agree with whoever said that this album isn't as great as the 3 or 4 that came before it.

I used to watch this "Abacab" era Genesis live video, where "In the Cage" was if not played in its entirety then def. played as part of a medley. Along with songs like (or snippets of) "Afterglow," etc.

"after the big quartet trespass, nursery cryme, foxtrot and selling england by the pound this was such a big disappointment for me in the late 70s. i never understood the appeal of it."

it's a completely different sounding album than the preceding ones. It's very modern in both composition and the sound of the instruments. There's almost nothing pastoral on here. Parts of it sound more like Nadir's Big Chance than any previous Genesis albums. Trick of the Tail was very much a regression from this sound (though I love it too). I don't think they really started treading this ground again until Duke.

Pre-Lamb was fantasy; Lamb was sci-fi.

(WOMAD aside, which left out Steve)

? dinnerboat, Monday, July 8, 2019 7:57 AM

He showed up at the end! (To do The Knife, of all things, which he isn't on the studio recording of...)

Anyway is definitely under-appreciated, I think it's an early song they resurrected. Or was that Counting Out Time? Maybe both. I think there's also a few bits from this early 20-minute epic they wrote and never recorded, but spent the next decade cannibalising for various tracks.

Side 4 largely a waste of time imo, esp. Banks's lyrics he had to come up with cos Gabriel ran out of steam.

? Zeuhl Idol (Matt #2)

It's "Anyway", from the rejected soundtrack to some art-porn film from around the time of _Trespass_. Peter's lyrics are a significant improvement over the original, which is along the lines of "I am the mad mad scientist". And yeah, "Lilywhite Lilith", as well as bits of "The Colony of Slippermen", cops from a piece called "The Light" they used to play in concert in the pre-Nursery Cryme era (with Phil on vocals!)

I have sort of a fondness for "The Light Dies Down On Broadway", if only because the spectacle of Tony Banks trying to do a recap of the previous hour and change, as if any of it made the slightest bit of goddamn sense whatsoever, at a point where there's only three more goddamn songs left on the album anyway, is like getting Chris Chibnall to do a recap of one of Moffat's seasons of Who.

Very rare to find a double concept album that doesn't fall to bits in the back half. You get side 3, where they randomly decided to stick all the guitar solos - aside from that Hackett is mostly doubling Banks, to the point where you can't even tell he showed up for the record, particularly when he's doing that tapping stuff.

I don't know if Peter's lyrics really let it down. Yeah, there's clunkers, but the entirety of "Broadway Melody of 1974" is just Gabriel doing a list song like he's Roger Waters, which doesn't keep it from being a stone fucking classic (funnily enough one of the few interviews with Waters from the mid '70s he spends most of the time slagging off Genesis in some obscure beef). I guess they don't mesh with the music, but I just don't feel like "The Lamia" or "The Colony of Slippermen" are nearly as strong musically as "In the Cage" or "Back in NYC" - a gem like "Anyway", which isn't enough to anchor a side, is just out there unsupported. Then you get weird pseudo-ambient Eno wannabes like "Silent Sorrow in Empty Boats" (pretty sure that's not actually Eno), which is lovely and I might actually vote for it just to be contrarian but doesn't mesh or flow with anything else anywhere, Banks doing a mega-squiggly synth solo on "Riding the Scree"... I mean it's still better than pretty much anything on "Tales" (and Genesis knew it - read the interviews of the time and they're going out of their way make it clear that _their_ obscure double concept album is nothing like Yes's recent disaster).

Listening now, and forgot how much I love "In The Cage". But because I started with Genesis in the 80's and worked backwards through their discography, it still sounds wrong to my ear to have Gabriel singing this tune (as opposed to Phil Collins on the "3 sides live" version)

I feel the same way about Carpet Crawlers, since I got to know and love the Phil-sung version on Seconds Out long before I heard the studio version with Gabriel. I still think the song suits Phil's voice better. In The Cage, though, suits Gabriel's vocals far better I think.

Lots of contenders. Going for "The Lamia" in the long run. Tony is the most underrated member of Genesis.

"
It's "Anyway", from the rejected soundtrack to some art-porn film from around the time of _Trespass_"

this is actually from the "Jackson Tapes" which was released a few years ago with the albums on a cd of outtakes in a box set.

"A BBC television producer heard about Genesis in late 1969 when they were based in the cottage owned by Richard Macphail's parents. He came down to see them and thought they might be the sort of group he was looking for who could write some music for a TV programme about artist Mick Jackson and his painting. The band put together 4 tracks and then went into a BBC studio on 9th January 1970 to record them. The resulting mono tape featured 15 minutes of music. One interesting thing is that Paul Samwell-Smith (of Yardbirds fame) did the production on this recording.

A copy of the master tape together with some rapidly hand-written notes describing the ideas for the proposed programme were put together to give to a commissioning editor who would approve it. It's this copy tape (and the notes) that came to light at the end of 2001 and which were initially offered for sale via auction. No-one knows where the actual master tape of the session is or indeed if it still exists.

The four tracks recorded during the session were referred to in the notes as relating to themes of Provocation, Frustration, Manipulation and Resignation although these are not the titles of the tracks that the band gave them. These tracks contain some very interesting hints of things to come:

- Provocation includes a theme from Fountain of Salmacis plus much of what ended up in Looking For Someone (Ant remembers that the end of Looking For Someone as we know it from the version on Trespass developed here).

- Frustration is an early version of Anyway from The Lamb but with totally different lyrics.

- Manipulation is a version of F Sharp that we now know from Ant's Archive Collection (and is an early version of what became ‘Musical Box’) although this is more fully arranged with Tony Banks adding an organ part to Ant & Mike's 12-strings.

- Resignation includes parts of a track from that period called Peace which Genesis never used anywhere else."

(copied from elsewhere on the internet)

Eno's only involvement is treating the vocals on "Grand Parade", right? he might as well not even be credited.

Pretty much there, maybe Counting Out Time or Cuckoo Cocoon, places with treated vox.

Eno apparently provided a lot of "Silent Sorrow in Empty Boats".

The Lamb remains one of my top 3 greatest albums of all time. Even the tracks at the end of disc 2, which sound like an amalgamation of each other, have a chill vibe that complements the rest of the album.

For me there are quite a few tracks that top 'In The Cage' so I will be sad if it wins the poll. 'In The Cage' is the only track on this double album where I can picture people bobbing their heads to a high tempo; coincidentally, upbeat folk might unite their vote on that one.

Also it might suck up votes from 80's Genesis lovers.

I need to keep telling myself that I shouldn't care about other people's opinions on this album.

And yeah, "Lilywhite Lilith", as well as bits of "The Colony of Slippermen", cops from a piece called "The Light" they used to play in concert in the pre-Nursery Cryme era (with Phil on vocals!)

Any idea where I could learn more about this? (As you can imagine the title of “The Light” on its own kind of trips up google w/r/t things Genesis have put out containing that phrase)

There's "In The Cage", which is great. I don't have the words for it but there's a sense in which the way the melodies are used gives a sense of zooming in and out of the situation.

Yeah, the moment(s) in "In the Cage" where it abruptly shifts from minor to major ("If I keep self control...") have this exhilarating change-of-perspective effect.

Pre-Lamb was fantasy; Lamb was sci-fi.

― dinnerboat, Monday, July 8, 2019 3:28 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

This pretty much sums it up musically and lyrically. On the Lamb, all the knights-and-ladies-and-dragons-and-lawnmowers imagery is replaced with chromed-out urban surrealism and contemporary pop culture references.

Also some heavy grooves!

I've written about this elsewhere, but it's a very relatable album from a genderqueer perspective.

Would love to read this if you have a link.

The fact that this album deals with sexuality at all sets it apart from most prog rock, and the way it progresses from the juvenile humor of "Counting Out Time" to the grotesque sexual body horror of "The Lamia" and "Colony of Slippermen" is fascinating.

One of my favourite moments on the album is halfway through "In the Cage" with fuzz bass and toms under the woozy harmonies on "and he looks at me without a sound," which is clearly cribbing from Tomorrow Never Knows.

Dug out the CD today to re-read Gabriel's story in the liner notes, now my head kinda hurts.

i voted for "waiting room" bc it's the most amazing shit ever when you're really stoned but now i'm thinking i should've gone for "slippermen"

i cannot believe people itt do not like "slippermen"

keep your fingers out of my eye

Man I love Slippermen. "Me? ... Like you? ... like that??"

"Don't delay, dock the dick!"

It's a yellow plastic... ~~shoobedoobe~~

Outrageous Google Doc with the story and links and photos, fan art etc:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ITGpu-3WK7bTSTLxefdQGC0O6renCkka7LH4cKkxHwU/edit#

Slippermen is so catchy and fun. At some point for me it went from being mildly embarrassing to endearingly ridiculous.

Just realised that I have 5.1 mixes of all the Genesis rekkids, wish I had an A/V amp to listen to The Lamb in surround! Can anyone report on that?

That cool little interlude connecting "In the Cage" and "Grand Parade" deserves a vote.

Oh yeah I love that part. Also the flute solos in "Cuckoo Cocoon" are so gorgeous.

That google doc is bonkers.

Anyone else rep for the live version on the Archive 1967–75 box set? It sounds great to me, and the fact that Gabriel's vocals and Hackett's guitar are re-recorded doesn't bother me in the slightest.

The overdubs bugged me at first but now I enjoy it as an ersatz reunion.

I saw The Musical Box do this album, with the original costumes and slides. It was awesome.

I have not played this record (the only Genesis album I own) since high school, 40+ years ago.

Likewise, although I used to own several more that went away in my great punk rock prog purge. Listening today, even on earbuds at work, the remastered cd sound is wonderful. I'm amazed how many of the lyrics and little musical details I remember; I must have played it a lot more at the time than I thought. I do think the second half trails off, I know I played the first LP way more than the 2nd.

Back then I would have voted "Broadway Melody," I lived for lyrics like "smell of peach blossom and bitter almonde..." Now, I'm not so sure.

They discuss it in the video; they were mixing 24 hours a day, with different band members supervising in shifts, each in charge of mixing one of the LP sides. Banks describes coming in at the start of his shift and finding that the previous team had mixed "IT" without including the guitar track.

I don't think anyone really likes Waiting Room, besides Brad when he's stoned

the 2nd album is for sure weaker, though tbf if it wasn't this would probably be the greatest album ever made

revisited this for the first time since....uh this poll started I guess. starting to come around to the idea that the first record kind of needs the second. even though the first record is insane on its own. I know the band has talked about how they were kind of rushed at the end, does anyone know why it's so long then? it's over an hour and a half, which even for a double is really long. I actually kinda like the stuff that I suspect was written on the fly though. "Riding the Scree" for instance I think really bottles up the way Banks writes his stuff. anyway the thing I think really stands out now that I'm really listening is the drumming. Collins is such a beast on this, even when his drums are buried he's going nuts - the way he plays the hi-hats on "Carpet Crawlers" almost sounds like a glitched out drum machine.

The drumming at the end of "The Lamia" finally being audible was what stood out for me about the remix.

The Lamb being a conscious effort to move from the pastoral to something more gritty and urban, and there being (pre-)punk vibes in the air.

lol. urban, definitely. theater district, to be more precise. album title otm, it's like 'street punk: the musical'

i like the album tbc, it's super weird and gets awkward and uncomfortable but more surreal than gritty, really.

xxp - which remix is this? I have a CD from 2004 or thereabouts, plus an original vinyl, unfortunately it's kind of beat up which sucks because there are so many quiet parts. I am looking to upgrade so if there's a nice remaster out there I'm definitely interested.

The 2008 remix.

To hear Phil's full power listen to the Shrine show from Archives 2 box. And he was singing the WHOLE time. Phil was an absolute monster during thing period.

Also PG has fully copped to stealing the whole story from El Topo.

spending some time with this tonight, the tension between old and nu Genesis on the album feels more palpable to me than it used to -- the pastoralisms and Canturbury-jazz moods (Hairless Heart, In the Cage) feel here they're a foil for the more accessible place PG's that's calling to PG's heart & muse (the title track, Back in NYC, Counting Out Time). But within a few years three out of the four remaining will feel the same pull toward more trad song structure, toward being heard. I find this tension more irritating than satisfying in the album as a whole -- if there were a third impulse to complicate things it might not feel, to me, like this is a band who just can't agree on what they're trying to do. still, when I stop thinking about all that and just sink into it -- such good sounds, a really good flow. I like the proggier bits better generally but when Gabriel finds his pocket, when he plucks a melody he can really bite into, it's glorious.

"counting out time" playing in the room as I type...fuck I loved this song so much when I was a kid, "unexpected dis-stress from my mistress" felt like the coolest damn delivery and the chord sequence was so exactly my thing,

please strikthrough that first "PG's" as you read if you read tyvm.

This album was playing the other day at a record store while i was browsing, and I was really surprised by how good it sounded. I had the album as a kid (Genesis was the first band I did a full back catalogue deep-dive on), and I honestly didn't think much of it then. But hearing it on a proper sound system, the production and the songwriting were both a lot better than I remembered. And yeah, "Counting Out Time" was the one that really jumped out.

yeah it's such a track, and it also sounds to me like PG saying "I want to make pop songs. I like Motown and I wanna make pop songs, guys" and the guys going "...but prog, right?"

The album ultimately does kind of (figuratively and literally) lose the plot, but the first half and smatterings of the second remain pretty rad. It's definitely transitional in discography context, but still cool and full of surprises. And subtle Enosification.

the good bits of "Counting Out Time" are great it's true but i feel like there's a bit of cheesiness - i don't hate that but i hear it - in the delivery, arrangement? not sure what. the opening basically. it's much better when it hits stride

the title track embraces the R'n'B soul vibe more fully maybe

wait i thought the music was written by all the others and PG just added lyrics?

that's the story but idk

also my understanding is that Phil at least had always been an R'n'B fan

wait i thought the music was written by all the others and PG just added lyrics?

I think that's mostly true, but "Counting Out Time" was one of Peter's songs, according to Tony (here).

Tony: "It's all about... early sexual experiences, trying to do it by the book." *embarrassed shrug*

Phil and Peter are both longtime soul/r&b fans, as their solo stuff would evince (if not always enforce).

kinda difficult to figure out what music PG actually wrote for the band, obviously he gets a lot of songwriting credits for the lyrics/conceptual stuff but none of his solo material sounds a thing like Genesis. outside of like the first song on his debut

Willow Farm from Supper's Ready was Gabriel's song too, he seemed to write in that jaunty piano-led style in his early days. Personally I could do without Counting Out Time and most of side 4. As I said on the Duke thread, remove about 15 minutes from most of the 70s-era Genesis albums and you have a better album.

Excuse Me from his first album is another of the Flanders & Swann numbers

Iirc Yes would always say their songs kept getting longer because everyone kept bringing in bits and pieces they didn't want cut.

xps I think Harold the Barrel was all PG too.

and yet their albums are pretty economical! outside of Tales of course. but I never really felt there was a lot of noodling or unnecessary bits on them, whereas yea every Genesis album from like 1971-1981 feels like it could've been trimmed

its kind of rough out there for people who collect prog vinyl, you got King Crimson albums that are full of dead quiet parts so you need clean vinyl, and Genesis stuffs 25-28 minutes on a side so you have to crank it meaning the surface noise is often a bit more pronounced. and you need a good stylus as well. but Yes doesn't have those problems :)

I think Harold the Barrel was all PG too.

lol my favorite genesis tune bar none

Love how Gabriel pronounces "Manhattan" like "man had honor" on the title track

yeah, I love that too, it's like, for just a moment, he's Mark E Smith

I’ve always been surprised that Back in NYC was not totally written by PG.

echoes of the broadway everglades

love how everything melts here

lol i'd forgotten the silly Bonzos break in "Counting Out Time"

I’ve always been surprised that Back in NYC was not totally written by PG.

yeah it does have a bit of a Dodo/Lurker/ABCAB feel to it. I still feel like that song is very future-feeling, and that they kind of retreated from this for the rest of the decade

haha Abacab.

I would have said that the one-bass-note-on-a-Taurus-pedal in "Back in NYC" is also very Mike Rutherford, but apparently he didn't start using them until 1976.

Love how Gabriel pronounces "Manhattan" like "man had honor" on the title track

― J. Sam

wait that lyric is "manhattan"?

i have a soft spot for "counting out time"... that guitar break sounds very enossified to my ears, and the lyric, well, the only way i could think to work out sex was by numbers ("try writing the alphabet with your tongue"), and it never really worked for me. so i found that song very relatable.

I'll admit I don't know a lot about the sex habits of Puerto Rican adolescent boys in 1974 New York, but I would assume Rael would be less likely to learn about sex from a presumably non-pornographic instruction manual than an upper-middle-class UK student at an all-male boarding school in the 60s would have been. That's a failure of characterization on Gabriel's part.

*embarrassed shrug*