HBO's adaptation of Game of Thrones - Thread 2. There are a lot of nerds.

I think it's 1-4, based on the first three books. 5-6, sorta but not quite based on and wrapping up GRRMs work, and 7-8 doing Benioff and Wise's ideas and turning into complete shit as a result.

Genuine question here, and maybe I've been really misunderstanding the timeline, but I keep seeing this repeated - so I gotta ask, where did the idea come from that GRRM has little to absolutely no input on the last two seasons come from? It's my understanding that he still gave them the general outline and ending for them to fill in the blanks and while I totally agree there's been a sharp drop-off in writing quality once they shifted off books, but I've always understood GRRM to be just as involved in these last two seasons as he always has been. It just seems weird that there's this consensus that Benioff and Wise have been like sneaking behind GRRM's back to finish the show.

― soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), 14. maj 2019 19:52 (forty-seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Season 5 was based on books 4-5, and season 6 was mostly wrapping up conflicts drawn from those books (Jon vs Ramsay, Cersei vs the Tyrells, Daenerys in Meereen). So 7 and 8 are the ones that aren't based on plots from the books, but thought up by the showrunners, based on whatever GRRM have told them.

And yes, as UMS is saying, Euron can't be based on the books.

fiction written in the present day is a commentary on the modern using the backdrop of history! or in this case, fantasy, unless medieval times had actual dragons and talking trees or whatever

I get you - but I’ve always found the thing about “oh her dad was mad so she’ll be as well” deeply daft - books and show - you’re removing agency from a character on the basis of, what, bad blood? Much more interesting to see someone fall because of their own choices.

where did the idea come from that GRRM has little to absolutely no input on the last two seasons come from? It's my understanding that he still gave them the general outline and ending for them to fill in the blanks and while I totally agree there's been a sharp drop-off in writing quality once they shifted off books, but I've always understood GRRM to be just as involved in these last two seasons as he always has been.

Also imposing contemporary caffeine receptacles on a medieval world

Xp

fiction written in the present day is a commentary on the modern using the backdrop of history! or in this case, fantasy, unless medieval times had actual dragons and talking trees or whatever

― mh, Tuesday, May 14, 2019 11:51 AM (thirty-one seconds ago)

of course! but it often works as commentary in the sense that the historical fiction work is fixed in time, and either shows the parallels between the contemporary and the historical, or shows where _we_ in the modern day have options and choices that the historical fixed world characters did not have ... like we can learn from the past and not make the same mistakes (or in some cases, we can try and return to that golden era). Like, the point isn't that we should expect the historical characters to act like members of contemporary society ... like, why doesn't Dany just say, fuck ruling Westeros, I'm going to start a media empire of interconnected topical blogs!

Yeah, the people saying Dany should be a blogger are really misreading the show, I'll give you that.

Also imposing contemporary caffeine receptacles on a medieval world

Lol!

xp - my point is that is an absurd idea, totally alien to the world these characters inhabit. Also alien to that world, is _not_ continuing the legacy of your family to rule if you are a member of the ruling class and you are the designated family member to do so. Like, it was a big weird deal when Aemon said fuck the throne I'm going to be a Maester on the Wall ... it is not what is done.

Like one of the major themes of the show (from my perspective) is the individual's relationship to power, and how power enables and limits and corrupts the individual. And also, this being a medieval era world, there aren't very many avenues to power, ways in which an individual can have power ... unlike in contemporary society, where one can have power as CEO of a blogging empire.

xp yes thank you for mentioning Maester Aemon, that was something I thought of but obviouslu didn’t mention. otm

I know I shouldn't bite, but Daenerys and Viserys grew up in the much less feudal world of the free cities of Essos.

Also, and I know this is nerdy, but tons of other characters have given up on their birthrights, including Jamie when he went to the kings guard instead of staying heir to Casterly Rock, Jon Snow who is basically the real Targaryen heir, and who before that gave up on being King in the North, and Bran who stays a three eyed raven.

Meanwhile for fans of terrible Sophie Turner content...

Meanwhile in Winterfell...#GameofThrones
pic.twitter.com/ioRwL9DfHg

— Samantha Michelle (@sbazzini8) May 14, 2019

It is weird and chilling that they decided not to show Dany's face during the fire bombing. I wondered if it was possible she'd been warg'd (but that is simply too far-fetched). If it was just a direction decision it's a strange but effective one

tons of other characters have given up on their birthrights, including Jamie when he went to the kings guard instead of staying heir to Casterly Rock, Jon Snow who is basically the real Targaryen heir, and who before that gave up on being King in the North, and Bran who stays a three eyed raven.

― Frederik B, Tuesday, May 14, 2019 12:53 PM (ten minutes ago)

Jaime - doesn't want to end up married so that he has to hide from a wife the fact he's fucking his sister; joins the kingsguard so he has most proximity to said sister; does the most appropriate thing befitting someone of his station that still allows him to fuck his sister without hurting someone else
Jon - didn't know shit about his birthright until a few episodes ago?
Bran - obviously a special case

including Jamie when he went to the kings guard instead of staying heir to Casterly Rock, Jon Snow who is basically the real Targaryen heir, and who before that gave up on being King in the North, and Bran who stays a three eyed raven.

okay so ... you have named 3 characters. hardly "tons"

Sam gave up his birthright by being Sam

He was pretty much forced to do so by his asshole dad?

He was forced to take the black or his dad would arrange for him to have “an accident”.

Jon made the mistake of thinking that he could tell people about his parentage without the attending repercussions (he's the rightful heir to the throne, people knowing that is damaging to Dany's claim to the throne). He has to either keep it a secret and renounce his claim or if he's going to tell people he has to stake his claim. he has the stark habit of not being very smart with the wielding of power and information (see ned stark). dany's actions will probably spur him into action in the finale but it's too late for all the burned folk in king's landing

A big shout out to Lena Headey who made $1,000,000 an episode this season for standing at a window drinking a glass of wine. An icon. pic.twitter.com/n44MAQsK0b

— James Potter (@dontforgetjames) May 13, 2019

also robb stark

"I'm going to kill joffrey and the lannisters"
"who will be the king then?"
"don't know, not me, i'll be going home to winterfell"
"..."

once he got to the Wall, it was pretty well established that his circumstances were highly unusual, as the majority of nightswatch were either peasants, bastards, or criminals

with the occasional younger sons of noble families (uncle benjen) ... probably modeled to some extent on the way that in medieval times younger sons would join the church.

when i think about it a bit of a pivotal scene was jon telling dany about his parentage. her being solely concerned with this meaning he was the rightful heir. and silly ol' jon being more concerned about the whole incest thing and not interested in claiming the throne.

this is true but there’s a bit more to it than that for Benjen - why was Ned the only Stark left? Because his dad and brother were burned and Lyanna died - Benjen is hardly the spare son in that scenario.

what was it Roz said upthread about Jon being like the mediocre white man failing upward?

I think Benjen joined the nightswatch prior to the dad/brother/sister death? Pretty sure Ned was older than Benjen?

No, he joined after, he was a child when all that happened. Always assumed it was because he knew about Jon.

ooooh ... well, Ned was next in line to succeed, it wasn't like Benjen had any other obligations

he did end up instrumental in his nephew's ascension to 3 eyed ravendom

No I mean that Benjen was that after everyone else died, there’s no logical reason for him to dutifully saunter off to the wall when they should have married him off to someone?

tbf to Jon, he did organize the forces to destroy the Night King, brought Dany into the battle, etc. Not a complete failure just because he's bad at politics.

the Night King that was destroyed through the teamwork of his disabled brother and his younger sister?

he was fairly decent as commander of nights watch tho ... well, except for the part where he didn't see the conspiracy/assassination coming ...

the Night King that was destroyed through the teamwork of his disabled brother and his younger sister?

None of them would have even been there if he hadn't told everyone about the threat and convinced them to come. I mean, who knows where Bran and Arya would have been if Jon hadn't been crowing about the Night King to everyone who would listen?

I'm not saying he's a total waste of oxygen ... just that he's mediocre as a leader

definitely bad at battle tactics/strategy -- and ppl have already covered the politics/communication stuff

tbf to Jon i think part of his character is people trying to thrust him (sometimes successfully!) into leadership positions he doesn't wish to ascend to, it's kind of a running joke i think. did he even really want to lead the night's watch? i don't recall.

no, dude never wanted to be in charge ... and that's why he isn't totally stupid.

It is weird and chilling that they decided not to show Dany's face during the fire bombing. I wondered if it was possible she'd been warg'd (but that is simply too far-fetched). If it was just a direction decision it's a strange but effective one

Buddy of mine, making up a hack story line in our discord, had this to say:

"Think about it, the children of the forest created the white walkers to destroy humanity, but now they're defending a human from the white walkers? Doesn't make any sense.

What happened was that after the first Long Night when men defeated the white walkers and pushed them back, the children of the forest realized they needed a more powerful weapon to kill humanity, so they kidnapped a human and made the 3ER. The first attempt to kill humanity was King Aerys, the 3ER fucked with his mind and made him start screaming to burn them all over and over again, but it was thwarted by Jaime Lannister. Now Bran is doing it with Dany."

Seems very implausible, and doesn't explain why Bran worked so hard to stop NK unless the children of the forest are also at risk from the white walkers, but, what can you do.

I hope the final shot is Bran staring at the camera with glowing blue eyes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crPp0zizRDI

Jon is the James Comey of GOT: a dumb Boy Scout hung up on bullshit concepts like loyalty.

everyone in the show is being warged by benioff and weiss--it explains everything.

I disagree with this thread, I've been thinking for a while that Jon Snow is the greatest human being ever depicted in fiction.

kinguddanorf!

se@n t. c0llins, the most avid GOT defender I (used to) follow on Twitter, claims to earnestly find Jon a moving and fascinating character