Remake/Remodel: DC Rebirth so you don't have to

that's literally seven Tundras

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seven six

I suspect the truth behind how much DC were willing to spend is a whole lot more complicated and is probably underwritten by WB to a degree with the ultimate aim of rolling DC direct into the WB streaming service, probably as a paid add-on. But, as you say, the numbers make no sense for DC as a business to keep sinking in - especially without the promised tax break - and when The CW, Fox and Netflix are providing nice income through syndication of their brand.

Rather than Tundra, although it's a great example, we probably need to look at how much it costs to run the soon-to-be-gone Vertigo imprint which I'll bet is an amazingly large figure.

This is a real shame and a missed opportunity though because ep 1 of ST was excellent, Doom Patrol was great fun all the way and Titans, although never shining too brightly, was solid genre television. It'll be interesting to see what happens to S2 production on that which has started - I think that's a better indicator of DP S2.

I get the distinct impression that DC/WB atm is split pretty evenly between people making bafflingly-quixotic creative decisions and accountants nickel and diming every one of those decisions (but only after they've already been underway for a number of weeks/months).

i'm definitely in favor of the former! since WB has more money than god, let's seem them waste more money on creators

My 'favorite' DC trend of late is the thing where they solicit a variety of upcoming collections (usually ones that are part of an ongoing reprint series) and then for weeks afterwards are all 'oh, whoops, except not that one...orrrrrr that one...or those...'. It gives one the impression of a steady hand firmly grasping the wheel.

LOOOOOL, speaking of which, they've just cancelled orders on the collection of Johns's run on Stargirl that was on the way. You know, the character who has her own DC Universe show coming soon.

I genuinely cannot recall the last time I witnessed a company so hellbent on faceplanting at every possible opportunity and in such a wide variety of ways.

Jimmy Olson was good!

It’s by fraction, but the good fraction

I guess since this is the thread where it's been most discussed, I should mention that I'm about halfway through Doom Patrol and, while it isn't quite the mainline of Morrison I might have preferred, it comes surprisingly close and I kind of adore it on its own terms (and, while I watch all the CW Berlantiverse shows, I'm relieved that this isn't that). And also who would have ever dreamed that there'd ever be a Doom Patrol show at all let alone a good one, so I'm just thankful.

It's been officially renewed for a second season, btw, for those who didn't know. Still pretty much expecting WB to change their mind and shut them down once they have half the episodes in the can, but let's dream together of what could be.

yeah, it’s good! we talk about it over in the flash tv show thread

Just read the first four volumes of the Rucka/Sharp Wonder Woman Rebirth run. I liked his '00s run, so gave this
a shot. Not bad for being yet another Wondy timeline revamp, but I hate that in the collections they re-ordered it so that the weaving storylines were separated into their own volumes, unlike the way it was published (and clearly meant to be read). For instance, Vol 1 is issues 1,3,5,7,9,11; vol 2 is 2,4,6,8,10,12, etc. Makes it actually more of a headache to follow.

I know this is probably a dumb question — but did DC “plan in advance” all the continuity twists & turns of New 52, Convergence, Rebirth, Superman Reborn, etc.? Or have they just been making it up as they go along, year by year?

It depends which things you mean. I do believe that New 52 was one attempt and they stuck to it for several years, even though it was semi-botched from the beginning regarding Batman and probably some other titles.

I forgot how Flashpoint/Convergence/Rebirth connect exactly but I do think they were planned to lead into each other as the "soft" reboot of New 52 (again with some exceptions, like Kid Flash returning, Superman + Son, etc.)

There's definitely... a lot of stumbling around. I mean, Doomsday Clock especially, when that ends I have no idea if that's still going to be in continuinity considering how much has happened since it started (and The Button, and Heroes in Crisis, and Year of the Villain, etc.)

Do you think New 52 Superman was always planned to be killed off eventually, and post-Crisis Supes reintroduced (followed by the revelation that Superman had been mysteriously “split in two,” or whatever)?

I don't believe so! The returning of the John Byrne-era Superman kinda stinks of a failed experiment. Especially since all the changes were supposed to make him more relatable to younger audiences (new costume, less power, tragically orphaned at a young age, single again, etc. it's alluded to in Doomsday Clock even).

That said, the Superman and Jon Kent stories have been a huge breath of fresh air for the character, so I think they made the right move. And knowing DC they will bring back New 52 Superman for some stupid Crisis event, I'm sure.

Thanks, that’s what I figured, but didn’t want to assume (I’ve mainly been reading summaries, not the source material).

I'm pretty sure none of this was planned in advance, even Convergence leading into Rebirth, or triangle Superman returning as real Superman

I think it's just a mixture of happy accidents and post-failure reverse-ferrets. And of course many of the current DC titles still stink, so maybe not that much has changed

It feels like Bendis is just getting to the point where he tries to do too much at once and blows it, as per his usual three-year Marvel cycle

I'm getting caught up on the King Batman run, up to like #48 now and also reading the later part of Snyder's Batman run (reading the Superheavy trade). I was always bummed they trashed the old story lines but it has all come around now that it all kind of ties back into Morrison's Batman and Final Crisis pretty well.

I got to say "The Button" trade kinda got me interested in going back and reading Flashpoint and Azzarello/Risso's Batman story. I always thought that Barry Allen that came back in Final Crisis 'should' have known of stuff before Crisis, but they have tied it together pretty well with that story of The Button. That and the bit I read of #10 of Doomsday Clock does have me curious to check that series out too. I traded and got the first two in like 5th print or something.

The rest of the line might be a total trainwreck, but I have to admit they have done a few cool Batman stories in that series since the reboot. Snyder's two Joker stories are really good. Got the Detective comics going to start catching up on it in the next few days.

Doomsday Clock is an entertaining train wreck

That bit of #10 then reading The Button was pretty much comic Easter Eggs dosed with crank. Anytime you got the Flash running on the cosmic treadmill with Batman hanging from a rope off a Batarang(TM), you got some real comic action going.

I finally caught up with GMs Green Lantern and it’s probably his most unreadable book since Arkham Asylum. Also Liam Sharp, yecch .

I remember when I used to be excited about new GMoz work

some Tom King/DC movie Universe info i was unaware of:
https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2019-10-01/array-alliance-ava-duvernay

When Ava DuVernay started writing the in-the-works DC Comics movie “The New Gods,” she and co-writer Tom King spent each day working in a different part of the campus for maximum creativity, she said.

The post-Doomsday Clock DON'T CALL IT A CRISIS One True Timeline looks like more of a mess than any of us could have imagined.

Get outta town.

The post-Flashpoint fuckery has gone on long enough now that I finally accepted the other day that I have no interest in ever dipping my toe back into DC comics continuity. There's still stuff from the past and on the fringes that interests me, but their mainstream books (which comprised probably 30-40% of my pull list in like 2010) can suck my left one.

It's nearly all still speculation, since large chunks of it are based on a deliberately grainy slide from DC talk at NYCC, but with the power of the internet detectives shouting SHARPEN and ENHANCE at their computers like CSI Tentacle Hentai some of it has become clear. And it makes the 5G name for the relaunch clear.

We're back to Only One Troo Kvult Continuity again, split into 4 generations. 'CURRENT' TIME IS 1999.

Gen 1 starts with the explosion of Krypton in 1938 and the appearance of Wonder Woman, and goes through the JSA, J'onnz arriving on Earth, WWII, the atomic bomb, a Keene Act and ends with the formation of Challengers of the Unknown.

Gen 2 starts with the debut of Batman and Superman in 1963/64 and last 15 years up to CoIE.

Gen 3 is the 15 years where all the big events happened. Knightfall, Death In The Family, Killing Joke, Death and Return of Superman... and the crossovers. Identity Crisis, Zero Hour, Blackest Night, all the other Crises. Basically a shit time to be alive.

Gen 4 is a 5 year period where everything from the last decade happened, good or bad. Court of Owls, Rebirth, Metal, Year of the Villains.

So 5G is the fifth generation. And all the heroes will be new again. Batman will be Lucius Fox's son, Jonathan Kent will be made even older again and be Superman. And all the rest, a new one every month from Wonder Woman in November 2020 (Cassandra Sandsmark apparently).

I'll be gone by then so some other mug will need to read it.

Sounds like they've finally worked out all the kinks. Smooth sailing from here until, what, two-and-a-half years from now when they once again shout DO-OVER! DO-OVER!

jeez so they're gonna brand each book by its "gen"? what a shitshow

Yeah, Bruce Wayne and Clark Kent back inside two years.

are they pulling King and Bendis off the flagship books?

And that would be both understandable and fine if it were planned for and they had some idea of how to get back to that point. But you know they're gonna be caught flat-footed when fans start to grumble about Lobo becoming the new Flash and they'll do the eleventh-hour scramble, all 'chee, we didn't mean it, fellas, honest, don't be sore at us!'

xpost

Speculation Bendis is behind all this. He calls himself the creator of the Ultimate line remember.

Having read the Ultimate line start to finish, I don't know that I'd brag too much about that.

Rebirth was only 3 years ago, right? At least that was kind of a soft reboot.

I'm not gonna grumble about Luke Fox Batman or Jonathan Kent Batman. New generations, new stories hopefully, definitely prefer that over bringing back a dead Flash for the gazillionth time

Feels like longer, but multiple #1s and biweekly books will do that.

Having read the Ultimate line start to finish, I don't know that I'd brag too much about that.

Having read Ultimate Spider-Man #1, Ultimate Team-Up #1, The Ultimates and four or five issues of Ultimate Adventures, I don't know that I'd brag too much about reading the line start to finish

By that logic you must consider disclosure of a syphilis diagnosis 'bragging' as well.

Penicillin won't cure a compulsion to read Bendis.

Hey now, we're all comics readers, we're all up to our waists in crap.

[looks at reading pile to right of laptop]

Bad Gateway hardcover, an issue of Meat Cake, Schizo #4, The Cheque Mate, the Bounty Law issue of Mad, an issue of Dash Shaw's Cosplayers, Love & Rockets vol II #20, kus! #30 edited by Gabe Fowler, a Hunt Emerson book on Rip Off, eleven different Simon Hanselmann minis, a stack of New Yorkers, the new TCJ, an issue of Lucky Peach with mini-interviews w/ John Pham, Sammy Harkham and Xaime in, and one Millar/Quitely floppy set in Sydney that I'm trying to bring myself to write a snarky blog about.

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comics: a friend of mine

comics: an abusive boyfriend of yours but if you keep giving him another chance he'll hold your hand in public once, on your next birthday, as long as you don't say anything stupid with your dumb mouth during the week beforehand

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Why do you make me do this. Why.

Sic, it is possible to be too much of an arsehole.

:( I’m sorry for disparaging the dude that gave OL syphilis