HBO's adaptation of Game of Thrones - Thread 2. There are a lot of nerds.

all of the post-GRRM choices are so uninspired. all this show has left is "you-are-there" action setpieces. what a bummer.

is there any money on whether Arya takes out the new queen

― mh, Monday, May 13, 2019 12:00 AM (twelve hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

It would be lame to have Arya kill Dany so soon after the Night King, and thematically off, as the horrors she saw were the results of vengeance. But they've done dumb things before, so who knows.

xp - idk if she's "considerably worse" - like we see all the soldiers continue to fight, and attack civilians, etc. It isn't just Dany that is being destructive. The Lannisters kept fighting and killing and taking over other parts of the country even after they had safely captured the seat of power. Maybe I am just also thinking of the parts of the books that show all the fighting and pillaging and destruction in the Riverlands and the "ride over country" ... like this is what "humanity" is when given the opportunity. You could argue that Dany sucks in that she is not compelling the people to become their "best selves," which I don't disagree with, but to say that she is worse than who she is replacing? I feel like we're forgetting what they did.

she just razed a city that was surrendering, just on scale alone it's the most bloodthirsty thing that any character has done in this show. her troops were ready to accept the surrender of their opponents but when she just started burning the place willy nilly they took it as a sign that they had free-reign.

i don't think the city was officially surrendering! Like generally when one surrenders, the leader officially surrenders. Considering all the devious shit Cersei has done, I wouldn't have believed that surrender until either she stepped out of that castle with her hands raised, or my troops had entered her castle and verified that she had left the city, therefore surrendering in absentia.

i'm not forgetting the lannister army being as brutal as they were especially in the first couple of seasons, but i think this particular act of massacring a city of a million people kind of takes it up another level.

i think the bells thing was clearly the indication that they were surrendering. Not sure if we're supposed to think Cersei gave the order to do so, but I sense that she did??

i don't think cersei gave the order, but the city was surrendering

Soldiers have been known to surrender without the consent of their king/queen

dany as master tactician making cold but most correct move theories are undercut a bit by D&D saying she basically saw the red keep and decided in that moment to burn everything in a tantrum.

I think the weakness of the episode is obviously the character arc of Daenerys leading up to this moment. the seeds were planted for her to lose her mind but i don't think the descent into madness was as believable as it could have been. it doesn't take away from the episode overall mostly owning, however. i think Emilia Clarke is completely good at playing insane, also she wore a cool "i've gone mad now" war outfit.

The Lannisters rounded up small children that were fathered (or potentially fathered) by Robert and had them executed. Their army sacked and destroyed probably almost 1/2 of the country. Joffrey was a fucking sadist. Cersei subjected her enemies to slow painful torture (i.e. Ellaria Sand).

dany as master tactician making cold but most correct move theories are undercut a bit by D&D saying she basically saw the red keep and decided in that moment to burn everything in a tantrum.

― i got bag sauce in my bag (Sufjan Grafton), Monday, May 13, 2019 10:20 AM (three minutes ago)

ugh, thanks for ruining this show again, showrunner dudes

I thought that was clear in the scene where Jon and Grey Worm are facing the army and they start dropping their swords of their own accord. The bells and gates thing wasn't a special signal for this particular battle, but a general signal of surrender that the army at King's Landing would know. So Cersei's up in the keep going on about how her army will win, and they're out there in the streets giving up. The general mood of the army goes back to the scene where Arya clearly announces who she is and her intentions and they don't stop her and Sandor from entering the city.

I'm sure Cersei had her own guard, and the Red Keep's gates may not have been open, but the city at large had surrendered. Let's not have any illusions: Danerys would have probably torched Cersei even if she walked out of the keep with her hands over her head.

I can't think of any position Danerys has taken that hasn't been directly informed by her own personal experience or a need for an army/resources/acceptance. I think that's the Varys/Tyrion dichotomy: Tyrion saw the good acts she'd done and hoped he could mold her into a person who did those things with just motivations, where Varys concentrated on her motivations and had no faith she'd act justly because her actions were based on expedience and not an ethos.

We kind of figured out who was right

I don't know how to explain to you that "Will I be a good queen or a bad queen?" instantly switching to "I'm actually Super-Hitler, the Hitler who can fly" is not good writing#GamesOfThrones

— MEGATRON (@SJWMEGATRON) May 13, 2019

wasn't Dany's (weak ass) explanation for annihilating king's landing was she had to kill a shitload of people to liberate future generations for good?

fwiw I don't think that what I said was very well set up by the plot over the seasons and her portrayal has been broadly sympathetic, even with the number of moments where she's told (often by Jorah) how she should act and it seems like she grumpily accepts it. Maybe if he made it and was there on the roof when she parked the dragon for a moment, we'd have gotten a happier ending.

Still waiting for a GoT battle scene that doesn't have Jon Snow staring helplessly into space for five minutes.

I don't know how the show is going to justify his inevitable ascent to the throne - has he done anything remotely useful in the past season and a half? couldn't win the Battle of the Bastards without Sansa, couldn't win the Battle of Winterfell without Arya, didn't kill the Night King, didn't kill Cersei, and was completely wrong about Dany. He's the ultimate personification of the mediocre white man failing upwards.

i think the fans did a great job of creating a mad queen narrative around dany through close-reading (or close-watching, whatever) and theorizing. most of that arc was happening behind-the-scenes or in the minds of watchers, not really in-text.

xp this is why i'm holding out a little hope for king gendry lol

Jon Sno'Rourke

i think one main issue is Clarke has portrayed her as someone who has the best intentions and whose fury has largely been aimed at those who generally deserve it, even if one might say "wow maybe that was a bit much, D!" and she has been fairly likable as a protagonist when considering the alternatives we've had opposing her forces (Joffrey, Cersei, etc...) I think some more effective deployed foreshadowing or larger character flaws would have gone a long way, which isn't to take away from what she did the past couple episodes and at other points this season; she's been good at this arc performance-wise, more than her other arcs. it's the writing that failed in the run-up to this.

I don't know how the show is going to justify his inevitable ascent to the throne - has he done anything remotely useful in the past season and a half? couldn't win the Battle of the Bastards without Sansa, couldn't win the Battle of Winterfell without Arya, didn't kill the Night King, didn't kill Cersei, and was completely wrong about Dany. He's the ultimate personification of the mediocre white man failing upwards.

― Roz, Monday, May 13, 2019 1:48 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

he doesn't have to. he's the rightful heir

My initial thoughts, in no particular order:

- I found it quite gripping!
- I wonder who received the raven messages Varys managed to get out before he got scorched.
- Poofs of green going up all over the city among the dragon fire: were these Cersei’s secret stashes of wildfire? How was she planning to use them?
- There have been so many articles asking ‘will the showrunners stick the landing?’ recently I started wondering if it was some kind of hidden reference. Initially I thought it would be the Night King who Stuck the Landing but when he didn’t I guessed it must be Dany.
- I found the Pompeii-like bits quite moving - the snow of ash falling down and the charred corpses clinging to their charred children.

I don't know how the show is going to justify his inevitable ascent to the throne - has he done anything remotely useful in the past season and a half? couldn't win the Battle of the Bastards without Sansa, couldn't win the Battle of Winterfell without Arya, didn't kill the Night King, didn't kill Cersei, and was completely wrong about Dany. He's the ultimate personification of the mediocre white man failing upwards.

― Roz, Monday, May 13, 2019 10:48 AM (four minutes ago

THANK YOU!!! Like, I even find myself asking, why does this fool get to command any army?

Oh, and they key scene for Dany’s ‘mental state’ was when she and Jon snogged, he backed out, and she decided she could never be a ruler who would be loved without Jon by her side, so she decided “Fear, then”.

he doesn't have to. he's the rightful heir

not if Gendry Baratheon has anything to say about it! lol yeah King Gendry would be kind of awesome. also hilarious for Dany - she spent so long dismissing the noble houses of westeros only to find herself, in a brief moment of spite, legitimising the system and possibly restarting the cycle all over again by recognising Gendry's parentage.

honestly been wondering if this just ends with dany executing snow and tyrion for treason, like she just straight up wins

my dark horse in this race for the throne remains Davos.

at this point would anyone rebel against Dany's rule? Even if someone assassinates her, Jon might be the only one who can deal with the dragon.

as a blacksmith, he would be a good person to have in a position of power to help design structures and infrastructure that are fire resistant

And finally: good job there’s another throne in Dragonstone, eh?

moving the capitol of a country is a standard revolutionary/regime change move

plus, dragonstone is completely empty, which means it is very clean and ready for lots of people to move in

nice views too!

wasn't Dany's (weak ass) explanation for annihilating king's landing was she had to kill a shitload of people to liberate future generations for good?

― officer sonny bonds, lytton pd (mayor jingleberries), Monday, May 13, 2019 10:44 AM (thirty-two minutes ago)

yes. that was what made me thinking of the U.S./Allies tactics during WW2

I want them to start next week's episode with Jon and company outside the city watching as the city continues to get dragon-razed

"why isn't she stopping?"
"no clue, she's been at it for two days now"

nice bit of jon snow being a dumbass in this ep was when varys says the "when a targaryen is born the gods flip a coin.." and jon says "we don't go much for riddles where I'm from"

That response got me too, at this point I just assume they're leaning into making Jon look as clueless and hapless as possible.

really gonna miss Varys :(

wrt Jon being a dumbass, lord yes, but this season it's hard not to have a "this whole court is out of order" meltdown wrt to dumbassery with most of the characters this season

Oh, and they key scene for Dany’s ‘mental state’ was when she and Jon snogged, he backed out, and she decided she could never be a ruler who would be loved without Jon by her side, so she decided “Fear, then”.

Implication being that if only Jon had subdued her with his magic cock, all this mess could've been avoided.

Everything is his fault.

the lord of light brought him back to fuck, but he fucked up instead

irl lol

as dany and her dragon torched and ruined the city all I could think was "man they're going to have to clean all that shit up"

episode missed doing a callback to the first season when Arya was running around Kings Landing in hiding

xp. they made short shrift of all the wight corpses up at winterfell so king's landing cleanup should be a doddle

https://theconcourse.deadspin.com/a-better-way-game-of-thrones-could-have-arrived-at-this-1834720538

I like that idea. And, if they still needed someone to be witnessing what Jon did on the ground in the actual episode, Davos would have been perfect for that.

all of the post-GRRM choices are so uninspired. all this show has left is "you-are-there" action setpieces. what a bummer.