I saw that and nodded approvingly. Flawless grift to top up the coffers!
― stress tweeting (gyac), Thursday, 13 June 2019 18:41 (four years ago) link
the extent to which Johnson pursues hard Brexit and the extent to which he'll push rightwards are the big unknowables at this point. it might be that the Bannon/Farage axis are just drinking chums as disposable as any other if they inconvenience his personal ambitions, but maybe his personal ambitions aren't really focused on being the first legerndary Prime Minister and he's running as a front man for that axis with all the financial and political obligations that entails
― Oy McVey (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 13 June 2019 18:42 (four years ago) link
xp I agree actually. He doesn’t have any solid beliefs and he doesn’t do well in difficult situations because he lacks the same stubbornness to push through. Plus no work ethic. It’d be funny if every successive leader wasn’t dragging us closer to the abyss.
― stress tweeting (gyac), Thursday, 13 June 2019 18:43 (four years ago) link
Look what happened the last time we had a workshy Old Etonian slob running to fat as PM.
― John Harris is a Guardian columnist (Tom D.), Thursday, 13 June 2019 18:45 (four years ago) link
he's over i tell you
― mark s, Thursday, 13 June 2019 18:45 (four years ago) link
It’s #WhipsToryLeadersSweepstake and on his Birthday 🎁 the Chief Whip gets Boris Johnson pic.twitter.com/LVjzJBs0ud— Labour Whips (@labourwhips) June 13, 2019
― stress tweeting (gyac), Thursday, 13 June 2019 18:46 (four years ago) link
I thought he was rolling a joint there.
― John Harris is a Guardian columnist (Tom D.), Thursday, 13 June 2019 18:47 (four years ago) link
uncancel mlc
― mark s, Thursday, 13 June 2019 18:49 (four years ago) link
the first reply there on twitter is the essence of alt-centrism. just look at that fucking profile
― findom haddie (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 13 June 2019 18:50 (four years ago) link
"neoliberal Zionist terf’n’swerf Blairite libtard Britnat yoon red Tory cis-gay centrist remoaner scum. all tweets are pre-approved by my Zionist slave masters"
Johnson didn't actually need the support of Bannon or anyone else in that circle to work his way into the situation he's currently in though. I'm not ruling it out, but given its already been established that he will fuck over pretty much anyone to get what he wants it stands to reason he'd do that to the ERG as well.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 13 June 2019 19:34 (four years ago) link
he fucked up one leadership challenge, he now has to stand at the most unpropitious moment in the party's history, his personal life is presumably expensively complex, who can be sure what deals he's prepared to engage in to ensure he gets to the top this time round? (leaving aside likely political affinities with other racists)
― Oy McVey (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 13 June 2019 19:43 (four years ago) link
what we know about his campaign has a very different vibe than the clubby amateurism of his last effort
― Oy McVey (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 13 June 2019 19:44 (four years ago) link
He was extolling trickle down economics in his launch speech like the past ten years had never happened. This will totally work.
― nashwan, Thursday, 13 June 2019 19:46 (four years ago) link
Hiding him away is a good idea for starters, but it is a strategy with limitations. He could be just one tactless blunder away from fucking it all up, then they'll become amateurs! Or no one will care and applaud him, then they are clever operators again.
― calzino, Thursday, 13 June 2019 19:50 (four years ago) link
it's unknowable at this stage but he's got very dodgy allies who've already thrown god knows how much money at achieving the Brexit they want and his fecklessness is not proof against an attempt to force the hardest of Brexits now. I find him less convincing as an erstwhile one nation Tory who just wants to be PM than most of the other possibilities
― Oy McVey (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 13 June 2019 19:56 (four years ago) link
"I find him less convincing as an erstwhile one nation Tory"
his sister probably does as well.
― calzino, Thursday, 13 June 2019 20:30 (four years ago) link
ok if gove wins the uk politics thread has to be called "one nation under a gove"
― findom haddie (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 13 June 2019 20:31 (four years ago) link
He isn't convincing as someone who believes in anything other than himself and his career tbf.
― John Harris is a Guardian columnist (Tom D.), Thursday, 13 June 2019 20:31 (four years ago) link
not that I'd put any actual "one nation tories" above boris tbh, cos they are all trash.
― calzino, Thursday, 13 June 2019 20:33 (four years ago) link
but you have to distinguish between between different levels of evil tory trash on this thread or a clusterfuck is on the way.
― calzino, Thursday, 13 June 2019 20:35 (four years ago) link
rather than quoting whatever argument isn’t gelling with you? Do you not see why putting that argument on people who never even alluded to this could be insulting?
I literally said that's my summation and I could be wrong. I wasn't being sarcastic saying that, I genuinely was not sure the precise angle at work. I genuinely meant please tell me if that's not what you're saying. Because I wasn't sure and I don't even know if you and xyzzz think the same thing, how could I?
There's no master troll plan or something. You target my posts on this thread repeatedly and try to force a personal argument, over and over again, to the point that I can barely post here even when what I'm saying is relatively similar to what other people say. You're also the angriest person in this thread.
Most of the time I come to this thread without major convictions beyond the broader ones most of us share here, but tend to question things to find my way to something more close to that. Not everybody is certain of things.
Yeah I get exasperated or make a joke but no more than anyone else here.
The discussion with xyzzz seemed to go on and and end relatively amicably. I'm sick of getting flamed or treated like a troll just for posting fairly occasionally or having a debate. It's totally unfair and on this occasion my posts were not even responding to a single thing you had said, you just appeared to attack me.
I've tried several times to draw a line under this but it obviously won't go anywhere, the bit you picked out of my post above was me being me as careful as I can to show I wasn't sure where the argument had gone and maybe I'd got it wrong and if so let me know, and somehow that's me attacking someone.
I fucking hate this, having to get embroiled in someone attacking me personally and not the things I said. It's totally unfair.
― FernandoHierro, Thursday, 13 June 2019 20:35 (four years ago) link
The thing is all these ERGers are going on and on about his tenure as London Mayor when he was far more pro-immigration than official Tory policy at the time and was touting amnesties for illegal immigrants. They're so fucking dumb they don't realize he got elected by being as unTorylike as he could get away with but mostly by keeping out of people's hair by sitting on his fat arse doing nothing all day - much as Sadiq Khan is doing now.
― John Harris is a Guardian columnist (Tom D.), Thursday, 13 June 2019 20:39 (four years ago) link
he beat Ken Livingstone, that takes something special does that.
― calzino, Thursday, 13 June 2019 20:51 (four years ago) link
xp excuse you, Sadiq is a far right hate figure and he hasn’t spunked a load of money on a bus that cooks old people
― stress tweeting (gyac), Thursday, 13 June 2019 21:05 (four years ago) link
ive often pondered the theory, call it the dennis wise proposition, that you could take out the likeliest to draw opprobrium in incremental steps from the ukpol threads and the net average level of rancour between participants would remain constant throughout the process
can we nominate the two least likely for an experiment in which they have their own ukpol thread and give it a week before they are fee-huriously hissing at each other in place of discussion
that would be good imo
― godfellaz (darraghmac), Thursday, 13 June 2019 15:34 (five hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
hard border iykwim
― imago, Thursday, 13 June 2019 21:07 (four years ago) link
khan's still a slimy slick prick though. I still don't like him for using the word "power" about 89 times in a speech to try and undermine Corbyn, when he was looking weak, and these cunts were plotting to take control of the PLP again.
― calzino, Thursday, 13 June 2019 21:11 (four years ago) link
Chuk has joined the Lib Dems
― FernandoHierro, Thursday, 13 June 2019 21:16 (four years ago) link
finally at rest in his spiritual home
― RUSSIA’S SEXIEST POKER STAR ELECTROCUTED BY HAIRDRYER (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 13 June 2019 21:18 (four years ago) link
oh lol. I thought that was days ago ..but official now! There needs to be a by-election then because hardly anybody voted LibDem in his constituency.
― calzino, Thursday, 13 June 2019 21:19 (four years ago) link
a bus that cooks old people
― RUSSIA’S SEXIEST POKER STAR ELECTROCUTED BY HAIRDRYER (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 13 June 2019 21:19 (four years ago) link
It's the new Sturridge Has Joined Chelsea
― John Harris is a Guardian columnist (Tom D.), Thursday, 13 June 2019 21:21 (four years ago) link
more like fucking Winston Bogarde!
― calzino, Thursday, 13 June 2019 21:25 (four years ago) link
Must be confident he could win a by election.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streatham_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
― stress tweeting (gyac), Thursday, 13 June 2019 21:25 (four years ago) link
bogarding a safe labour seat for starters is mr 40K a week!
― calzino, Thursday, 13 June 2019 21:28 (four years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sbk7BZXAeg
― Uptown VONC (Le Bateau Ivre), Thursday, 13 June 2019 21:32 (four years ago) link
I find him less convincing as an erstwhile one nation Tory who just wants to be PM than most of the other possibilities
If there is dark money flowing into the Johnson campaign in exchange for policy then yes it would be good to know that now and not after he's made PM. I don't believe he's a One Nation Tory or a secret liberal or anything else but his guiding principle has always been self-advancement and self-promotion.
I'm not convinced he would self-immolate his Premiership by going straight for No Deal because the consequences would involve either being ousted, losing an election or forced into a humiliating return to the negotiating table.
If he does I think its more likely to be through stupidity and miscalculation rather than because Arron Banks has paid for it. But then maybe that's just naivety speaking. If it does happen I think we're looking at the obliteration of the Conservative Party for a generation.
― Matt DC, Friday, 14 June 2019 07:04 (four years ago) link
what are the options? he could bring back the May deal with some boris branded flannel attached. still wouldn’t get past the DUP. probably just end up kicking the can again and again. at some point somebody has to do something though - hazards already flashing on the dashboard of the economy
― ||||||||, Friday, 14 June 2019 07:23 (four years ago) link
leader of the conservative muslim forum drawing a comparison between boris and hitler on the today programme. lovely stuff
― ||||||||, Friday, 14 June 2019 07:53 (four years ago) link
The alternative I guess is he calls an election in expectation of winning it but there isn't really time and we're still in the same situation if he does, or if there's a hung Parliament with the Tories as largest party.
Do we think there's any chance of Jeremy Hunt springing a surprise?
― Matt DC, Friday, 14 June 2019 07:54 (four years ago) link
would you bet against any of them not getting dark campaign money for policy
does anyone really believe that the obliteration of one of two options could occur for a generation
― godfellaz (darraghmac), Friday, 14 June 2019 07:55 (four years ago) link
Hope not. Hunt has survived through 9 years of being successively awful in each portfolio, he’s much less likely to bow to pressure.
― stress tweeting (gyac), Friday, 14 June 2019 07:56 (four years ago) link
He'd have to get caught fucking a corpse for his vote to collapse enough for Jeremy Cunt to spring a surprise imo.
going back to the tax cut thing that would devastate the Scot Tories. Although it was just signalling to the gallery stuff it probably is a taste of the complete lack of foresight and thought to come and perhaps it shows his team only truly have him under control when he's out of sight.
not stoked for anything that's coming right now.
― calzino, Friday, 14 June 2019 07:57 (four years ago) link
Polly Toynbee vs Charles Moore re BJ on Today right now. Thanks BBC.
― Oy McVey (Noodle Vague), Friday, 14 June 2019 07:57 (four years ago) link
what’s his brexit platform in that election though? given the party is existentially split on the question. failing to see how he reconciles the zugzwang without leaning on the milquetoast tory wets and pivoting to no deal for that election
― ||||||||, Friday, 14 June 2019 08:00 (four years ago) link
but then at the same time as matt says that sets his premiership on fire and would be a very serious situation for a deeply unserious man
― ||||||||, Friday, 14 June 2019 08:02 (four years ago) link
I think Hunt & Gove wld be 'stronger', more autocratic PMs. mb the 'anyone but Boris' crew will get behind Gove
― ogmor, Friday, 14 June 2019 08:04 (four years ago) link
If Raab gets a decent headwind he could split the hard Brexit vote and prevent either of them getting on the final ballot.
Is there a single Remain Tory in the race or have they all decided there's just no point?
― Matt DC,
Given the strong numbers, could brexiters look at this and think we can split the hard brexit vote and make sure both are on the final ballot, Boris has voters to spare that could go to Raab if they wanted too game it?
― anvil, Friday, 14 June 2019 08:06 (four years ago) link
Stewart is the ideal candidate from a Labour POV bc he can't possibly bring in the Tory right and Brexit crew, so he wld probably lose any election. Gove or Johnson would just have to appeal to a few more centrists than Corbyn, which isn't too hard to imagine
― ogmor, Friday, 14 June 2019 08:06 (four years ago) link
xps
It's strange listening to Polly these days without thinking about recently read accounts about her dad getting blind drunk with his soviet agent best pal Donald Maclean and trashing numerous flats!
― calzino, Friday, 14 June 2019 08:11 (four years ago) link