Ari Aster's MIDSOMMAR (2019)

Also, now that I’ve had a night to sleep on it — sound design is pretty crucial in this film. Grief and its aftereffects are portrayed visually (natch) but the underscoring of how someone can *hear* differently in its throes is something that really stands out to me all the more. Like it is an aural representation of shock and what it means to work through it — things are murky, unclear, you feel disoriented, sudden memories overwhelm you and your senses don’t ‘work.’ Again, it’s there visually to a degree but the sound design really underscores it, and arguably has both vivid moments of sudden actualization in the narrative, making itself manifest and then part of a greater whole, leading to an ending where it is absolutely central on several levels. This might be one of the strongest such efforts in terms of how grief is portrayed since Twin Peaks season 3, though instead of Lynch’s operatic dream tragedy and confusion via sound, this is somewhere where we are constantly looped back into an internal headspace projected outward. It’s very striking the more I think about it.

the length does not give me a lot of hope tbh

An edit or two wouldn't've hurt anything.

Took me a little more thought but I finally put my finger on something that helps me think about the film: two themes, maybe more implied than directly stated, are culpability and conscious guilt. This plays out to the end, but in a way where I’m not entirely sure whether the resultant ambiguity is intentional. This could just be an overread on my part, though.

Also manipulation is more obviously central as well the more I think about this. I was initially treating the cult trappings as just that but the more I think about it the more obvious it is that you have to separate the actual 'trappings' part -- the rituals, the visuals, etc. -- from what a cult is like in any form. This all still feeds into grief as the core. And I'll finally stop for now.

It's dark enough.

I am intrigued by some ppl criticizing it for being not scary/horror-y enough (not seen yet), since I rewatched The Wicker Man recently and it reminded me how just a few plot trappings and a creepy scene or two were once more than enough to earn you the tag. Now people tend to whinge about classification if it's not wall-to-wall slayings or hauntings.

Yeah this is a movie with a very slow burn, one or two incredibly grotesque scenes, and the aftermath of same.

my main point of curiosity is what this guy can do without the WMD that was Toni Collette. Don't think I can handle a Hereditary rewatch just yet but I'm unsure how much of what I loved about that movie was her or the direction.

This movie is unthinkable (and unendurable) with the casting of Florence Pugh.

without, you mean?

haven't seen her in anything so don't have any expectations.

tired: midsommar

wired: midsummer murders

yeah, without

haven't seen her in anything so don't have any expectations.

See Lady Macbeth at first opportunity.

yep

oh shit, i had forgotten about that and yes she is amazing in it. that's reassuring.

the emphasis on casting and performance as being discrete and separable from directing is....weird to me

Alfred's got his review up -- there are spoilers so only read if you've seen it or if you know you're not going to, but I think it's a very sharp read on the film, including problems that I didn't address properly (but which DJP rightly noted upthread):

https://humanizingthevacuum.wordpress.com/2019/07/03/midsommar-wants-to-be-more-than-a-horror-film/

when you’re at an elite festival but IG is down pic.twitter.com/UGzBCtGTCG

— Eric Allen Hatch (@ericallenhatch) July 3, 2019

I literally just got out of this film and one of my first thoughts was “I bet Eric Hatch is on this”

Alfred's got his review up -- there are spoilers so only read if you've seen it or if you know you're not going to, but I think it's a very sharp read on the film, including problems that I didn't address properly (but which DJP rightly noted upthread):

I finished the thread, just read DJP's remark -- yep. The racial politics are....fucked up.

The racial politics are....fucked up.

I'm not gonna get around to this movie till it's on Amazon Prime, so if answering my questions would require too much spoilage feel free to ignore me, but...is there much made of the black guy being "a black guy," or is he just seen by the villagers/cultists as "not from here" just like the other protagonists? In other words, is his role in the film to be "the black guy" or is he a real character? And if it's the latter, why is it necessary or even good for a film set in a weird European village to hew to contemporary US racial politics?

You know what, never mind.

The summary on Wikipedia doesn’t even mention which character is black.

why is it necessary or even good for a film set in a weird European village to hew to contemporary US racial politics?

I mean, the writer-director is American (along with, we can assume, the bulk of the financing) and the festival is made up, so it hardly seems out of bounds

It's also a well-known horror trope that black people in those movies largely exist to be brutally murdered in front of or in the vicinity of the Final Girl

I'm not gonna get around to this movie till it's on Amazon Prime, so if answering my questions would require too much spoilage feel free to ignore me, but...is there much made of the black guy being "a black guy," or is he just seen by the villagers/cultists as "not from here" just like the other protagonists?

SPOILER

All these things, and he's the most committed to research, the smartest, yet he must collaborate with the boyfriend-asshole.

Lots of insane stuff in this movie but IMHO the most audacious move was to visually reference the Wicker Man remake during the climax. That is some next level cinematic trolling.

Good new Haxan Cloak interview re the score:

https://thequietus.com/articles/26744-the-haxan-cloak-midsommar-ari-aster-bobby-krlic-interview

Also worth noting — when I mentioned to my partner how I thought all the constant background activity was one of the film’s best points, she immediately said it made her think of Drowning By Numbers. Lo and behold, Krlic brings up that both he and Aster bonded over a mutual Peter Greenaway love among other things.

Seeing this tonight, but another thing I find interesting about this guy's movies is that no one can seem to agree about their degree of intentionality. I saw someone on twitter argue, for instance, that the ending of this one was "funny" and "wasn't supposed to be." Meanwhile in an AVClub interview Aster says he thinks of the movie as a dark comedy and specifically cited the ending!

I’m a bit bemused at the idea of seeing this film and thinking the humour was unintentional

Ari Aster is incredible at inserting bleak humor into his films. The reveal at the start of his short The Strange Thing About the Johnsons is simultaneously the darkest and funniest sight gag I think I've ever seen.

I enjoyed this.

Spoilery question - after the boyfriend was supposedly taken to the airport, did anybody else hear a woman screaming in the scene a few minutes later?

Yeah that was clearly Connie.

Figured. Thought that was a great touch. It was unsettling.

Loooooooved this for so many reasons. Haven’t read the thread yet. Some things I liked including but not limited to :
— casting no famous ppl, yes
— Dani was perfect, the intro scenes set up her emotional state perfectly, her face!!
— in spite of some of the gruesome scenes (the cliff!!), nothing about this movie rung gross to me
— I’ve never seen a cis het male character so obviously uncomfortable in a sex scene and I appreciated that, nice change of pace

SPOILERS!

Dug this a lot, though it's definitely too long. It could have painlessly lost 20-30 minutes. I'm a big fan of the way Aster juxtaposes fussy imagery with lowbrow humor. (I did wonder how many of Poulter's lines were ADR'd in after the fact.) Pugh was of course great but I really loved Reynor in this, so convincingly loathsome in a way we all recognize, yet also touchingly pathetic throughout the final act. (It helped that I related deeply to his physical discomfort while surrounded by revelry, having recently enjoyed a nervous breakdown whilst on vacation.)

I don't really understand Alfred's objection here:

Coming after a battle with Christian about who will take credit over their shared thesis about village customs, it’s hard to know who’s exploiting whom when it’s easier to see which minority gets punished for being smart; Aster stages the scene as if Josh is getting his comeuppance.

I mean, he *is*, for blatantly disrespecting an explicit rule pretty gravely given to him a couple of scenes earlier. It's in character, too, since it makes sense that he would be driven to do a distinctly better job than Reynor's character and will take any advantage he can get. He's not punished for "being smart." I get that it plays differently given the tropes associated w/ black guys in horror movies but I don't think it's fair to say that it's staged with glee or lingering violence compared to, say, the extended daytime hillside-mallet deaths. (Also, if DJP is looking for a precise answer to his earlier question: WJH bites it in roughly the order of his billing, and the final girl isn't really involved in any fashion.)

If there's an obvious political objection to this movie, I would think it would be the use of the disfigured inbred character, which is some straight-out-of-the-70s (or earlier) shit. Though Reynor and Harper's cultural relativism/detached academic interest in the proceedings was fairly timeless.

Also, Krlic's score was cool, and way out of his Haxan Cloak wheelhouse, but I can't imagine listening to it in isolation like I sometimes do with Stetson's score for Hereditary.

I’ve never seen a cis het male character so obviously uncomfortable in a sex scene and I appreciated that, nice change of pace

this was very deliberate it seems

https://www.thewrap.com/midsommar-jack-reynor-full-frontal-nudity-ari-aster/

"If there's an obvious political objection to this movie, I would think it would be the use of the disfigured inbred character, which is some straight-out-of-the-70s (or earlier) shit."

It's weirdly never used though... except for a couple of shots and then the incest "joke".

I really liked this and it was only in the last twenty or so minutes that I was like wait how fucking long is this movie??!?! it really breezes along nicely until then. I am going to make a lot of jokes about my Swedish friends from now on too.

I knew it was long going in and I didn’t feel any drag at all even tho my screening finished up around midnight

I did wonder how many of Poulter's lines were ADR'd in after the fact.)

A lot of the dialogue had the feel of obvious adr, disembodied and too-prominent whether it’s a background character or protagonist, which is a part of the sound design Ned was talking about

I wonder if when they cast William Jackson Harper, there was any thought as to maybe poking fun at the extreme whiteness of the cult and how clearly they only go for *certain types* of outsiders for "breeding purposes." Seems like a missed opportunity for a few extra lols

For once a reason to share a Bustle link:

https://www.bustle.com/p/the-breathing-in-midsommar-serves-a-much-larger-purpose-than-just-creeping-you-out-18136430

I am so into Krlic's score for this, can't wait to see the actual film

tbh I just want to know how long it takes them to kill the black guy

― brigadier pudding (DJP), Wednesday, July 3, 2019 9:08 AM (four days ago) bookmarkflaglink

Point acknowledged. On the other hand, how about Dani and horror's "last girl" tradition?

At any rate, I would compare it to Get Out--this beautiful and elite community is in a way recruiting you, but it is very much on *their* terms. And I liked the retort to the American stereotype of the Scandinavian countries as free love with blond bombshells (of both genders).

Surprisingly didn't mind or notice the length, kept me hooked til the end, at the same time I'm also just like WHY the fuck would you ever go to a place like this or accept an invitation...

Great follow-up to Hereditary in that it was very much its own thing, didn't feel at all rushed (like Us), and the question of whether or not it's better than Hereditary never occurred to me, they're both very good. no sophomore slump at all.

I can see the black comedy angle. I gotta read more interviews with this guy.

many xps but what was the Wicker Man remake reference? the bear?

Aster is clearly a major director - I hope he does something other than horror next, just to switch it up.

I found Jack Reynor weirdly cute.

he looked like bootleg Chris Pine to me. like a Chris Pine marionette. he has very big eyes

Chris Pine + Seth Rogen

^ great elevator pitch for a remake of The Fly

Aster is clearly a major director - I hope he does something other than horror next, just to switch it up.

― flappy bird, Sunday, July 7, 2019 1:46 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

he doesn't seem to like horror very much so probably

EVER??

not even the stupidest thing about this great movie

The idea that a ritual could occur every 90 years is the stupidest thing I've encountered

I bet you hated Chrono Trigger then

would absolutely watch Ari Aster's Chrono Trigger

I know a ritual that occurs only once every 90 years YOU HAVING SEX ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

but jed_ said you're wrong

― muntjac wagner (Neanderthal),

I did?

What a bizarre gripe to have (xps to jed_)

the most nonsensical plot point of all time will always be the plot to Double Jeopardy with Ashley Judd

I mean...fucking Signs...

dicks out for Halley's Comet 2061

clearly none of you have seen the life of david gale

a film that fairly dared you to see it

oh haha, I haven't, but I read the plot summary, and....you ain't wrong.

Oh come on, the most nonsensical plot point of all time is "Jaws 4: The Revenge," in which the vengeful shark (I assume not the same shark that blew up in the first movie, though who knows) now has a psychic link to the Brodys and follows the family from New England down to the Bahamas. And then when they get there they all get wasted and have this weird pagan sex ritual.

The people or the sharks?

All of them, together.

"It's really a miracle of evolution. All this machine does is swim and eat and make little sharks, and that's all."

I worked for the sharks

I was determined to read this entire thread before commenting because I didn't want to just reiterate what others have said and also because I always think it's rude to just barge into a long thread you haven't read and just start pontificating. Which is why it took me a year to return to this thread and post something! There are some really great insights above, learned a lot from reading the whole thing. But I just re-watched and wanted to comment on a few things:

Maybe the most true-to-life depiction of the psilocybin experience I've seen on film
The whole 'I don't want to meet new people' is perfect psylocibin talk
― frame casual (dog latin), Monday, July 15, 2019 6:50 AM (one year ago) bookmarkflaglink

This is otm, and I agree that it’s the most accurate depiction of a trip I’ve seen on film. Now, I know nothing about making films, so for all I know this simulation of a drug high is to fledgling filmmakers what the “looper pedal” is to people who don’t know anything about guitar effects (“but there’s only one of her! How is she doing that?”) but I thought it was really well done.

I also thought to myself that all of them should have realized they were doomed at the antestuppa ceremony. No community would let outsiders see that, for fear of them fleeing and exposing them. You either die or you become a Horge!
― Fuck Trump, cops, and the CBP (Neanderthal), Sunday, July 21, 2019 3:58 PM (one year ago) bookmarkflaglink

Yeah, to me this was obvious. Like there’s no way any of the outsiders would be permitted to leave after witnessing what they did, which is why at some point Pelle is like “sure, you guys can totally write your thesis about this place, go nuts,” because he knew there was no way they’d live to tell about what they saw.

I also want to echo the praise of the sound design. The way sound for Dani sort of gets kind of muffled and narrowed when the elderly woman jumps rang really true to me.

My other very unusual reaction to seeing this film was that I – again, a person who knows literally zero about filmmaking – feel this compulsion to want to EDIT the damn thing. Like, I feel like if you lost, say, 30 minutes of this film by omitting or abbreviating certain scenes that either went on too long or were gratuitous or excessive, it would be a much better film. Many of you have mentioned the recurring shots of the smashed faces, and this is a great example, but I also feel like one or two shots (maybe through the crack in the door?) of the, err, fertility ritual would have sufficed. I've never had this kind of reaction to a movie before: not "this should have been edited better," but "I want to edit this into my perfect version of the film."

Anyway I think I’m ready to finally see Hereditary now

It is a better film imo

rewatched this last night. really held up.

- Christian's low-key obnoxiousness was felt much more strongly this time around. He's a true coward and there are very few scenes where he's not squirming around trying to cover his tracks, pass on blame, elide truth or just plain gaslighting Dani and his friends. Still, I don't know if he quite deserved to burn to death in a bear suit while physically drugged.

- The film never lets up, does it? Or at least for the first two-thirds. It's just relentlessly twisting and turning in terms of plot, mood and style. The opening scenes are just so intense, truly upsetting. Then we actually get to the vilage and the mood lightens for just a short while as Will Poulter does the best depiction of someone on shrooms I've ever seen. In fact I'd maintain that these are the best screen portrayals of the psychedelics I've seen on screen.

- The ending could have been shorter. By the time the denouement plays out, the film's most shocking and arreasting scenes are long gone, and whatever's left feels relatively light, almost comic (in the darkest possible way). The communal singing and groaning, the bear suit - these are entertaining ideas but they elicit a morbid chuckle unlike the opening sequence and the cliff diving scenes which definitely don't. These final scenes feel like they're tipping ever so slightly into farce or a parody of folk horror.

- That said, I think complaints of the film containing too much foreshadowing is missing the point. Yes, it's obvious how this narrative arc is going to play out, but this is very much about the ride

- Despite my complaint that the film tips into farce towards the end, save for a few of Poulter's lines I seem to remember it being a lot funnier the first time around.

- Also, but what a great cast. Flo Pugh is obviously fantastic, but everyone else (including the bit-parts) are so perfectly acted. They didn't do enough with William Jackson Harper though.

I couldn't tell you Herediatry is a better film. It's really not.

i probably just repeated a lot of what i said the first time around there lol

the sounds throughout the ending (the singing, groaning, screaming, crying) were super-intense in the theater - they didn't elicit any chuckles (from me)!

yeah, i was watching this on my beat-up TV this time around so the effect of some scenes was diminished

first time i saw it as at the cinema though

finally watching the director’s cut

this movie is so fucking amazing

Someone should tell those girls they're walkin stupid

lmao

I feel like I wast a whole genre of this movie.

Midsummer
Og Wicker Man

Yesterday I randomly remembered the scene where the kids are watching a DVD of Austin Powers and started lmfao in a hotel lobby

Someone tell those girls they're walking stupid

lol i just came here to post “somebody should tell these girls they’re walking stupid”