taylor swift iridescent smoke bombs thread 2019 - lover

what i was saying is that, generally speaking, i think the kinds of pop artists who sign deals as young artists -- taylor references the deal being signed when she was 15 -- are women, and obv we're currently in a time where the treatment of women by powerful men is a major topic of discussion in both culture & politics. taylor's framing of the story -- whether it's accurate or not -- is framed along those lines. to me that is pretty obvious... i guess the men on the big machine side of the story (and they are principally men) might call it cynical, but we've already seen a lot of major women pop stars take taylor's side, either on the issue of scooter specifically or on the subject of who owns art and the position women artists are put in by labels at a young age (i.e. sky ferreira) more generally. i posted that excerpt of the hollywood life blog to illustrate which people are even tacitly taking taylor's side: "Rihanna, Miley Cyrus, Nicki Minaj, Camila Cabello, Selena Gomez, Adele, and Gwen Stefani" etc. the sexual and emotional abuse alleged in the kesha vs dr luke battle is what got most of the headlines, but at its heart -- or legally at least -- it was about a woman who had signed a legal but almost certainly predatory contract with an older man, who had mostly kept the profits from that music for himself. so when i said that i think this could be an inflection point for the rights of women in the music industry, that's what i was talking about.

Like if you read Justin Bieber's bro-ish, culty Instagram post ("One thing i know is both scooter and i love you (...) Neither scooter or i have anything negative to say about you we truly want the best for you."), he (Bieb) seems to take all responsibility for taunting Taylor with that screenshot; and it does seem kind of bizarre to think that a biz guy like Braun would personally get involved in something like that? But these are all bizarre people, so who knows.

― stan by me (morrisp), Tuesday, July 2, 2019 4:05 PM (fifteen minutes ago)

it's hard to tell for her post whether taylor's claim of being bullied by scooter relates back only to that one instagram post -- because it's pretty easy to believe that he didn't know it was going to be used to taunt her -- or if there's other stuff she didn't want to bring up.

Depends if you see Kanye and his manager bullying her with the "Famous" video.

(Let alone the "Famous" lyrics themselves.)

the timeline of when scooter was reported to have taken on kanye and when the "famous" video came out is just in this specific time frame where you could easily argue that he would've known, or that he wouldn't have or wasn't formally managing him yet

Looks like he was managing Kanye by May 2016 and the video with a deepfake naked Taylor Swift dropped in July 2016, and the taunting “Taylor Swift what up” Instagram post from the bros was posted on August 2.

That was some bullshit, but does every pop star taking a shot at another pop star constitute bullying? I dunno. In her case that implies she was in some vulnerable, weaker position of power, which she most certainly was not. She may have been mad, and rightly so, but I don't see how she was bullied. If you are one of the most famous and successful people in the entire world and you are upset that Kim Kardashian called you a name, you really need to prioritize your outrage.

They showed a nude Swift lookalike taking part in a big group sex thing w/Kanye & Kim in the video

Yeah, that was fucked up. But I don't think it's bullying. And I think reflected more poorly on Kanye et al. than it affected Taylor.

I was commenting more specifically on Kim Kardashian apparently calling Taylor Swift a snake, and Taylor Swift reacting by saying it was the most hurt she had ever felt in her life or something.

well.... taylor was one of a number of celebs.... i think you could at least say there's some sort of artistic statement being made by the video. the song lyric tho is just bad aside from being wrong on the facts

If it were your wife or daughter, would you feel the same way?

(or sister or mother, whatever is appropriate)

I don't know, I don't think that is a fair comparison. If my mom or daughter were being bullied in school for being fat or ugly or unsuccessful or whatever, I would absolutely be mad. But if my mom or daughter was a massively successful pop star, and she was being made fun of in the most juvenile way by a bunch of equally famous and successful idiots simply for being a massively successful pop star, I think I could probably ignore them. I don't Even know what Kim Kardashian's voice sounds like. But, like, how much shit does Taylor Swift get on a daily basis? Just for being rich and famous and pretty. Not long ago people were debating whether or not she was affiliated with the alt right. That would be far more anger inducing then Kanye West farting out his mouth or whatever.

right but i mean i think the point isn't how you would yourself feel about them being attacked, but how you would feel if they were hurt about being attacked.

But attacked for what? What was Taylor Swift "attacked" for? She could feel sad or mad, but she came out the other end in an equal or greater position of power. I can't call that bullying.

That's why this is all so silly. There are no victims here, just a bunch of rich people fighting. Was Jay Z bullying Nas?

i think for a female pop star to have her image used in a way that she might find degrading by someone who is an equally famous and maybe even more famous male pop star *could* be called bullying.....

How has this turned into "did Kanye bully Tay in his video from... *checks wiki* 2016"? Asking JiC if he'd feel the same if x happened to his mother or daughter? Bonkers derail.

it is considerably different for women imo, no matter their level of fame

Probably. I can only imagine the pressure she feels on a daily basis. I'm saying, of all the bs she has to put up with, as a woman or otherwise, bs from Kanye West, who these days is most famous for bs, seems the easiest to ignore.

I haven't followed this story, and I'd no idea who "Scooter" was, so I assumed "Scooter" Libby got involved with several pop stars so I was like, "Yay, Taylor!" when she blocked him.

i think she's dealt with a fair amount of shit, like that groping DJ dude. I just think she really does not like dudes trying to have their way with her in any capacity, business or personal or image-wise and if anything i think it's commendable and if she wants to battle back on this kind of thing it's all good.

also as far as this Scooter Braun dude goes, other celebs he knows praising him for his total decency is something mutually exclusive from however he treated TS.

I get the same cognitive dissonance with his rather unfortunate name. Scooter for me is the Eurodance legend; Braun the less fortunate pornography director Lasse Braun. It's quite the combination.

xp

Long new article w/mucho context & analysis: https://variety.com/2019/music/news/what-is-taylor-swift-endgame-in-the-big-machine-battle-scooter-braun-scott-borchetta-1203258187/

How has this turned into "did Kanye bully Tay in his video from... *checks wiki* 2016"?

Because she is saying that his acquiring of her masters is “my worst case scenario.” And he was newly managing Kanye at the time, and then taunted her with an Instagram post soon after. And that’s why him posting with

...Karlie Kloss last weekend (dismisses upthread) feels like a continuation of this bullying.

But attacked for what? What was Taylor Swift "attacked" for?

I think an unconsented deepfake of someone naked, who has never consented to being naked in public, is different than some childish diss. Watch the video and see how she and Amber Rose are short versus any of the others.

*are shot (sorry for all these typos lately)

If Tom Waits could sue for a Taco Bell sound alike, why couldn't she sue for a naked Taylor look alike?

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/can-taylor-swift-sue-kanye-west-over-famous-video-101540/

Ugh, the final paragraph in that piece.... #triggered

The entire Famous thing was misogynistic as fuck. from Kanye making that phone call and relying on Taylor’s goodwill. And to have his wife taping the call so they could publicly shame TS was gross as fuck. And people taking Kanye’s side—fuck them forever. If she’s mad at a guy who participated in that—good on her.

prince signed with warner when he was 18 (in 1977) and the dust up over his masters really began in 1993, 16 years later
taylor signed with big machine when she was 15-16 (in 2005) and this dust up happened 14 years after that
so...

anyway j0rd otm about how this shines a spotlight on the way younger artists who aren’t white dudes get exploited by the biz

I don’t think even young white dudes necessarily get a break(?) Prince and Taylor just got huge enough to make a stink.

(I’m just speaking of the “ownership of masters” contract terms, of course; not the other creepy stuff that Taylor’s also had to deal with)

Prince started his public feud with WB in 1993...a year after signing a $100 million dollar contract with them. And of course before that, even as a young dude, he had afaict total creative control. In 1996 WB let Prince go. 15 years or so after that, he signed to WB again. I was never entirely sure what Prince's problem with WB was, exactly, but then, Prince may not be your typical story.

Did/does Madonna own her masters? Springsteen? I think U2 might own their masters. I seem to recall reading that they negotiated a much lower royalty rate in return for owning the rights. Metallica owns its masters. It probably boils down to good management and smart negotiating skills.

Oh, and speaking of that Kanye video, apparently that "boundary pushing" new HBO show features (for some reason) an animated love scene between Harry Styles and another member of One Direction.

Springsteen got his masters back under the copyright reversion act, and then relicensed them to Columbia. He had a good relationship with them though.

There might be more to the Springsteen thing. I can say the remasters are copywrited to him. This article covers difficulty faced by smaller artists trying to get their masters back.

https://www.billboard.com/articles/business/7981597/album-copyrights-master-recordings-1976-law

Interesting article. I work in IP, and music rights are so murky to me; they’re like a dark art. I’d like to sit down with one of the music folks and hash through it all, for my own understanding.

You want murky, you should look into music business accounting.

it is considerably different for women imo, no matter their level of fame

― omar little, Tuesday, July 2, 2019 7:04 PM bookmarkflaglink

No, no, no, no, no, not love she said / Don't you know that it's different for girls? / no matter the fame

Call me a misogynist all you want (I'm not), but saying that one of the most famous and rich female musicians in the world is "playing the victim to sell more records" is just reality.

Do you know what's fucking more infuriating? Her using my identity to sell records. People get killed for being queer in the country, and her equating her being bullied with that is infuriating and insane.

Her music sucks, she sucks, end of fucking story.

Prepping the grill

— Scooter Braun (@scooterbraun) July 4, 2019

She should pull a Fogerty and just refuse to play any of those Big Machine songs.

― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, July 2, 2019 10:35 AM (one week ago)

I feel like this story sort of died out, but Fogerty actually had a lot to say about it (in relation to his own struggles over publishing rights): https://variety.com/2019/music/news/john-fogerty-interview-taylor-swift-1203261584/

Thanks for posting that, pretty interesting take!

@taylorswift13 just a thought, U should go in & re-record all the songs that U don’t own the masters on exactly how U did them but put brand new art & some kind of incentive so fans will no longer buy the old versions. I’d buy all of the new versions just to prove a point 💁🏼‍♀️

— Kelly Clarkson (@kellyclarkson) July 13, 2019

Prince was gonna do that with his WB stuff.