Elizabeth Warren - Foreign Policy and Medicare For All

I don't see how anyone can support Sanders over Warren anymore.

at last the sanders vs. warren thread no one wanted or needed

As a foreigner, may I just implore Americans not to decide based on foreign policy unless you in fact do have a firm grasp on foreign policy.

😕

bernie absolutely destroyed

“Who do you think living today is worthy of picking up Thor’s hammer?”

In unison: “ELIZABETH WARREN!” pic.twitter.com/38QL92fy7v

— Ryan Knight 🏳️‍🌈 (@ProudResister) June 5, 2019

thanks for the periodic reminder that i cannot relate at all to politics threads these days

i don't support a candidate because there's no point in my supporting a candidate, the primary isn't for like a fucking year and my vote probably won't goddamn count then either

if i was supporting a candidate it wouldn't be on the basis of policy, because the decisive portion of the electorate has no fucking clue about policy and therefore it benefits none of the candidates to be honest about what they believe anyway

i will vote in the primary and then i will vote for whoever gets the democratic nomination and then we will talk about the deep problems with american democratic governance and how successfully implementing long-term policies is pretty much impossible, and i will push them to address that problem, and _then_ we can talk about policies as anything other than a propaganda tactic

That military greenwashing proposal should give you some hints.
― Simon H., Tuesday,

By the time Sanders gets to 80 I wouldn't trust him to sign his name

bingo

As a foreigner, may I just implore Americans not to decide based on foreign policy unless you in fact do have a firm grasp on foreign policy.

― Frederik B, Tuesday, June 11, 2019 9:18 AM (twenty-seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

As an American, can I implore you to stop posting in these threads while condescending like this

the lighting and makeup in that clip make all three look like new and improved models of Max Headroom

xxxp - if there's no point in you supporting a candidate, how are you deciding who to vote for in the primary?

By the time Sanders gets to 80 I wouldn't trust him to sign his name

― recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn)

As soon as they have completed the term of eighty years, they are looked on as dead in law; their heirs immediately succeed to their estates; only a small pittance is reserved for their support; and the poor ones are maintained at the public charge. After that period, they are held incapable of any employment of trust or profit; they cannot purchase lands, or take leases; neither are they allowed to be witnesses in any cause, either civil or criminal or economic, not even for the decision of meers (metes) and bounds. Otherwise, as avarice is the necessary consequence of old age, those immortals would in time become proprietors of the whole nation, and engross the civil power, which, for want of abilities to manage, must end in the ruin of the public.

xxxp - if there's no point in you supporting a candidate, how are you deciding who to vote for in the primary?

― Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z)

i'll make a decision at the time! jesus christ, i didn't plan my wedding as far in advance as people are planning who to vote for

no you have to decide now and that choice will determine your entire personality

I'm, however, delighted we started yet another primary thread.

based on what, though? If policy doesn't matter, what new information is going to come out close to the wire to make you decide? Aside from Mayor Pete they're all old as shit, I don't think any of them are going to change as people in the next eight months.

i was thinking about starting a few politics threads myself. maybe a few polls. "who is better democrats or republicans?"

lol brad

and lol crut. i like democrats better but i think it's just because blue's my favorite color.

I don't see how a socialist can support Warren over Sanders

I better watch out for henchmen with ice picks!

based on what, though? If policy doesn't matter, what new information is going to come out close to the wire to make you decide? Aside from Mayor Pete they're all old as shit, I don't think any of them are going to change as people in the next eight months.

― Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z)

they could drop out. they could die at the polls in iowa and new hampshire. they could have a personal scandal hit. lots of shit does, anybody who follows politics should know, come out close to the wire in primaries.

that aside, that's not what i'm waiting on. what i'm waiting on is the further evolution of the completely unstable domestic and global geopolitical and economic situation. we are in crisis and if i can judge next year how the various candidates have reacted to that ongoing crisis, that's more valuable to me as a voter than watching them navigate it in real time like it's some fucking soap opera or something.

What is Elizabeth Warren's plan on foreign policy?

Nobody should have 'a plan on foreign policy'.

You either have fifty different plans for different regions, or you delegate responsibility. That Obama/Sanders idea of creating new 'paradigms' or 'doctrines' which ends up unworkable is... bad.

Intriguing

Obama's was "against stupid wars." He then continued all the old ones and added a few.

Obama didn’t really have a cohesive approach. The motto was “don’t do stupid shit” and in effect he just allowed the pentagon to expand the sphere of global conflict through drones and other “tactical” engagements with little obvious long term benefit.

Could have used a more definite vision for sure in my opinion.

Nobody should have 'a plan on foreign policy'.

― Frederik B, Tuesday, June 11, 2019 2:24 PM (four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

The whole question in the poll is if we like her foreign policy plan. There must be one. I just want to know what it is, not some arcane question of whether or not there should be one. I think I'm starting to understand what people say about you.

Presidents shouldn't have cohesive approaches; otherwise you get twaddle like THE REAGAN DOCTRINE or THE BUSH DOCTRINE written by zealous aides who want to pillage other countries, leave the administration, and get six-figure sinecures at think tanks.

The whole question in the poll is if we like her foreign policy plan. There must be one. I just want to know what it is, not some arcane question of whether or not there should be one. I think I'm starting to understand what people say about you.

― ☮ (peace, man), 11. juni 2019 16:31 (eighteen seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yes, I guess the right answer is that the poll is disingenuous ;)

A liberal president should be aware of how we fucked shit up in Latin America and the Middle East for the last 120 years and think twice about doing it again, despite the cawing from NSC staff assembled from the insidious foreign policy establishment.

Presidents shouldn't have cohesive approaches

What if the cohesive approach is “stop the wars and begin the process of scaling back the military”?

stop intervening, full fucking stop

jesus fuck how many primary threads do we need for the same exact group of people to stay on top of each other's arguments? someone lock this one please

thanks

This thread is a great argument for a separate I Love Politics board though.

Never forget my beautiful mock-up :'(

https://i.imgur.com/T4qXydx.jpg

Pretty sure this thread is just market research—congrats anvil on your position on the Warren campaign

This thread is a great argument for a separate I Love Politics board though.

― ☮ (peace, man), Tuesday, June 11, 2019 10:44 AM (five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is actually my signature campaign issue

Nov 4, 2020: Defeated Trump makes fiery speech on network TV calling for secession of red states. President-elect Warren makes speech stating in no uncertain terms that any seceding states will be invaded and brought back into the Union once she is President. Nov 5: Trump, still Commander in Chief, starts issuing orders to relocate all soldiers and military equipment currently in the blue states into red states.

that is hott

do people actually think trump would refuse to concede the results of the election? he seems too chicken to try that.

yes

I mean I've long thought this, but now especially with the prospect that remaining in office is the only thing keeping him out of prison

maybe. i don't think he will ever go down for obstruction though. but perhaps the southern district of new york will get serious about his business dealings, which no one serious thinks are on the up and up

You can't just 'stop the wars'. You can withdraw American troops, but a lot of wars would just go on. And 'stop intervening' also sounds a lot better in theory than in practice, as anyone from Bosnia will tell you.

i thought i supported warren but then i read this poll and now i listen to chapotraphouse and read jacobin only bernie can liberate us from our chains

Sanders' value is as a catalyst

it likely won't work, but he's all we got

Seeing where Paul Hellyer's headspace has gone in his 80s and 90s has made me a little more concerned about electing very old candidates to positions of power.

As a notoriously old person, I can vouch for the idea that old people are convinced they remember how it was when they were younger and they stand solidly upon experience, putting them far ahead of callow younger people with fewer years to draw upon, when in fact all they have is an old brain full of synapses that are starting to weaken or fail, and their distant memories and experiences are often figments of that weakening brain. I try as best I can to stay in the present and trust my recent experience far more than my hazy memories of decades past.

Addendum: From my observations, both Warren and Sanders are still fully engaged with the present and are not maudlin captives of an imaginary past.

imo the best argument for sanders > warren is that sanders is the one plausible candidate in my lifetime who seems like he could conceivably break with the post cold war interventionist mindset and challenge the national security state. not that he'd necessarily win that fight, but none of the other candidates is even going to try.

as much as i like warren, i think she would basically be obama II on foreign policy. opposed to "dumb wars" but not to the whole shebang. doubt she'd stop the drone war, for example.

Bernie has a more traditionally socialist/internationalist view of foreign policy, while Warren is very focused on domestic policy and is not a foreign policy adventurist in either the good or bad sense.

hence: "i think she would basically be obama II on foreign policy. opposed to "dumb wars" but not to the whole shebang. doubt she'd stop the drone war, for example."

Has Sanders come out against the drone program?

Think he's waiting for the ilm ambient poll to be done first.

btw, here are some Cliff Notes on Warren's positions on foreign policy and healthcare that I found after 5 seconds on Google so we can at least make guesses with some context around what she has actually said/done:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Elizabeth_Warren#Foreign_policy_and_national_security
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Elizabeth_Warren#Health_care

i think sanders has been wishy-washy about whether he'd use drones. he's been weaker than i'd like on a lot of foreign policy stuff, but it's impressed me that he's stuck to his guns on things like support for the sandinistas.

I don't think he still supports the Sandinistas. He's just not apologizing for having done so, which is good.

All I know is I got a new display name

― brigadier pudding (DJP)

full credit goes to thomas pynchon for that one

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

I didn't know Gabbard and Butteigeg were the same age

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

lol

Thanks! Thanks, definitely got to improve my phrasing in asking anything like this, but pretty indicative nonetheless!

i dunno man, i had a lot of hope in Warren and today is a bummer.

I lost my hope for her campaign a while back, but I really think she would have been our best chance.

some nice summary lookbacks from people today and she did a lot of admirable things that went unnoticed.

I kind of want to buy a last minute Warren shirt and send one to my trump supporting dad to be an asshole.

On the other hand my Warren hoodie is now cooler and more valuable

RIP
http://i.imgur.com/tMRUFdz.png

and I haven't even gotten to vote yet! primaries suck!

i was happy to get in a vote for her. i mentioned my story before about my wife talking to her at the airport right before the 2016 election, she stood next to her in line and EW was really passionately talking policies with her. She flew coach.

:(

https://i.redd.it/zi1a6jpjkvk41.png

they stuck tulsi in prematurely. or maybe she forgot she's running?

it's a running gag

Had polls disabled on ilxor when this came out. Would have voted: I like her plans for these just fine, she has a plan for that.

Everyone should know that the best that could be accomplished in 2021 if Manchin, Jones, Sinema, Warner etc provide the marginal Senate votes is some form of subsidized public option. Warren was honest about that. She wasn't as divergent from the foreign policy blob as I would have liked, but I could live with a more circumspect version of Obama, here, without the needling of Samantha Powers types.

i find it weird to keep seeing the bankruptcy bil non-beating the dead horse with biden come up as a criticism (maybe maybe it was just ilx and only 1-2 people) Because, i seriously thought she had mentioned it multiple times already. Like a lot of people's criticisms were just so peculiar. But i haven't been on the debate team since jr high and just couldn't be bothered getting citations.