critic's darlings

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Urgh, I sense another Sterling Clover "but REAL people don't like them" argument coming up and I thought we were talking "critic's darlings" as in bands that could, in the eyes of the press, do no wrong and also if you dislike them you are clearly CRAZY IN THE HEAD, but apparently this is becoming some sort of weird echo of the Sterling Clover P&J thing so I'll shut up.

Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 03:39 (twenty-one years ago) link

(Wow, I was really redundant there. HEY NATE EDIT FIRST THEN POST)

Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 03:40 (twenty-one years ago) link

critic's darlings = bands who's fans are almost exclusively critics or who's love from the critics is in now way proportional to the love they get from their target demo


at one time, John Hiatt

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 03:46 (twenty-one years ago) link

for a negative review of Sleater-Kinney see Griel Marcus on One Beat

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 03:48 (twenty-one years ago) link

haha good charlotte

jess (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 03:54 (twenty-one years ago) link

(The Baxendale thing was an abortive in-joke. I know they've been savaged in the UK, although their US reviews were favorable.)

Amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 04:22 (twenty-one years ago) link

I bet Yo la Tengo is the king here. You take a band's entire fanbase & then figure out the percentage of those fans who have had at least one record review published...Yo la Tengo is untouchable.

Mark (MarkR), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 04:24 (twenty-one years ago) link

the us reviews read from the same set of talking points, derided for being "ironic" and not as good as pulp or pet shop boys.

keith (keithmcl), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 04:27 (twenty-one years ago) link

pretty much any band with former rock critics (Yo La Tengo, Magnetic Fields, Pet Shop Boys) gets love from critics. Yo La Tengo were a critic's band circa Fakebook (it's still a little insane how high that record placed in the P&J), but now - post-Painful, esp. post-I Can Hear the Heart... - not anymore, or at least not anymore than most indie-rock bands.

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 04:28 (twenty-one years ago) link

I bet Yo la Tengo is the king here. You take a band's entire fanbase & then figure out the percentage of those fans who have had at least one record review published...Yo la Tengo is untouchable.

I know a lot of critic types who hate YLT.

Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 04:29 (twenty-one years ago) link

buncha assholes!

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 04:32 (twenty-one years ago) link

wait,,,critic 'types'?

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 04:33 (twenty-one years ago) link

Yeah, critic types bad things about Yo La Tengo on their computer-machine key-boards.

Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 04:34 (twenty-one years ago) link

Miss Rosen! Nate's accusing you of using bad grammer Miss Rosen!

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 04:35 (twenty-one years ago) link

better ger yr hair did (copywritten 2001 missy elliot)

jess (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 04:39 (twenty-one years ago) link

That's it Blount, you better be waiting under the flagpole at recess!

Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 04:40 (twenty-one years ago) link

Miss Rosen! Nate's accusing you of using bad grammer Miss Rosen!

Er, no he's not!

Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 04:48 (twenty-one years ago) link

Damn it, the flagpole is occupied by a Students for Jesus prayer circle group!

Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 04:51 (twenty-one years ago) link

Pavement doesn't really fit the criteria but most fans that I've talked to really hated "Terror Twilight" although I seem to remember it getting reasonable reviews.

J-rock (Julien Sandiford), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 04:58 (twenty-one years ago) link

I don't know about Yo La Tengo -- maybe it's just that the critics have been successful, but at the point where they were serious critical darlings they had a pretty big fan base as well.

How about people like Aimee Mann (pre-Magnolia)? I tend to think "critical darling" mostly about this cadre of people who are making accessible pop music, to glowing reviews but decidedly non-pop sales. I imagine that some years ago there would have been plenty of critics claiming there's no stylistic reason Aimee Mann records shouldn't chart high, and then going on about how it's "the industry" or people's bad taste or something that's "keeping her down." (You know the type I mean, right -- the preferred middle-of-road singer-songwriters of top-level critics everywhere?)

nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 05:07 (twenty-one years ago) link

nitsuh you sound like sterling

jess (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 05:09 (twenty-one years ago) link

[rubs hands in an evil manner]

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 05:33 (twenty-one years ago) link

I tend to think "critical darling" mostly about this cadre of people who are making accessible pop music, to glowing reviews but decidedly non-pop sales.

Like Big Star?

Mark (MarkR), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 05:54 (twenty-one years ago) link

Face it. NOBODY likes Baxendale. Nobody. Except for my psychotic wifebeater ex-boyfriend, but then again, last thing I heard, he was shagging their keyboardist. Ew! I feel unclean! It was bad enough we shared a record label with them, but this! Eeeeuuuwwww!!!

kate, Tuesday, 18 February 2003 07:25 (twenty-one years ago) link

Oh but Jess, I said "top-level" critics specifically so I wouldn't! Also I like Aimee Mann.

nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 07:27 (twenty-one years ago) link

beck.
i don't mean his early stuff. but explain that last album to me? that snoozer made every critics list. they were comparing him to gordon lightfoot like it was a good thing. this was the only accurate live review i ever found ( i actually went to that show too). but maybe me and the reviewer were the only ones falling asleep, maybe everyone really did dig that stuff deep in their souls, not just cuz they paid admision and because it was beck and because the critics told them it was good. who's to say? the world is a mysterious place.

lolita corpus (lolitacorpus), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 10:09 (twenty-one years ago) link

Erik Digibeet and I like Baxendale! And we are chanting "ONE OF US" in the direction of Nabiscuh!

Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 10:13 (twenty-one years ago) link

I'm not a critic, but I happen to think the Mekons are one of the greatest bands of the past quarter century. Pere Ubu rocks too.

Jazzbo (jmcgaw), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 13:45 (twenty-one years ago) link

Yeah, the Mekons have caught on in the past few years. But there was a time...

Kenan Hebert (kenan), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 15:43 (twenty-one years ago) link

Jerry, I only just got some Baxendale (from Amateurist's big sale). I've only listened to a quarter of it so far: I thought "Music for Girls" was great, but I got a little scared as the next few songs rolled out -- it got a bit too, umm, Divine Comedy for my tastes. But there's still about a 50-50 chance that I'll decide I like that upon further listens. Even if "Divine Comedy + Ladytron" as a description makes me shudder.

nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 17:26 (twenty-one years ago) link

I know a lot of critic types who hate YLT.

Good thing too.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 18:03 (twenty-one years ago) link

Ned, do you actively dislike YMG? The only responses I've seen to them have been: passionate fandom and indifference.

Amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 18:44 (twenty-one years ago) link

YLT or YMG? Because I lurv YMG.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 19:51 (twenty-one years ago) link

What about YMO?

Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 19:52 (twenty-one years ago) link

YMMV

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 19:55 (twenty-one years ago) link

MMM, YMG. YMMY.

Amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 19:56 (twenty-one years ago) link

YYY Delilah?

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 19:59 (twenty-one years ago) link

WTF?

oops (Oops), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 20:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

i'm fed up with critics looking to sonic youth and expecting wisdom, taste, assuming a correctness or rightness, the sorts of things initially bestowed on newcomers by critcs hoping for a change in attitude, a lack of cynicism, fine things to expect of a rock band in theory but hopes i believe sonic youth can't be said to have lived up to anytime recently

and now sonic youth the institution, well they've "paid their dues" ? entitled to the benefit of the doubt ? they've achieved greatness some years ago ? they're enthusiatic patrons of others (with all the unpleasant indulgences associated with that word intact i'm afraid) ? asylum/geffen sponsored artistic cred for nirvana ? the godfathers of the grunge &/or industry (with the associations of those words intact) ?

yeah, it's that leadership and elder-statesmen positioning that the "critics look to sonic youth" for which grates so much, a position sonic youth would shrug their shoulders at with callow youthful ambiguity -- is the music industry that bad ?

bring in indie mock superstar o'rourke, with o'rourke protesting he ain't worthy in the media (cf: open-ended structured "collectives" like jackie-o, mothers temple or no-neck, or his collaborations with lesser mortals "groop" stereolab presumably of less import) and fingers crossed our team will lift their game

george gosset (gegoss), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 20:12 (twenty-one years ago) link

Los Lobos. Maybe not recently but I remember years back critics were masturbating over them. Does anyone here listen to them?

fletrejet, Tuesday, 18 February 2003 20:45 (twenty-one years ago) link

george gosset's bitching about the props sonic youth receive is so out of proportion to the props sonic youth actually do receive it's hilarious; it's like bitching about eddie money being overrated again and again and again...

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 20:52 (twenty-one years ago) link

Nobody reads critics.

Rockist Scientist, Tuesday, 18 February 2003 20:52 (twenty-one years ago) link

eddie money

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 20:53 (twenty-one years ago) link

I declare this thread STUPID!

(but seriously, no band could win this. too many college radio DJs aren't really critics, and they like all the same bands)

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 21:41 (twenty-one years ago) link

captain beefheart must be the classic example. and thee album only loved by the critics must be trout mask replica. i still didn't get around to listen to the whole thing.

alex in mainhattan (alex63), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 21:46 (twenty-one years ago) link

oh, at least beefheart moved in and out of the spotlight quickly, with trout mask replica getting a bad hatchet job from "producer" zappa

having read zoot horn rollo's book on the magic band, i think of that album as an opportunity to produce a really interesting listen blown by a maybe jealous zappa -- the box set of parallel unreleased recordings cleared up what the band was really trying to achieve on that album, for me anway, and i see it as the more varese-like piece, the varese blues -- the patron got in the way, was there for the credit and partially screwed up the result, in the name of "weirdness"

but i don't know the von vliet art -- whether getting into painting was a good thing, something arising out of the novel hisory of the magic band, that i don't know, but i don't think beefheart and band overstayed their welcome in the rock music world -- the whole beefheart phenomena is an interesting aside to the general ransacking of the blues by the whites, probably a curious distraction for rock critics through the years that's still fun to reflect on

the idea that whatever sonic youth does next or continues to do is still interesting to critics now however is like watching a muscal idea from the mid '80s trapped in time and self-servingly "curated" by big city scenesters, spun out beyond the usefulness of the bands ideas -- like rock bands from the '70s who endlessly re-do the nostalgia circuit -- why is this bands recent output seen by critics as important, interesting ? wouldn't it hae been more dignified for sonic youth to have moved on ten years ago ? there has been no benefit from any wisdom that might have arisen out of "mature" sonic youth (cf: the promotion of free jazzers, a good thing, but nothing to do with the sound of sonic youth, "grunge improvisors")

george gosset (gegoss), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 22:28 (twenty-one years ago) link

Improvisation is only a small part of what SY do, George. I think the real strength of their latest is in the composed material.

o. nate (onate), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 22:47 (twenty-one years ago) link

george - where is this interest in sonic youth from big city critics you speak of? the wire?

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 22:50 (twenty-one years ago) link


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