Scorsese's movie about Dylan

I thought Ginsberg's hippy dippy benediction at the end was genuinely moving
― Οὖτις

Same--perfect exit. And I loved Baez dancing to "Eight Miles High."

It's about time we got a Ginsberg documentary, so long as we get the truth about his NAMBLA associations.

Saw one many years ago, probably the American Masters episode:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107411/

Can't remember in how much detail (if at all) it went into that particular subject.

Josh, I like yr imaginary Marty/Bob dialogue.

Seconded

jfc I never knew about the Ginsberg nambla stuff

yeah me neither

Reading the Ronee Blakley interview now.
She’s also known for her solo albums and roles in “Nightmare on Elm Street” and “The Driver” on screen and “Pump Boys and Dinettes” on Broadway.
Saw the original production of the last-mentioned before she got there, I think. Thought it would die on the vine.
https://people.com/archive/gone-from-nashville-ronee-blakley-is-waiting-tables-in-pump-boys-and-dinettes-vol-18-no-21/
Guess it fills some sort of niche.

Seems it wasn't an old folks home after all.

Where did you go first?
We went to Falmouth, Mass., where we stayed in a rambling motel that was out of season for the beach crowd; it was already fall with winter coming on. But there was a mahjong tournament taking place, with all ladies, and they filled up the main dining hall at dinner, and we put on a show for them. Allen Ginsberg read that night to the ladies, as you see in the film. I shaved Allen’s beard off that night, because I wanted to see his face, and he let me. That’s why at the beginning of the film he has a beard and then at a certain point he doesn’t.

i figured it was a tournament or a social group - no way an old folks home would have that many well-dressed *cheerful* women in one place together, especially back then lol

Yes, you are on the ball as usual.

In connection with Ronee Blakley, I thought the whole thing about Dylan telling Sharon Stone that he'd written "Just Like a Woman" for her may have been lifted, consciously or not, from Keith Carradine's "I'm Easy" scene in Nashville--I have to believe Dylan was very aware of the film, as Blakley's presence in Rolling Thunder would suggest.

I guess the presence of that “Jack Tanner” character (whose interviews I skipped through) is another Altman connection.

Maybe the Rolling Thunder crew felt to Scorsese like an Altman movie, or something.

I can see that--Altman's Garrison Keillor film felt very Rolling Thunder-ish (in that Keillor and Dylan are drawing from some of the same sources).

(You guys know that Michael Murphy is one of the stars of Nashville, right?)

I happened to catch a screening of Nashville and see Rolling Thunder in the same week and the two films do kind of blend together quite a bit

According to Will Hermes in Love Goes To Buildings On Fire, not only was Patti Smith asked to joined the tour, which she declined, Lou Reed was asked as well.

So much blue denim on the Rolling Thunder tour, as if Dylan sent out a directive for everyone to wear it

Funny, cuz I watched this directly after the Blue Jean Committee episodes of Documentary Now. Recommended.

Lou Reed was asked as well.

Lol.

Found another reference to this, from none other than Ratso himself:

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/bob-dylan-and-friends-on-the-bus-like-a-rolling-thunder-233962/

In fact, the only picker who met up with the Thunder crew and didn’t get swept up into it was Lou Reed

Here’s some stuff about Bob Neuwirth I didn’t know, including an interesting songwriting credit and belonging to a supergroup of sorts: https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1989-11-17-ca-1763-story.html

"The most exciting thing since Rolling Thunder that I've been connected with is this trio thing."

Also still lolling inside at idea of Lou Reed as a picker, a sweep picker no less.

I can totally imagine Lou Reed boasting of his sweep picking prowess but refusing to demonstrate it for anyone because it's a flashy cliche or whatever.

I've finally watched this and liked it a lot although I can't stand Dylan's "rock" live performances from that era (the accoustics ones are good) !
So many great moments : Dylan driving the tour bus himself, Baez amazing dance, their awkward conversation about their mariages, the rehearsals, Joni Mitchell's "Coyote" with Dylan on backing guitar....
I think the only things I didn't like were some "fake" parts and even that is not really a problem (well, the S. Stone part could have been reduced to just the initial t-shirt story... the rest might be the most cringey aspect of the movie)...

wtf is sweep picking btw?

Playing fast changing arpeggios, more or less. You see it it jazz and country more than rock, but the shredder guys all do it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLn5g5qIb2k

https://www.loudersound.com/features/mick-ronson-s-greatest-moments

M. Ronson's shredding was great. Also lol Bob not talking to him during the tour !

And the concert at the old folks community center is so wtf from everybody's point of view...

There’s some funny comments about all this from Ian Hunter in that link.

Bob probably didn't talk to him because he couldn't understand his accent.

All in all, I think that might be the most interesting, entertaining and funniest Dylan doc/movie (although I loved the Pennebacker ones for other reasons).
I mean just the McGuinn/Dylan duo at the end is amazing crazy !

I've heard lots of stories of people hanging around or with Bob on tour and otherwise and never talking to him, from Steve Earle to Pete Townshend. Even the people who work with him. There's that great story of Charlie McCoy working on a session in NY or whatever and then getting introduced to Dylan and Dylan basically asking him on the spot to record something. Dylan drops him right into Desolation Row, which iirc McCoy had never heard and which he only took one run at, and that was that, at least for then.

lol love Petrucci got in this thread

but to be clear, sweep picking isn't just fast playing arpeggios, it's playing the up and down the fretboard picking all down strokes, then all up strokes back down allows for more efficient shredding than doing alternate picking

also if it wasn't the fake art film Bette Midlers husband who filmed the original footage, who did?

Howard Alk and co. one assumes

Howard Alk was the main filmmaker/collaborator with Dylan. They also put together Eat The Document. Alk is sort of a shadowy figure in the Dylan saga — committed suicide in the early 80s I think?

Never heard of him except in this context, so yeah, shadowy.

Leaving him out of the new film feels meaningful — he and Sara Dylan were major parts of the rolling thunder revue but they’re both nowhere to be found here.

hmmm

that's kind of fucked up because honesty the more I think about this, I think that for me 75% of what makes this great is that footage

the new Dylan and Joan interviews were great but the fakery stuff didn't do much for me

that footage of Dylan and Joan at a bar kind of wistfully talking about why they didn't end up together was really affecting

Dylan driving the tour bus himself

I had a chuckle at that. Breaker breaker, good buddy.

Another great quick bit was the group singing "Love Potion No. 9". Joni really got into it.

They should have done the Tijuana Brass version.

Dylan driving bus was amusing. Missing Sara was kind of disturbing, I guess.

And maybe a way to be left alone on the road... but I'm not sure there's another example of a big star driving his/her own tour bus !

I wonder what his handle was.

Do you really think he drove the bus that often, aside from that clip?

Jack Frost drove it the other times iirc

Well I suppose he didn't drive it THE WHOLE tour but there are at least a couple or more moments in the filmm where you can see him driving.

that's kind of fucked up because honesty the more I think about this, I think that for me 75% of what makes this great is that footage
i might be wrong, but alk's absence might be more of a covert tribute — from what I gather, he was as responsible for eat the document and renaldo and clara's overall aesthetic/vision as Dylan ... so I get the feeling he might approve of the weird subterfuge of the new doc.

the new Dylan and Joan interviews were great but the fakery stuff didn't do much for me

that footage of Dylan and Joan at a bar kind of wistfully talking about why they didn't end up together was really affecting

I thought that conversation between Dylan and Joan was contrived to the point that maybe it was scripted for Renaldo and Clara except she refers to him as Bob. Regardless, the entire movie is fake in the sense that the purposes for which the footage was filmed all those years ago is not the same purposes to which it is put now. It’s one of the most Bob things Bob has ever done.