what are barack obama's flaws?

im baffled for the same reasons shakey is

also because im a libtard

did anyone here read the article i linked to??

it makes sense to be baffled by his lack of leadership on this issue -- i am also

but it makes no sense to treat this particular case as the specific 'problem,' because taking a stand on this case is just straight-up a bad way to go about pushing for gay rights.

im not making some captain-save-a-ho argument here, just asking that folks take a look at the context of this particular case

if you guys think dude is teflon on gay rights i think you're totally wrong -- framing this shit the right way matters, and trying to change things by executive fiat isnt going to do as well politically as pushing for legislation. period. its that simple

Phrasing DOJ arguments in language as anachronistic and hostile as possible, using arguments as risible and specious as possible, isn't going to do well politically. Period. It's that simple.

deej, this is serious strawman bullshit. No one's arguing for executive fiats.

alfred you're totally missing the point here

im going to ask again, did u or did u not read the article i linked to upthread

basically, what not-defending DOMA in court would have amounted to was executive fiat, yes. of course in terms of the righteous nature of the cause its 'wrong' but in terms of the most effective end result, i think there's a really good argument for pushing for legislative change instead.

& there is no way to defend DOMA in court without being anachronistic and hostile! thats what DOMA is! what else are you expecting here?

deej as i said it's the cumulative effect of a bunch of individually defensible stuff that people are justifiably angry about - if this, even with its offensive and hostile wording, hadn't come after a) failure to explicitly support "gay marriage" b) rick warren invitation c) perceived turnabout on DADT - then maybe it'd have been forgiven as a necessary "part of the game". and all those things are individually defensible too. but it's adding up to an indefensible whole, and it's not being balanced by any positive pro-gay rights action, or even rhetoric, apart from that "fierce advocate" weak sauce which is just a flat-out lie.

Law Dork:

Even if one argues, as I often have, that a government lawyer — from the Department of Justice to state attorneys general — must defend even those laws with which one disagrees*, such a lawyer needn’t overstate his or her case. The government lawyer defending a statute with which she disagrees needn’t add gratuitous demeaning statements into the legal brief she files.

Unlike the Obama Administration’s brief filed in the Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell case turned away by the Supreme Court this week, last night’s filing in Smelt v. United States goes too far (pdf). It’s offensive, it’s dismissive, it’s demeaning and — most importantly — it’s unnecessary. Even if one accepts that DOJ should have filed a brief opposing this case (and the facts do suggest some legitimate questions about standing), the gratuitous language used throughout the filing goes much further than was necessary to make its case.

deej, how tasty do the bottom of Obama's boots taste?

yah i agree the optics are totally bad (as is the content, in a vacuum) but as i said i totally agree that so far obama has a long way to go to prove to the lgbt community that he means what he says ... i still think its important to have the right context for this shit though, like this is bad in a 'treading water' way, not in a 'drowning' way

xxp

hey alfred
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/06/who-wrote-the-doma-brief.html

how does trying to enable a sarah palin presidency by not voting for obama in FL taste?

"I suspect obama will drag his feet on gay issues so im going to enable a VP candidate that believes in witches!"

& for the 90th time i dont see how u can say im kissing obamas ass here since im entirely agreeing that his (lack of a) stance on gay rights is totally unacceptable

An election in which the GOP had no chance and the Democratic candidate had already waffled on FISA and gay marriage tastes a lot better, esp. with a side of fries.

Fair enough.

(xpost)

while the more...over-dramatic anti-obama hissy fits i've read really irk me, i think what's worse is reading people dismissing them as flouncing gays - what you're seeing is people suddenly realising that all that stuff about hope and change still, once again, doesn't apply to them. and the creeping suspicion that obama simply doesn't see this issue as one of morality and civil rights.

you know, i think that "fierce advocate" line makes me more angry than any of the other stuff. it's like...no. NO. don't fucking LIE, man.

im entirely agreeing that his (lack of a) stance on gay rights is totally unacceptable

― autogucci cru (deej), Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:31 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark

except that you're saying that their filing in this case is okay because obama should be pushing for gay rights through the legislature, but he isn't doing that either - who cares what his "stance" is? i personally have a stance of wanting to go to the moon. what's the difference at this point?

except that you're saying that their filing in this case is okay because obama should be pushing for gay rights through the legislature, but he isn't doing that either - who cares what his "stance" is? i personally have a stance of wanting to go to the moon. what's the difference at this point?

― let free dom ring (J0rdan S.), Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:39 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

where did i say that?? im saying that their filing in this case is ok because if they'd done it any other way it would be counterproductive, and that they SHOULD be pushing for gay rights legislation. as i say in the sentence you just quoted back to me

and what point when they don't push for gay rights through legislation does everyone defending them on this step up and say "this is horseshit"? in 2016?

i personally am against going to the moon

^another palin enabler

and what point when they don't push for gay rights through legislation does everyone defending them on this step up and say "this is horseshit"? in 2016?

― let free dom ring (J0rdan S.), Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:46 PM (29 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

im saying its horseshit that they are not pushing for legislation. how about we focus on that instead of what some former bush appointee said in his asinine but ultimately pointless DOJ defense of DOMA?

i dont know where u guys are getting this parody of my position here -- i was the one comparing inaction to MLK's 'letter from a birmingham jail' upthread, remember?

Obama has easily done more in his first few months than any president since FDR

Statistics, please?

ok, wrong word -- I think Reagan and Carter "did" at least as much, for good or ill.

http://rawstory.com/news/afp/Netanyahu_speech_an_important_step__06142009.html

NOTHING TO DO W/ OBAMA'S FLAWS

Dr Morbius: Anti-Peace

Rep. Keith Ellison on Obama and the progressives: http://www.politicalaffairs.net/article/articleview/8657/

http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/06/16/howard-dean-obama-anti-gay-language/

Obama to give benefits for same-sex partners of federal employees

there's some docu on don't ask don't tell on a lot of public access stations this evening, according to a feature on NPR, if anyone's interested

half-assed damage control imo, but at least something

It's either that, really poor timing (ie, it was already in the works and the DOJ clusterfuck beat it out the door) or some combination ("shit, let's push this out now instead of waiting until September").

honestly surprised fed employees don't have this already

what are barack obama's flaws? ― HIS VAGINA IS MAKING HIM CRAVE SALAD

^^^ Kinda unsettling to see that one in New Answers

still a valid flaw tho

really hope the right-wing blogosphere doesn't find out O has a V

ok so i'm hearing that this presidential memorandum will only extend relocation benefits, NOT health or retirement benefits -- if that's the case then this is some straight up bullshit. also, as a memorandum it will expire when he leaves office. ugh

He can swat a fly, you know...

BREAKING NEWS

http://i39.tinypic.com/29djs5x.gif http://i39.tinypic.com/fbcdiu.jpg http://i39.tinypic.com/29djs5x.gif

(xpost damn!)

That's a great expression.

o rly?

so sick of hearing about the fly-swatting

ok so i'm hearing that this presidential memorandum will only extend relocation benefits, NOT health or retirement benefits -- if that's the case then this is some straight up bullshit.

Obama's hands are tied by, you guessed it, DOMA. From Politico: However, the Defense of Marriage Act prohibits the federal government from extending health and retirement benefits to same-sex couples, so the benefits are more likely to be marginal -- like relocation assistance.

fucking Clinton

lol what a pathetic sop this is