Scorsese's movie about Dylan

another point: at various times onstage, Dylan (along w McGuinn in the final performance clip) looks completely crazed while singing. Perhaps accentuated by the excessive guyliner, but it's certainly striking.

I think so, but that was right before I went to bed so I wuz sleepy…am I allowed to say that Allen Ginsberg, Joan Baez and Patti smith all fuckin' suck? So many bogus-ass people were drawn to the guy and here they test the upper limits of post-hippie obsequiousness…

I think there should be some long form but not academic article about Dylan cinema. Like, one thing that I'd like explored is how does the now forgotten Masked & Anon. tell us about Renaldo & Clara and I'm not There?

Smith and Ginsberg suck, Baez is such a marvelous camera prsence.

*presence

Glad to hear that it sounds like we finally at long last have some footage of Patti Smith talking about arthur rimbaud - always been interested to hear her thoughts on that obscure figure

she's embarrassing by my lights

her NYC accent is the best, though (Artur RAMBO)

ah I love Ginsberg, it's Smith and Baez I have no time for. Although Baez is a great foil for Bob and in that context she is very funny and insightful. As Alfred notes, her dressing up as Bob and fooling the whole crew is a highlight.

I watched Masked and Anonymous fairly recently, there's a bunch of good stuff in it.

how did Ronson end up with this gig?

IIRC, the story went that Ronson was working in New York at the time. He was introduced to Dylan, and then was brought on as sort of a band leader. Ronson connected with McGuinn on the tour, leading to him producing McGuinn's Cardiff Rose album, which had most of the Revue players as the session band.

Ronson is quoted in the doc as saying, "He didn't even know my name."

Although Baez is a great foil for Bob and in that context she is very funny and insightful.

I thought she came off very well, and while she's no way his equal she's no hanger-on and reminds me a bit of Connie in The Godfather series: she can tell him to fuck off to his face b/c she knows exactly where every body is buried. And in her own right she's a wonderful camera presence.

I think there should be some long form but not academic article about Dylan cinema. Like, one thing that I'd like explored is how does the now forgotten Masked & Anon. tell us about Renaldo & Clara and I'm not There?

Ebert on "Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid": "Bob Dylan plays a character named Alias, and should have used one. His screen presence makes him look as if he's the victim of a practical jokes involving itching powder."

let's not forget "Hearts of Fire"

Is that the one where he plays a chainsaw artist?

no, that's All About Eve

Ebert otm.

Yeah, Baez doing some weird Perry Farrell moves to a jammed out Eight Miles High was some amazing viewing.

you missed the part when she covers "Been Caught Stealing"!

I just watched an hour and 15 mins, and Bob is having the time of his life in the retrospective interviews…like when he says that Scarlet was going with "the leader of Kiss…"also, was there another era where he really went for it as a showman, as he is doing here? as opposed to my own experience, in person or on TV, in which he dodders around seemingly stoned and does not seemed concerned with the prerogatives nominally prized by show biz professionals?

was there another era where he really went for it as a showman

he's *always* onstage

or rather "onstage" I guess. "song and dance man" etc.

is this showbiz enough for you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8qE6WQmNus

The answer to all of the questions raised in this thread about this movie are the same.

Cocaine.

"Why is that person g-"
Cocaine
"How come Sam Shepard want-"
Cocaine
"What's with Dylan and acting all-"
COCAINE

This movie made me have cocaine thoughts just watching.

This movie out cocaines the Last Waltz.

THE LAST WALTZ

Was about to say earlier on when someone mentioned Dylan looking crazed.

The use of Ginsberg slightly offended me: "Hey, here's this homo jester, let's laugh at him but he's kinda cool." Otoh most of these men and women act like children. When I got to the end, I almost understood why Reagan got elected.

“Must be Santa” is ‘enough’ of a lot of things for me, but ‘showbiz’ not in the top 20

I thought Ginsberg's hippy dippy benediction at the end was genuinely moving but admit that might be just because he reminds me so much of the Jewish side of my family

also liked how Ginsberg's facial hair/haircut changed throughout the film - one minute he looks like David Cross in a fake beard, the next hey its Wallace Shawn

Patti Smith is great, but her south Jersey accent is so strong, it's jarring.

xpost Wasn't that the whole Boomer 70s trip? - post-hippie adolescent narcissism, the Me Generation and all that. Patti Smith sounded like Gibby in Blind Eye Sees All.

Ginsberg is just being Ginsberg, mad holy fool of the underground.

Also amazing to see the footage from the same performance of "Isis" that I've known for 31 years…

Not to make this a Patti Smith pile-on but, as someone who was once enthralled by her boho punk poet thing...the more I watch old footage of her outside of the admittedly often enchanted circle of her PS Group - and this includes current era Patti Smith public appearances, writings etc - the more I realize she was and is a canny namedropping scenester who was waaay out of her league and has always used that shit to build herself up. Sorry but that's how I call it.

And Joan Baez's dancing was fucking horrific and hilarious.

xp That’s pretty much how she was portrayed in that Please Kill Me book, IIRC? (I have no opinion of her as an artist, tho I’ve heard a few cool/nice personal things)

Not to make this a Patti Smith pile-on but, as someone who was once enthralled by her boho punk poet thing...the more I watch old footage of her outside of the admittedly often enchanted circle of her PS Group - and this includes current era Patti Smith public appearances, writings etc - the more I realize she was and is a canny namedropping scenester who was waaay out of her league and has always used that shit to build herself up. Sorry but that's how I call it.

but this isn't pejorative! I admire her for it.

It's been years since I read Please Kill Me so don't recall that offhand but I'd concur.

I dunno, Alfred. It truly makes me cringe.

aside from her handful of high points, has always been a Boring Hippie

"Way out of her league" is wrong in that she got John Cale to produce her first album and moved on from album to album.

I find much to dislike about her, as I pointed out, but you make her sound like a stupid groupie.

I mean --- subtlety is something I admire if you're gonna "make the scene". And after a certain age it just comes across as embarrassing.

"Stupid" or "groupie" are two things I wouldn't call her for sure.

Not knowing her biography very well but that she broke out around 75 I was watching the doc and thinking she was like 20 or 21 maybe and cutting her some slack. But no, as I’m sure most of y’all already knew she was like 28/29 then.

I like her records but reading Just Kids really reinforced a negative impression for me of PS being phony. Many bogus scenes of her portraying herself as a wide-eyed naif, where like shes at a restaurant and she notices a guy wearing a hat that reminds her of a hat she read about in a Rimbaud poem and as if in a dream she finds herself compelled to approach him and begin reciting her poetry and then she's amazed to find out later that he was a famous musician or writer or art scene figure who thinks she'd be perfect for this upcoming project and can you imagine that, all because of Rimbaud's hat?

I can.

Rimbaud's hat?

patti smith really is a total fake in so many ways, someone who seems to have spent her entire life carefully and consciously trying to be the coolest person in the room, to the point where she's doing that even today (when it's hard to imagine she has anything to gain from it). but her best records + performances are so good it kinda doesn't matter to me.

and tbh while i will always love his early poetry, allen ginsberg's reputation + legacy looks a lot worse than patti smith's these days.

I’m watching it now, and Smith’s opening number at the folk club is pretty compelling.

Lol @ this loopy flirt convo btw. Dylan and a woman at a party

And now Ratso does a postmortem interview with her about it? These ppl weir so f’in weird