Of course it may now be a back-up copy rather than the original master.
― michaellambert, Wednesday, 19 June 2019 23:49 (four years ago) link
lmao
― american bradass (BradNelson), Wednesday, 19 June 2019 23:52 (four years ago) link
original timestamps lost forever
― maffew12, Wednesday, 19 June 2019 23:59 (four years ago) link
https://www.latimes.com/entertainment/music/la-et-ms-universal-music-fire-lucian-grainge-memo-lawsuits-20190618-story.html
Genuine contrition, or damage control?
― Anne Hedonia (j.lu), Thursday, 20 June 2019 12:36 (four years ago) link
At least UMG is up 2 something kewl: https://youtube.googleblog.com/2019/06/youtube-music-and-universal-music-group.html
― Consider the coconut (morrisp), Friday, 21 June 2019 04:08 (four years ago) link
xpost -- gotta be the latter.
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 21 June 2019 04:17 (four years ago) link
https://variety.com/2019/music/news/vivendi-universal-music-group-fire-noise-arnaud-de-puyfontaine-1203248649/
― Consider the coconut (morrisp), Friday, 21 June 2019 04:20 (four years ago) link
https://variety.com/2019/music/news/universal-music-fire-zero-impact-on-company-value-1203249173/
― Consider the coconut (morrisp), Friday, 21 June 2019 04:25 (four years ago) link
https://variety.com/2019/film/reviews/childs-play-review-1203248744/
― Consider the coconut (morrisp), Friday, 21 June 2019 04:29 (four years ago) link
(Just seeing if you’re paying attention with that last one)
Chucky, firestarter.
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 21 June 2019 04:41 (four years ago) link
seems like UMG is basically legally backed into a corner here where they have to deny deny deny now; even a well-meaning and more circumspect upper management can't realistically take steps to retroactively address this. In a saner world, this is where the government would step in and have library of congress or smithsonian start a taxpayer backed archiving process but i'm not holding my breath.
― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Friday, 21 June 2019 16:46 (four years ago) link
it appears that thread just got moved to Off Topic and not deleted on SHF for whatever weird reason.
― akm, Friday, 21 June 2019 21:54 (four years ago) link
Could somebody link that Hoffman thread? I don't know their site that well, particularly when it comes to them hiding/burying stuff.
― frustration and wonky passion (C. Grisso/McCain), Friday, 21 June 2019 22:12 (four years ago) link
https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/the-day-the-music-burned-article.849828/
you have to be logged in to see the other forums.
― akm, Friday, 21 June 2019 22:35 (four years ago) link
In a saner world, this is where the government would step in and have library of congress or smithsonian start a taxpayer backed archiving process but i'm not holding my breath.Ppl keep saying this, but I still don’t get what is being suggested... The gummint’ can’t force UMG to hand over their tapes.
― Consider the coconut (morrisp), Friday, 21 June 2019 22:54 (four years ago) link
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eminent_domain_in_the_United_States
― Ambient Police (sleeve), Friday, 21 June 2019 23:45 (four years ago) link
(yes, they can, and they should)
Good luck extending eminent domain to recordings; I’ll be watching the cases with interest.
― Consider the coconut (morrisp), Friday, 21 June 2019 23:47 (four years ago) link
it won't happen, but stop being so obtuse. of course the govt can seize private property.
― Ambient Police (sleeve), Friday, 21 June 2019 23:49 (four years ago) link
I don’t think I’m the one being obtuse here, lol
― Consider the coconut (morrisp), Friday, 21 June 2019 23:58 (four years ago) link
My suggestion is that the government bails these guys out and BUYS the masters at an obscene premium (with 50-70% to be divvied among artists) but with limited reproduction rights. Effectively a national archive.
― i believe that (s)he is sincere (forksclovetofu), Saturday, 22 June 2019 00:04 (four years ago) link
Cheap at a billion and better use than another stealth bomber but certainly not a priority for this administration.
― i believe that (s)he is sincere (forksclovetofu), Saturday, 22 June 2019 00:05 (four years ago) link
xxp
fair enough, I just think there's plenty of existing precedent for this kinda thing as forks notes, but that assumes willing parties on all sides which is not exactly the case here from what I see
and on the legal side I guess this is more related to forfeiture, ianal
or yeah, what forks just said as well
― Ambient Police (sleeve), Saturday, 22 June 2019 00:05 (four years ago) link
And here we go.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/21/business/media/universal-music-fire-lawsuit.html
― Ned Raggett, Saturday, 22 June 2019 01:09 (four years ago) link
yay!
― Ambient Police (sleeve), Saturday, 22 June 2019 01:14 (four years ago) link
(?)
Oh it's a definite yay, believe me.
BREAKING: Class action complaint against Universal Music Group filed in U.S. District Court in L.A., in response to 2008 fire that destroyed master recordings. Plaintiffs: Tupac Shakur’s Trustee, Hole, Soundgarden, Steve Earle, Jane Petty (Tom Petty’s ex-wife). pic.twitter.com/5zrNSunFYs— Jody Rosen (@jodyrosen) June 22, 2019
― Ned Raggett, Saturday, 22 June 2019 01:15 (four years ago) link
Interesting list of initial artists... makes me realize that those Hole and Soundgarden albums never have been reissued. (OTOH, the 2010 deluxe ed. of Petty’s Damn the Torpedoes was supposedly “Digitally remastered from the original analog master tapes”... of course that’s just one Petty album.)
― Consider the coconut (morrisp), Saturday, 22 June 2019 01:51 (four years ago) link
There's deluxe Soundgarden reissues of Badmotorfinger and Superunknown.
― frustration and wonky passion (C. Grisso/McCain), Saturday, 22 June 2019 02:48 (four years ago) link
... although maybe not from the original tapes.
Re:Tom Petty--I wonder if this is why they stopped his reissues with Long After Dark?
― frustration and wonky passion (C. Grisso/McCain), Saturday, 22 June 2019 02:50 (four years ago) link
xp Really (re: Soundgarden)? I had checked on Amazon before posting (maybe not very well?)
― Consider the coconut (morrisp), Saturday, 22 June 2019 03:10 (four years ago) link
Yup.
https://www.discogs.com/Soundgarden-Badmotorfinger/release/9434237
https://www.discogs.com/Soundgarden-Superunknown-Super-Deluxe/release/5790240
― frustration and wonky passion (C. Grisso/McCain), Saturday, 22 June 2019 03:17 (four years ago) link
Both appearing in the last five years.
Yep, found it now on Amazon. $249.99 (Prime eligible!)
― Consider the coconut (morrisp), Saturday, 22 June 2019 03:21 (four years ago) link
You think they may have an email trail of the band saying, “Why don’t we use the original masters?” and the label saying, “Uh, we’ll use a better-sounding tape...”
― Consider the coconut (morrisp), Saturday, 22 June 2019 03:29 (four years ago) link
XP There are less-deluxe editons out there as well. A Superunknown double-disc was among the last domestic releases in that line.
FWIW, I have the single-disc Damn The Torpedoes from 2010, and it sounds great!
― frustration and wonky passion (C. Grisso/McCain), Saturday, 22 June 2019 03:33 (four years ago) link
So are the plaintiffs suing for damages or do they want to void their still-existing contracts or are they demanding a return of the masters or all the above? Or is it not clear as of yet?
― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Saturday, 22 June 2019 03:37 (four years ago) link
i mean, i see the damages listed but i'm curious if they can argue for breach of contract? do record contracts promise to maintain viability of masters in any way?
― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Saturday, 22 June 2019 03:39 (four years ago) link
i am a bit naive about this element of the industry so please be gentle
Since they did 5.1 mixes of those two Soundgarden albums, you would think UMG had access to multitracks.
OTOH, nothing's happened w/Louder Than Love and Down On The Upside (and Cornell's Euphoria Morning), so...
― frustration and wonky passion (C. Grisso/McCain), Saturday, 22 June 2019 03:40 (four years ago) link
Some of the lawsuit might be about loss of revenue streams. Take Hole for example: Deluxe Editions were never done for Live Through This & Celebrity Skin, even though there probably was a market for them, and most likely lots of out-takes, B-Sides, live stuff, demos etc. that could have been bundled into reissues. If those materials were destroyed, there's no incentive to do reissue of albums one can find pretty easily used or in a bargain bin.
― frustration and wonky passion (C. Grisso/McCain), Saturday, 22 June 2019 03:46 (four years ago) link
Since they did 5.1 mixes of those two Soundgarden albums, you would think UMG had access to multitracks.Yeah, I was thinking/wondering that same thing. (I searched around a little and didn’t find anything explicitly saying/claiming that the original masters were used...)
― Consider the coconut (morrisp), Saturday, 22 June 2019 03:52 (four years ago) link
One more thing about Hole: The second disc of LTT already came out as a Europe-only release called My Body, The Hand Grenade in 1997. It's also the only official Hole comp ever released on physical media.
― frustration and wonky passion (C. Grisso/McCain), Saturday, 22 June 2019 03:58 (four years ago) link
i mean, i see the damages listed but i'm curious if they can argue for breach of contract? do record contracts promise to maintain viability of masters in any way?I’ve never seen a recording contract, but my guess (just a guess) is that they don’t say anything about how masters will be stored... or, at most, maybe some make a reference to something like “the customary standards of care in the recording industry.” (Total speculation here)
― Consider the coconut (morrisp), Saturday, 22 June 2019 15:46 (four years ago) link
Anecdotally I've socially known two very successful indieish recording artists who owned their own master tapes of at least one album. They both kept them in piles of household miscellany, and one left hers behind when she moved out of a shared apartment and happily was able to reclaim it years later from the ex-roommate who was still there and hadn't bothered to toss it out.
― mick signals, Saturday, 22 June 2019 16:18 (four years ago) link
Stories like that remind me of this: I Am The Proud Owner Of The Original Master Tape Of Color Me Badd's "We Can Do The Nasty"!!
― frustration and wonky passion (C. Grisso/McCain), Saturday, 22 June 2019 16:33 (four years ago) link
We have an update, sadly.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/25/magazine/universal-music-fire-bands-list-umg.html
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 25 June 2019 22:28 (four years ago) link
Note that the loss of the Cadet/Cadet Concept masters by Terry Callier, Rotary Connection, Marlena Shaw and Phil Upchurch et al also meant the destruction of virtually all the major works of a hero of mine who’s not on the list: the genius producer/arranger Charles Stepney. https://t.co/qX6fNCBR3N— Andy Zax (@andyzax) June 25, 2019
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 25 June 2019 22:29 (four years ago) link
https://blog.discogs.com/en/the-discogs-top-50-best-selling-records-of-april-2019/
It’s bullshit. This is all bullshit, and you all know it. Look at it. Look at this. Reissues of reissues and barrel scrapings by faded artists of years past. It’s as if the great music of the world burnt up in some big fire {link to NYT article} and there just wasn’t enough to go around anymore. We let this happen. This is our fault. We let a tiny handful of individuals take away our collective musical heritage, bribe our government representatives to ensure we’ll never get it back, and they burnt it. We did this when we bought the same old trash over and over and over. You should be angry. Be angry right now. Do better, damn it. Stop supporting this trash and self-release and support independent artists and labels.
― Ambient Police (sleeve), Tuesday, 25 June 2019 22:34 (four years ago) link