Before POLLywood - The Go-Betweens - Artist Poll #98 - VOTING THREAD

A year ago a list of Solo GM Songs I Can Remember Well might not even have been as extensive as the Intermission tracklist. It's surely been my strangest blindspot of all.

It's like that for me, too. So many of McLennan's songs, both group and solo, have gorgeous chords and textures but few of the kind of melodic or lyrical hooks that readily stick. On Go-Betweens albums, although RF's songs are what I remember best, GM's provide a sort of lush sound bed out of which RF's can emerge with their engaging directness.

In 'Grant and I', Forster explains that, for him, 'Riddle in the Rain' is all about Amanda:

"Most of the songs on the two albums are about Amanda, and those that aren't sound like songs trying not to be about her. It's extraordinary how much she possessed him, and how public he was willing to make his need for her known. (...) 'Riddle in the Rain', sequenced last on 'Fireboy', was his line in the sand. He is still trapped forever - 'But I'm still a long way / I'm not even close / Tell me who do I pay to get rid of your ghost?', as each chorus laments - the tone in the verses swinging between resignation and sarcasm, an attitude her carried in life that surprised people expecting the sincere romantic. With nothing to lose he turns on his subject and the past. 'You rock and roll schoolgirl / You said the mechanism was fixed / You let your lips curl / It's funny how some things stick.' The swoon of the tune has made him reckless. Was this the last twenty-four hours in their home? 'A genuine proposal / A shifting of skin / Then a quick disposal to the cut-off bin.' There's even a fascinating passing take on The Go-Betweens before Amanda joined - on Lindy, Robert, myself and Grant in order: 'A reluctant bitter feminist / A boy with thin wrists / A tall man with a gift / And I'd never been kissed.' The song, played with a guitar strum and vocal I knew so well, sounds like it was recorded live and late at night, Grant dying to get this six-minute-plus epic that he knows is brilliant - an exorcism, a cry of freedom - out of himself and into the world. It's one of his greatest songs, and with a minimal arrangement: Dobbyn lets him go, only trailing an organ to the songwriter's guitar; Grant bursts into focus."

Oh Wow! I am very excited for this one.

xpost there you go then, I bought the book a few weeks ago but must get reading it right away.

As I said upthread I've never heard the reunion albums, so I'm concentrating on the 'classic era'. One of my first impressions on re-listening to those albums, leaving aside the first and "Before Hollywood", is what a succession of ill-judged duds Grant McLennan inflicted on us poor Go-Bs fans! There's one, more often two per album.

I wonder if River of Money will get any votes.

I've got no problem with Grant on Liberty Belle or 16LL myself - like Before Holywood they're pretty much flawless albums to me: even the slighter subs work in context.

Songs not subs.

I hate that "Palm Sunday" song and he overdoes the schmaltz on 16LL - for my taste anyway.

As I said upthread I've never heard the reunion albums,

This is a mistake which you have time to correct. Oceans Apart is a triumph for all concerned, including McLennan, and TFORW is a strong comeback in its own right.

As for 16LL, "Quiet Heart" (better use of the "With or Without You" chord progression than "With or Without You") and "Streets of Your Town" rank among his best.

Love SOYT, cannot abide "Quiet Heart". Each to their own though.

I don't like Quiet Heart at all either, and think I'll rank River of Money quite highly. It's weirdly one of my favourites - guess I like him better when he's sad.

During my first phase of being a fan I also ignored the reunion albums other than a cursory listen to a few tracks once, but more recently I've corrected that and have decided that artistically, it might be the best reunion of any band ever. For so many reasons Grant's death is a tragedy, I hope it's not too selfish to bring up the fact he was producing songs as good as Finding You and Poison In The Walls right near the end and how sad it is there would be no more...

(I take there is not a decent sounding version of Oceans Apart I can illegally download somewhere? Like a vinyl rip?)

Also saw RF cover In the Core of a Flame, which I've always thought was one of those Grant duds, on the latest tour, and he did a good job. It feels more in his wheelhouse.

I hope it's not too selfish to bring up the fact he was producing songs as good as Finding You and Poison In The Walls right near the end and how sad it is there would be no more...

and "The Statue" and "No Reason to Cry"!

all of them, really

During the first decade, did McLennan play lead guitar after 1983? It's hard to tell.

Absolutely, he was the lead guitarist!

Distant xpost but we've already discussed how Robert buries or generally avoids talking in any real detail about Grant's drug use (as well as his own). But there are lots of to my ears drugs/heroin/withdrawal references in Riddle in the Rain, many couched in the common rock song metaphor of a romantic relationship. "well way back in crete and you've got the chills," "i guess there are some holes you don't fill ," "yeah i know this is final and pipes can break and milk can go sour but i'm still waking up with aches at early morning hours," "invaded by pictures of a hospital bed, drips, cuts and stitches and your shaking head, a necessary performance, maybe an exorcism." Coincidence or no, these are exactly *not* the lines that Robert quotes in his book.

Anyway. Worth seeking out duo recordings of "Clouds."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smfT5NvmmWU

Reminds me also of one of my favorite Grant moments, his spellbinding, gorgeous cover of Springsteen's "If I Should Fall Behind:"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWLPMzxSGWs

Robert Vickers commented on the lead guitar situation in the band on the Go-Betweens forum:

"Virtually all the lead guitar you hear on GBs albums is Grant. A lot of his bass playing on the early records are almost lead guitar parts as well. One of the reasons they wanted a fourth member after BH was to free Grant up to play lead giutar. Which he did for until the breakup. Robert occasionally dabbled but seemed happier playing chords and working on a stage persona. A division of labour that I thought worked very well.

Grant almost always played electric and developed a simple, melodic and somewhat emotional style that really worked with the songs. Man O' Sand is my favourite. I'll be interested to see what he does with Darlinghurst Nights live. I like the horns on that track but a nice long Grant solo on the end would have been interesting. I understand Grant likes playing acoustic now and that's the direction of the band, but the more electric he plays the more ideas he comes up, with particularly on Robert's songs. the intro to Spring Rain etc etc. "

The faintly frustrating thing about the lesser songs on the '80s albums is that there was no lack of interesting McLennan tracks amongst B-sides ("This Girl, Black Girl", "Casanova's Last Words", "Newton Told Me") and BBC sessions ("Secondhand Furniture") or completely unreleased at the time ("Emperor's Courtesan", "Apples in Bed", "You Won't Find It Again")

Good to hear xpost. He rarely played lead on his solo albums (the electric part on "Horsebreaker Star" an exception).

Oh man, reminds me how much I like that title track. great album closer.

No-one's mentioned Watershed by name yet. The politeness (?!) of the singles didn't excite me as a silly schoolkid but, while some of the production now sounds very 1991, this one has an awful lot of deep cuts I keep returning to. "Broadway Bride", "Just Get That Straight", "Haunted House", "Stones for You", etc. (Most of which, IIRC, had been destined for the seventh GBs LP that never was.)

TS: Dave Dobbyn vs Mick Harvey. LOL.

"Stones for You" became one of their standards, and I'm fond of "Sally's Revolution."

(I take there is not a decent sounding version of Oceans Apart I can illegally download somewhere? Like a vinyl rip?)

Is there a reason that you want to do so illegally? Because otherwise, the CD is $10, the download is $9, and the 128k stream is free at https://thego-betweens.bandcamp.com/album/oceans-apart

Luke Haines totally ran with 'Broadway Bride' for The Auteurs 'Showgirl'

xpost It is because the CD mastering is the worst I've ever heard on a profession release. I normally don't care too much about these things but it's an absolute abomination. It's probably my least listened to album overall and that has nothing to do with the quality of the music. Single version of Finding You, sounds much less distorted on Spotify.

I'm not merely talking 'brickwalled', it's basically ruined.

Ah - in that case I’d doubt that any vinyl edition in 2005 was mastered separately. Try the stream and see, though?

This ten-year-old fansite thread says the UK label did a second pressing at the time & would replace yr CDs, but it was only able to get the situation down to “distorted” from “horribly distorted”

So, weirdly, the Locust Girls song posted upthread is available on Spotify (UK) but titled Ashes on the Lawn, from the Worlds Apart EP:

https://open.spotify.com/track/6OhZNKHWswXlFpUPjty9Ub?si=mf4B8JROTJKqRMKf2cC9RA

I wonder if that's a fuck-up or whether that's an alternative name for the track.

Well that's interesting. Those EP tracks are the only officially-released GBs tracks I've never heard. Maybe that's effectively only two unheard tracks rather three then! :)

With the lead guitar, it said on the 16 Lovers Lane documentary that John Willsteed overdubbed a lot of guitar parts onto 16 Lovers Lane.

Yeah, the nylon-string solo on "Streets..." is famously Willsteed's. And the various stacked "mandolin-like" [his words, IIRC] concoctions, etc. He gets quite emotional about how much he was allowed to contribute and his enduring fondness for the record in the Right Here documentary. Which was interesting given his fabled abrasiveness during that period.

I knew the fancier guitar parts weren't McLennan, couldn't remember who played them though. Love his lead work though.

The leisurely deadline is another two weeks away but here's a BUMP for anyone who might have overlooked it.

Working on it.

On the matter of non-virtuosic guitar parts, I always liked the repeated two-note licks on this b-side I already mentioned. (And McLennan's talk-y singing, for that matter.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xk_TWaznR_k

Love that track, it's on my long list.

I think it's virtually the first thing they did they did with Vickers on bass, so I guess that's the birth of McLennan as official lead guitarist right there. :)

He plays lead guitar on the first album!

Not as "official lead guitarist" though. :) Guitar on three tracks by the look of it. Interesting.

Other thing I can't believe I only just noticed: Stewart Lee wrote sleeve notes for the 2002 issue.

Not sure how I failed to realise it was Amanda Brown playing violin on this!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2R-dV6uwYk

I think I have my top 30 Go-Betweens songs and my albums list ready. Just need to work on the solo/side projects part now.

These guys really are the best.

Didn't realise that Westlake played a BBC Janice Long session in 1987 backed by Brown, Forster & Vickers. (xpost)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSwA4zCZXVk

starting to worry that these songs are all Too Good and therefore impossible to rank

Go Betweens done in by choice paralysis.

More like Can’t-Choose-Betweens amirite