Scorsese's movie about Dylan

The film does not quite wish to tell you what it was like in any obvious way. There is something weird and mischievous going on. The concert footage and backstage scenes appear to be drawn from the same trove of archive material that formed the basis of Bob Dylan’s lengthy and ill-fated 1978 film about the tour, Renaldo and Clara, which he co-wrote with the late Sam Shepard – who is interviewed here. Like that film, the Rolling Thunder Revue does have some personae who may not be, strictly speaking, factual. The footage is attributed to a certain dyspeptic film-maker who is actually the performance artist and comedian Martin Von Haselberg, husband of Bette Midler. A certain politician is interviewed and you may think: “Wait, that guy looks like the actor Michael Murphy.” It is the actor Michael Murphy. Could it be that this is all a modern commedia dell’arte in which, with Scorsese’s discreet assistance, Dylan is retreating behind masks, masks that might allow him to tell a higher truth?

Possibly. Scorsese drops further hints with clips from films concerned in various ways with theatrical performance: Georges Méliès’s The Vanishing Lady (1893), Marcel Carné’s Children of Paradise (1945) and Tony Gatlif’s Latcho Drom (1993). Sometimes the creative semi-remembering is a bit opaque, and there were times when I could have done with some more straightforward documentary realism. But it’s churlish to complain when this is all so gripping, both as a time capsule and as a showcase for Dylan’s unique presence and glorious performances from Baez, Mitchell and also from Patti Smith who was not actually a member of the Rolling Thunder tour but is shown performing before it got started.

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2019/jun/11/rolling-thunder-revue-a-bob-dylan-story-review-martin-scorsese

Marty takin his Spinal Tap image back from Rob Reiner

At the time Dylan said Children of Paradise influenced R&C.

In this docu I think he now says he got the whiteface from Kiss. Enfants du Paradis does contain the lines of dialogue "You go your way and I'll go mine" and "Love is so simple"...to coin a phrase.

A few years ago I attended a screening of the only known complete print of Ranaldo and Clara in the UK - looking very pink in places, but perfectly watchable - and the guy who introduced it made the good point that R&C is the single project that Dylan has spent the most time on (it was a long time in the 'editing suite').

As a non-fan I thought the film was enlightening and the old footage fantastic. The "F For Fake"-y stuff pretty inessential, honestly. Joni Mitchell stole the show as far as I'm concerned.

Halfway into this and gawd, it's dope as f.

Question for those who've seen it from a Dylan agnostic: I'm interested to see this, but I've always found the "Dylan as ultimate trickster/liar" narrative to be really tedious. How annoying is the fakey stuff in this? I wanna see this famous band shred through a bunch of great Dylan songs, but I'm not trying to see a lot of Sharon Stone doing improv or whatever is going on there.

Dylan has the best bullshit detector of anyone on screen, and it's fun watching him endure the post-hippie twaddle that he himself endorsed because the revue was, after all, his idea.

Half hour into this and totally loving it. Also, holy shit, is that Mick Ronson playing guitar in his band?

yes!

In Renaldo and Clara there's a scene where Mick Ronson won't let Ronnie Hawkins backstage. Hawkins says something like, "I don't care nothing about England or David Bouuuie or his lead guitar picker."

(I haven't seen it; that's from a friend quoting from memory.)

Sloman's book is worth tracking down also, imho.

This was fantastic. Joni's performance of "Coyote" steals the film imo. Michael Murphy and Sharon Stone sequences egregiously unnecessary, Von Dorp stuff works better (possibly because the dude playing the role is more of an unknown). Patti Smith's performance is embarrassing, Joan Baez's onstage gyrations with McGuinn are hilariously awful. Dylan and the band get in a bunch of incredible performances, my favorite being the piano-led version of "Simple Twist of Fate" (which is sadly cut short, but followed by an awesome solo Dylan version). Dylan's interview responses are all gold.

can't wait to see this

This was fantastic. Joni's performance of "Coyote" steals the film imo.

lol this will be the second classic rock film then

Dylan singing and playing while walking among a crowd at a native american reservation also pretty eye-popping

Agree that "Coyote" is stinking, fully formed.

is that a typo

stonking, I'm guessing.

lol

Stunning

She put some real stank on that version.

I don't get the point of the fake stories and characters, but all the footage looks and sounds great.

I don't get the point of the fake stories and characters

Dylan literally tells the viewer what the point is when he quotes Oscar Wilde

Dylan is a faker and pisser and poseur -- closer to Bowie than any folkie.

"He’s a plagiarist, and his name and voice are fake. Everything about Bob is a deception."

— Joni Mitchell

Last night I could not believe that I was seeing Joan Baez squatting and gyrating to "Eight Miles High" played by McGuinn and Ronson…how did Ronson end up with this gig? Most everyone else involved, you understand how they got there…

Also amazing to see the footage from the same performance of "Isis" that I've known for 31 years…

I had problems, particularly how the film in some ways presents Ginsberg as a homo court jester. And I can't stand this post-hippie blather that had little room for women and gays, especially in a film whose participants claim they essayed commedia dell'arte. Still!

Last night I could not believe that I was seeing Joan Baez squatting and gyrating to "Eight Miles High" played by McGuinn and Ronson

is THAT what she was dancing (badly but endearingly) to? I couldn't tell. I mentioned it my review.

i guess not everyone caught I'm Not There xxxp

another point: at various times onstage, Dylan (along w McGuinn in the final performance clip) looks completely crazed while singing. Perhaps accentuated by the excessive guyliner, but it's certainly striking.

I think so, but that was right before I went to bed so I wuz sleepy…am I allowed to say that Allen Ginsberg, Joan Baez and Patti smith all fuckin' suck? So many bogus-ass people were drawn to the guy and here they test the upper limits of post-hippie obsequiousness…

I think there should be some long form but not academic article about Dylan cinema. Like, one thing that I'd like explored is how does the now forgotten Masked & Anon. tell us about Renaldo & Clara and I'm not There?

Smith and Ginsberg suck, Baez is such a marvelous camera prsence.

*presence

Glad to hear that it sounds like we finally at long last have some footage of Patti Smith talking about arthur rimbaud - always been interested to hear her thoughts on that obscure figure

she's embarrassing by my lights

her NYC accent is the best, though (Artur RAMBO)

ah I love Ginsberg, it's Smith and Baez I have no time for. Although Baez is a great foil for Bob and in that context she is very funny and insightful. As Alfred notes, her dressing up as Bob and fooling the whole crew is a highlight.

I watched Masked and Anonymous fairly recently, there's a bunch of good stuff in it.

how did Ronson end up with this gig?

IIRC, the story went that Ronson was working in New York at the time. He was introduced to Dylan, and then was brought on as sort of a band leader. Ronson connected with McGuinn on the tour, leading to him producing McGuinn's Cardiff Rose album, which had most of the Revue players as the session band.

Ronson is quoted in the doc as saying, "He didn't even know my name."

Although Baez is a great foil for Bob and in that context she is very funny and insightful.

I thought she came off very well, and while she's no way his equal she's no hanger-on and reminds me a bit of Connie in The Godfather series: she can tell him to fuck off to his face b/c she knows exactly where every body is buried. And in her own right she's a wonderful camera presence.

I think there should be some long form but not academic article about Dylan cinema. Like, one thing that I'd like explored is how does the now forgotten Masked & Anon. tell us about Renaldo & Clara and I'm not There?

Ebert on "Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid": "Bob Dylan plays a character named Alias, and should have used one. His screen presence makes him look as if he's the victim of a practical jokes involving itching powder."

let's not forget "Hearts of Fire"

Is that the one where he plays a chainsaw artist?

no, that's All About Eve

Ebert otm.

Yeah, Baez doing some weird Perry Farrell moves to a jammed out Eight Miles High was some amazing viewing.

you missed the part when she covers "Been Caught Stealing"!

I just watched an hour and 15 mins, and Bob is having the time of his life in the retrospective interviews…like when he says that Scarlet was going with "the leader of Kiss…"also, was there another era where he really went for it as a showman, as he is doing here? as opposed to my own experience, in person or on TV, in which he dodders around seemingly stoned and does not seemed concerned with the prerogatives nominally prized by show biz professionals?

was there another era where he really went for it as a showman

he's *always* onstage

or rather "onstage" I guess. "song and dance man" etc.

is this showbiz enough for you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8qE6WQmNus

The answer to all of the questions raised in this thread about this movie are the same.

Cocaine.

"Why is that person g-"
Cocaine
"How come Sam Shepard want-"
Cocaine
"What's with Dylan and acting all-"
COCAINE

This movie made me have cocaine thoughts just watching.

They arent really anamolous, apart from the violin which is def an outlier

I think there’s also some violin on Love and Theft, which you also might want to check out if you like the classic surrealist phase albums. The imagery is not quite as wild though there is a similarity of lyrical density.

after Trouble No More I really have a hard time wanting to listen to the gospel records ever again

b/c the versions are so much better? I haven't heard it so I'm curious about that statement

yeah it's so hard and frenzied

The live versions of Gotta Serve Somebody are so much grimier and funkier

Fred Tackett is absolutely ham for Jesus on the six string

the Trouble No More set definitely rendered those records kinda pointless

still going back to it more than anything else in the bootleg series

“Martin Scorsese Hasn’t Spoken to Bob Dylan in Twenty Years“

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/martin-scorsese-bob-dylan-922912/

I'm assuming it's more like Bob Dylan hasn't spoken to Martin Scorsese in 20 years.

I’m a bit puzzled then by the interviews with Dylan in the movie. Was Scorsese not there for those?

Apparently not!

I know that dylan’s archivist/manager interviewed bob for no direction home. That might be the case for the rolling thunder doc as well.

What he says is sort of hokey, and I hate crying in documentaries--Ginsberg stops just short--but one of the most moving things I can think of in any music documentary is his first appearance in No Direction Home, where he describes hearing "Hard Rain" for the first time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84bNaA-BV4Q

This may be the greatest thread that I have never seen before.
For anyone curious about the original Renaldo and Clara, here's a pretty good detailed (but not too lengthy)description:
https://thefreelancementalists.blogspot.com/2012/02/renaldo-and-clara-can-this-marriage-be.html
Some of the best bits in I'm Not There were inspired by R and C, esp. David Cross as Ginsberg and omg Cate Blanchett---BD said she should have played him in Masked and Anonymous at least)

Added some more from 2015, about "Hurricane," the way its writing etc. came across in the 70s and later, also how it comes across in R and C, and the amazing scene, if you can call it that, in which black citizens on the street get into a conversation about Ruben Carter, people who don't necessarily know each other, but they hear and respond. Reminds me a bit of the interviews after the concert in Don't Look Back, kids overhearing other kids being interviewed re Mr. D. (Also tried to improve the look of the whole thing as much as possible w that ancient template.)