here's a vape thread for everyone to talk about vapitos shit because nobody else cares

i also stopped vaping nicotine because i became a much bigger nicotine fiend than i ever was. back on the "few cigarettes when out drinking" bandwagon and feeling better for it tbh.

https://m.imgur.com/ZRgY6Tp

Another nice can design.

wrong vice thread!

God, I suck at this.

Another death in Illinois, the fourth. It's very unclear by the way it's been reported, but listening to the two-part "Daily" podcast a couple of weeks ago, this is apparently by no means limited to bootleg THC carts or vitamin E oil or whatever. There's seemingly something else going on here.

this is apparently by no means limited to bootleg THC carts or vitamin E oil or whatever. There's seemingly something else going on here.

nah

Honest question, why do you say that? The last I saw apparently 80% of illnesses were in people who had used THC products, but there are people who have died who reportedly did not use any THC products. Like the Nebraska guy in the Daily podcast. So what do you think is doing it?

based on everything I've heard there is a very strong correlation but yeah I don't think it's the full story either

It appears to be less of an issue in Europe.

Honest question, why do you say that?

i guess i should make the proviso: regulation of things you can consume in the US is shockingly awful so there is a non-zero-chance that non-black-market vaping products there may have caused severe physical harm and/or death.

but i have yet to read a report which specified that someone suddenly got ill and died from using a regulated vaping product

There's a reason I wrote "It's very unclear by the way it's been reported." There are a lot of reports that do not paint a clear picture. Apparently many/most illnesses and deaths have been linked to vaping THC, but it's not at all clear what percentage of those illnesses or deaths were linked to bootleg THC products. (One presumes a lot.) Yet at the same time, there are reportedly people who have died or gotten sick from legit products as well, as well as people who didn't use THC products at all. The "Daily" podcast I heard was about the first vaping related death in Nebraska, who was an older guy (65+?) who spent a lifetime smoking cigarettes, then changed to nicotine vaping, and, they suspect, he died from that. They talk to his daughter, and she said there is no way this guy was buying back-alley carts or whatever.

I mean, there have been illnesses in Canada as well. And even then, in the article I read about the first reported illness there, you come across shit like this: "While health officials are aware of the brand of vape being used and whether or not the person was vaping a nicotine or cannabis product, they did not wish to disclose it publicly." Like, why not? Why not make it public? Or at least confirm whether or not it was a bootleg product, or even THC vs. nicotine? I have yet to see a single article that said all the illnesses or deaths were exclusively related to bootleg products, or THC products, so if it's not just bootleg products or THC, what's the deal? Why not clear it up for users and consumers?

Like, I just read the story from yesterday about the Michigan teen who go a double lung transplant after vaping related illness, but the article concluded "Health officials declined to release the teen’s name and said he is expected to recover. They also did not specify what the teen vaped or how long he vaped." I understand the first half, not releasing the teen's name, but if they're serious about preventing more deaths and illnesses, why not say what he vaped or how long? Or even say if it was a legit product or not?

there’s a difference between knowing what someone who got sick was using and knowing that what they were using caused them to get sick.

any info that is released will influence the behavior of the general public and may have unintended consequences.

i feel like the mystery is partly because public health officials are happy for it to seem that vaping tout court is dangerous

yeah there is definitely an erring on the side of caution aspect to it.

But there's dangerous, and then there's potentially acutely dangerous/lethal. Smoking is not good for you, especially cumulatively, but I don't think there has ever been an otherwise healthy teen that died from smoking.

I'm just saying that if *all* people are getting sick from bootleg THC carts, then say that. If other products are getting people sick, too, then say that. If they truly have no idea, then say that. Because being vague or secretive has its own unintended consequences, not least the implication that you're safe simply avoiding bootleg THC carts, which may or may not be the case.

For example, I've seen a lot of comments from people on various forums who react to these illnesses or deaths with the same confident, blasé "nah" as Jim in Vancouver initially did, but I don't think anyone is in any position to be that confident, which does not instill ... confidence in how these stories are being reported or how the information is getting to the public. Keep things vague and people will start to come to their own conclusions.

we know, with a good degree of confidence, that out of millions of people in the US who vape every day, < 3000 have gotten seriously ill, with the vast majority of those being people using black market carts

or that should be, "with at least the vast majority".

I understand the odds seem to be low, but you're OK with accepting a certain number of deaths or illnesses from a product?

nah it's bad.

the solution to blackmarket thc carts is the end of the prohibition of cannabis.

the solution to potential deaths from non-black-market carts is better regulation.

i support those things

Yeah, for sure, we're in agreement. My issue is with the very unhelpful lack of clarity in how the story has been reported in the meantime.

ultimately I'm not sure if they can really know exactly which carts these people were using. if you buy carts then you've probably got friends who also buy carts and you've probably hit carts that you couldn't identify. also I suspect that some of these people are not exactly being truthful when asked. which I'm sure the CDC is aware of.

I wonder if there's some kind of genetic factor to it - one would think that if it was just a bunch of bad batches of these things that they'd be concentrated in certain areas, maybe centered around some dude's basement or whatever. I suspect that the carts that put one person in the hospital might be totally fine for a different person

the solution to blackmarket thc carts is the end of the prohibition of cannabis.

would definitely help but you've still got the issue in states like California where it's legal but taxed so heavily that people just buy boots anyway

there’s a difference between knowing what someone who got sick was using and knowing that what they were using caused them to get sick.

any info that is released will influence the behavior of the general public and may have unintended consequences.

― call all destroyer, Thursday, November 14, 2019 5:42 PM (thirty-four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

well said. a little bit of information can do more harm than good. take a look at the farcical vape bans in MA and other states, where they have blocked the sales of regulated thc vapes and e-cigs

I have to read more about the case you’re talking about, but if working in medicine has taught me anything, it’s that you’d be surprised what people don’t tell you. (there’s a scene in the pilot of twin peaks when cooper and truman are questioning bobby, and cooper chides truman for dismissing leads based on his impression of laura’s character, that I just love as an illustration of this)

jim is also right that the denominator is huge and the number of cases relatively small, and the vast majority of those seem to be related to bootleg THC. I haven’t yet seen a case that has been clearly linked to, say, juu

also important to keep in mind that THC use in these studies is, as far as I’m aware, ascertained by patient report, and there are of course reasons to believe people would not be entirely forthcoming, particularly kids or people who live in states where smoking weed is illegal

that said I’m open to the possibility that juul and other regulated nicotine vapes are dangerous, I mean certainly this shit can’t be good for you, but I need something a little more convincing

The Nebraska case I have mentioned a few times was a 65+ year old dude who switched to nicotine vaping (Juul) as a cigarette substitute. You are right, in that who can really know 100% of the truth when the patient has died, but his family said it was far-fetched to suggest that he used any THC products, let alone bootleg ones.

xp. yeah I'm not super sanguine about the long-term effects. i can see myself hacking away like a miner in 20 years

And yeah, per frogbs, haven't they had illnesses if not deaths in every state now, including places where cannabis is legal?

xpost And that's what I'm getting at with all the confusion. There is generally dangerous ("smoking is bad for you") and acutely dangerous ("smoking this could kill you today"); the latter is a more recent but still somewhat vague development. I've got to assume the reason they haven't declared anything definitive is because they don't know. There are a lot of variables to, er, weed through.

a few years ago before weed became as available as it is now i'd get carts through friends a lot. sometimes those carts would start off tasting fine but after a while acquire a really sickly or gasonliney flavor (having this happen with more than one led to me stop using black market carts - this was long before any of these deaths were first reported). now i don't use any carts because i actually find it inferior in almost every way to true vaping or combustion with actual plant material (tho i'll try one if someone offers one to me), but my impression is that no officially sold PA carts have caused deaths.

You could be right, but again, it's hard to tell. First PA death was last month. This is what the Inky said: "Pennsylvania has reported nine confirmed cases of vaping-related lung illness and a dozen probable cases. The state Health Department is investigating an additional 63 cases. Nationally, most patients had a history of vaping cannabis products, though federal investigators have yet to identify a specific product or ingredient to link all the cases. Some patients reported using only nicotine vaping products." Obv. self reporting does indeed add to the confusion.

https://www.inquirer.com/health/vaping-death-pennsylvania-e-cigarette-lung-illness-20191004.html

this whole thing is absolutely fascinating to me as a public health issue....like here is something that became hugely popular in a short timeframe, is unknowable as far as long-term health effects, and has the confounding factors of thc vs. nicotine and regulated vs. unregulated. seems like a tough nut to crack.

selfishly i'm irritated because i was really enjoying easy access to thc carts before the idiot massachusetts governor went off the rails.

does this mean my magic flight launch box is murdering me, y/n

N, I think your Magic Lunch Box is about as safe as it will ever get.

aiui it’s only a cartridge problem if you’re vaping actual plant material you’re fine

Actual Plant Material
You're listening to the Hand, put down your aerial

Heh. I bet Mike Skinner could give you vaping advice.

that stupid "Irony of it All" track made me not want to touch the stuff for like 10 years

oof that is a stinker. hadn't thought about that in a decade or so

Apple banned vaping apps from the app store which means vape makers are probably scrambling to add hardware UI into their products.

so did they get to the bottom of this or what? haven't heard of any hospitalizations/deaths lately

As of February 18, 2020, a total of 2,807 hospitalized EVALI cases or deaths have been reported to CDC from all 50 states, the District of Columbia, and two U.S. territories (Puerto Rico and U.S. Virgin Islands). Sixty-eight deaths have been confirmed in 29 states and the District of Columbia (as of February 18, 2020).

Emergency department (ED) visits related to e-cigarette, or vaping, products continue to decline, after sharply increasing in August 2019 and peaking in September.

National ED data and active case reporting from state health departments around the country show a sharp rise in symptoms or cases of EVALI in August 2019, a peak in September 2019, and a gradual, but persistent decline since then. Reasons for the decline are likely multifactorial and may be related to the following:

Increased public awareness of the risk associated with THC-containing e-cigarette, or vaping, product use as a result of the rapid public health response.

Removal of vitamin E acetate from some products.

Law enforcement actions related to illicit products.

https://www.wbur.org/commonhealth/2020/02/26/vape-man-died-suffolk-county-massachusetts

it's just been bumped off the headlines by other stuff. coronavirus is the health-scare du jour

RIP Juul

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-XH92Wie0U

Today I started vaping, mostly to try to eliminate tobacco from my life. I’m not yet sure how I feel about it. I typically smoke about 5-10 RYOs a day, but I use king size papers, so it’s probably more like 10-12. I buy high quality baccy (Peter Stokkebye), and I also don’t use a filter, mostly because I never really mastered how to get those things to stay in there.

Anyway, I bought a Vaporesso XROS and some, uh, juices - I hate that word - and while I’m enjoying it, I’m still having the craving to smoke. I chose the 6mg nicotine. Maybe I should have started higher? How long does it take to not want to smoke an actual rollie?

I think quitting will ultimately require some kind of cognitive behavioral therapy or something, because a lot of the reason I smoke is to think and get ideas for work, especially since I started working from home. I don’t smoke in my house, so going outside for a few puffs has become a very welcome way of breaking up my day. I know a doctor would suggest I just replace the tobacco with something else (“why not drink a La Croix outside?”), but I don’t think that will work. And vaping outside would feel just like drinking a La Croix out there, I think.

I’m also not wild about the flavors I chose, even after asking the woman at the shop to recommend me some that were less candy-like and fruity, more savory (and more like tobacco, or at least coffee). I got something called Amy, manufactured by Silverback. It tastes fine but it’s too sweet.

I’m tired of ingesting thousands of gross chemicals into my lungs, having stained fingertips, and coughing. Maybe I just need to give it more time. But maybe there’s just nothing like a damn cigarette?

Reposting answer from other thread:

yeah 6mg is pretty low, that's what the "light" cigarettes have

― groovemaaan, Monday, August 8, 2022 1:12 AM (fifty-nine minutes ago)

Ah, see, I think that's one of the culprits. Thanks. Any rule against topping off my current liquid with, say, an 18mg liquid to even it out?

Also, after doing some reading, I think I need more PG and less VG next time, for more of a cigarette feel and less of a viscous, fruity taste. Full disclosure I didn't know either of these terms 24 hours ago.