Elizabeth Warren - Foreign Policy and Medicare For All

Intriguing

Obama's was "against stupid wars." He then continued all the old ones and added a few.

Obama didn’t really have a cohesive approach. The motto was “don’t do stupid shit” and in effect he just allowed the pentagon to expand the sphere of global conflict through drones and other “tactical” engagements with little obvious long term benefit.

Could have used a more definite vision for sure in my opinion.

Nobody should have 'a plan on foreign policy'.

― Frederik B, Tuesday, June 11, 2019 2:24 PM (four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

The whole question in the poll is if we like her foreign policy plan. There must be one. I just want to know what it is, not some arcane question of whether or not there should be one. I think I'm starting to understand what people say about you.

Presidents shouldn't have cohesive approaches; otherwise you get twaddle like THE REAGAN DOCTRINE or THE BUSH DOCTRINE written by zealous aides who want to pillage other countries, leave the administration, and get six-figure sinecures at think tanks.

The whole question in the poll is if we like her foreign policy plan. There must be one. I just want to know what it is, not some arcane question of whether or not there should be one. I think I'm starting to understand what people say about you.

― ☮ (peace, man), 11. juni 2019 16:31 (eighteen seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yes, I guess the right answer is that the poll is disingenuous ;)

A liberal president should be aware of how we fucked shit up in Latin America and the Middle East for the last 120 years and think twice about doing it again, despite the cawing from NSC staff assembled from the insidious foreign policy establishment.

Presidents shouldn't have cohesive approaches

What if the cohesive approach is “stop the wars and begin the process of scaling back the military”?

stop intervening, full fucking stop

jesus fuck how many primary threads do we need for the same exact group of people to stay on top of each other's arguments? someone lock this one please

thanks

This thread is a great argument for a separate I Love Politics board though.

Never forget my beautiful mock-up :'(

https://i.imgur.com/T4qXydx.jpg

Pretty sure this thread is just market research—congrats anvil on your position on the Warren campaign

This thread is a great argument for a separate I Love Politics board though.

― ☮ (peace, man), Tuesday, June 11, 2019 10:44 AM (five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is actually my signature campaign issue

Nov 4, 2020: Defeated Trump makes fiery speech on network TV calling for secession of red states. President-elect Warren makes speech stating in no uncertain terms that any seceding states will be invaded and brought back into the Union once she is President. Nov 5: Trump, still Commander in Chief, starts issuing orders to relocate all soldiers and military equipment currently in the blue states into red states.

that is hott

do people actually think trump would refuse to concede the results of the election? he seems too chicken to try that.

yes

I mean I've long thought this, but now especially with the prospect that remaining in office is the only thing keeping him out of prison

maybe. i don't think he will ever go down for obstruction though. but perhaps the southern district of new york will get serious about his business dealings, which no one serious thinks are on the up and up

You can't just 'stop the wars'. You can withdraw American troops, but a lot of wars would just go on. And 'stop intervening' also sounds a lot better in theory than in practice, as anyone from Bosnia will tell you.

i thought i supported warren but then i read this poll and now i listen to chapotraphouse and read jacobin only bernie can liberate us from our chains

Sanders' value is as a catalyst

it likely won't work, but he's all we got

I bet Fred is really bad at writing protest signs/slogans

Aside from Mayor Pete they're all old as shit

TIL Andrew Yang (44), Julian Castro (44), Kamala Harris (54), Cory Booker (49), Tulsi Gabbard (37), Amy Klobuchar (58), Beto O'Roark (46), Kirsten Gillibrand (52), Wayne Messam (44), Tim Ryan (45), Eric Swalwell (38), Seth Moulton (40), Michael Bennett (54), Steve Bullock (53), and Bill Di Blasio (58) are all "old as shit"

The only protest slogan I've ever made up was during the anti-Iraq war protests, where we chanted 'Alaska, Iraq, Norway will be next!'

🤔

Obama's problem (while HRC was at State and Samantha Power was on the NSC) is that he was unduly influenced by those who saw every civil conflict as America's responsibility. The "don't do stupid shit" mantra wasn't really embraced until they left in February 2013.

Then along came Syria and Yemen!

Syria was while he was still unduly influenced, so I guess that's why there was so much intervention.

i don't support a candidate because there's no point in my supporting a candidate

This only makes sense if your support both starts and stops with casting your vote. In 2016 Bernie proved that aggregating hundreds of thousands of small contributors is a viable approach to campaign funding. And national campaigns need funds or they die. I've already kicked in small amounts of money for Warren twice. I figure Bernie has plenty of contributors to keep his campaign going without me.

I want both of those candidates viewed as serious contenders and able to hire staff who can do advance work for them in the early primary states. That's an important element of "support" and it's better if it isn't left entirely to 1% type contributors to finance presidential campaigns.

do people actually think trump would refuse to concede the results of the election? he seems too chicken to try that.

― Trϵϵship

oh thank fuck we get to have more kremlinology, yes let's all spend the next 18 months trying to guess what president hebephrene will be "thinking" if something that may or may not happen happens. good luck with your book brigadier pudding.

TIL Andrew Yang (44), Julian Castro (44), Kamala Harris (54), Cory Booker (49), Tulsi Gabbard (37), Amy Klobuchar (58), Beto O'Roark (46), Kirsten Gillibrand (52), Wayne Messam (44), Tim Ryan (45), Eric Swalwell (38), Seth Moulton (40), Michael Bennett (54), Steve Bullock (53), and Bill Di Blasio (58) are all "old as shit"

― Arugula Raccoon (DJP)

i'm 43 and i'm old as shit, checks out

I won’t do that don’t worry. I’m going to get some vegetarian tacos.

idgi though isn't speculating about what may or may not happen 18 mos from now just kind of what these trheads are about

All I know is I got a new display name

Is it “thirty, flirty and ready to die”? That’s what came into my head when people were talking about how the middle aged candidates were old as hell

jesus fuck how many primary threads do we need for the same exact group of people to stay on top of each other's arguments? someone lock this one please

― Good morning, how are you, I'm (Doctor Casino), Tuesday, June 11, 2019 9:36 AM (two hours ago)

thanks

― recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, June 11, 2019 9:41 AM (two hours ago)

As a private citizen I agree completely; as a representative of The State I could crack down on free speech rights and totally delete this sucker; disgustingly enough I decided to let the marketplace of ideas crush or elevate the thread as it will.

High intensity ideas are winning out as the dial of ideas is turned up to 11

Seeing where Paul Hellyer's headspace has gone in his 80s and 90s has made me a little more concerned about electing very old candidates to positions of power.

As a notoriously old person, I can vouch for the idea that old people are convinced they remember how it was when they were younger and they stand solidly upon experience, putting them far ahead of callow younger people with fewer years to draw upon, when in fact all they have is an old brain full of synapses that are starting to weaken or fail, and their distant memories and experiences are often figments of that weakening brain. I try as best I can to stay in the present and trust my recent experience far more than my hazy memories of decades past.

Addendum: From my observations, both Warren and Sanders are still fully engaged with the present and are not maudlin captives of an imaginary past.

imo the best argument for sanders > warren is that sanders is the one plausible candidate in my lifetime who seems like he could conceivably break with the post cold war interventionist mindset and challenge the national security state. not that he'd necessarily win that fight, but none of the other candidates is even going to try.

as much as i like warren, i think she would basically be obama II on foreign policy. opposed to "dumb wars" but not to the whole shebang. doubt she'd stop the drone war, for example.

Bernie has a more traditionally socialist/internationalist view of foreign policy, while Warren is very focused on domestic policy and is not a foreign policy adventurist in either the good or bad sense.

hence: "i think she would basically be obama II on foreign policy. opposed to "dumb wars" but not to the whole shebang. doubt she'd stop the drone war, for example."

Has Sanders come out against the drone program?

Think he's waiting for the ilm ambient poll to be done first.

btw, here are some Cliff Notes on Warren's positions on foreign policy and healthcare that I found after 5 seconds on Google so we can at least make guesses with some context around what she has actually said/done:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Elizabeth_Warren#Foreign_policy_and_national_security
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Elizabeth_Warren#Health_care

:(

https://i.redd.it/zi1a6jpjkvk41.png

they stuck tulsi in prematurely. or maybe she forgot she's running?

it's a running gag

Had polls disabled on ilxor when this came out. Would have voted: I like her plans for these just fine, she has a plan for that.

Everyone should know that the best that could be accomplished in 2021 if Manchin, Jones, Sinema, Warner etc provide the marginal Senate votes is some form of subsidized public option. Warren was honest about that. She wasn't as divergent from the foreign policy blob as I would have liked, but I could live with a more circumspect version of Obama, here, without the needling of Samantha Powers types.

i find it weird to keep seeing the bankruptcy bil non-beating the dead horse with biden come up as a criticism (maybe maybe it was just ilx and only 1-2 people) Because, i seriously thought she had mentioned it multiple times already. Like a lot of people's criticisms were just so peculiar. But i haven't been on the debate team since jr high and just couldn't be bothered getting citations.