I do think that sometimes there's a degree of this but I also think sometimes people really are just assholes and don't care (like the women in the swimsuit story above).
― Benson and the Jets (ENBB), Thursday, 25 April 2019 15:47 (four years ago) link
I definitely underestimate the assholism of people sometimes, and it can lead to me seeming like an apologist for assholes, but I just always want to be sympathetic initially before remembering how much everyone sucks.
― emil.y, Thursday, 25 April 2019 15:53 (four years ago) link
The cruelty of other people always has a purpose. I do apologize it sometimes from older women because they were brainwashed into thinking that their daughters need to attract and be married off in order for everyone to have successfully accomplished most important goals in life. Or else because they never got the chance to not give a shit how they looked.
― Yerac, Thursday, 25 April 2019 16:00 (four years ago) link
xxp - I want to be able to teleport/time travel to be able to yell at these people.
― sarahell, Thursday, 25 April 2019 16:00 (four years ago) link
It's never too late to start!
― Yerac, Thursday, 25 April 2019 16:02 (four years ago) link
xp - ugh. I guess I am lucky in that I never got that from my mother or my grandmother. Instead I got from my mother, "it's very important that you develop skills in order to be self-sufficient, so that you don't have to get married in order to be financially stable." My mother has been more-or-less happily married to my father for 50+ years. So it's not like she is passing on a lesson that she had to learn the hard way. But, I have taken this advice, and somehow combined it with my body image/fatness, and internalized it as "because I am fat (among other personal flaws), and am unlikely to find a suitable partner to marry, it is imperative that I'm able to be self-reliant."
― sarahell, Thursday, 25 April 2019 16:09 (four years ago) link
like if I was thin and cute and not an overbearing bitch, I could easily meet a future partner who can provide at least half of our collective financial support and carry heavy objects, and get food for me when I'm sick, etc.
― sarahell, Thursday, 25 April 2019 16:11 (four years ago) link
My mom stressed the same thing about self reliance and I totally internalized it as well, but I thought it was bc I’m an only child and there is no one what will take care of me. I really bought that 100%.
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Thursday, 25 April 2019 16:21 (four years ago) link
My mom stressed self reliance (probably because she dislikes who she ended up marrying) but then she flips to the opposite all the time. I think a lot of parents just parented according to what they thought they should do/say but didn't actually believe it or had no intention of practicing it once the kids became independent adults. People just say shitty things aloud all the time. People are complicated.
― Yerac, Thursday, 25 April 2019 16:39 (four years ago) link
my mother was always thinking of various female relatives and friends, whom she would hold up as "cautionary tales." ... like her sister, Judy, who has always been single. Judy didn't finish college until she was in her 50s; she worked a series of low-paying jobs in cafes, restaurants, and bookstores, from which she would regularly quit or get fired, generally because she would complain about something that wasn't "fair" or "done properly," and would go back and forth between having to move back in with my grandparents, to being able to afford to rent a small apartment ... the cautionary tale of Aunt Judy wasn't "you need to get married" but "graduate from college and develop useful skills in the labor market," as well as "keep your complaints to yourself." ... Then there is my mom's friend, Cindy -- another cautionary tale -- who is also obese, but unlike my mother, did not have healthy eating habits so she developed type 2 diabetes and struggled with having to eat vegetables and cut down on soda. The cautionary tale of Cindy isn't "don't be fat," but instead, "remember how your mother raised you to eat salad with most meals" and "learn to cook nutritious foods in a way that makes you want to eat them"
― sarahell, Thursday, 25 April 2019 16:57 (four years ago) link
oops, I deleted a sentence about how my mother has been fat/obese since her late 20s (around the time I was born) and I pretty much inherited her metabolism and body type. ...
― sarahell, Thursday, 25 April 2019 17:02 (four years ago) link
from the weight watchas thread:
depression over the ugly ugly clothes I've had to wear as a fat person (there are no fashionable stores for "plus size" dudes - anything you can buy in casual male xl will make you look like a retired cop at church)
part of me sympathizes with this as a plus size person ... but as a woman, I have an instinctive urge to say "waaah poor baby" because women's fashion is so much more fraught and there is so much more baggage, and the reason that things are actually "better" in plus-size women's fashion, is a lot of activism and advocacy and a lot of that has come from women of color, and like, if women of color can do the work to improve the quality and options for plus-size women's fashion ... imagine how much white men could do if they put their privilege to work.
― sarahell, Thursday, 25 April 2019 17:09 (four years ago) link
Really want to post this on the other thread but they’ll lost their shit if I do. I think it’s really important.
http://i63.tinypic.com/ngom8p.jpg
― Benson and the Jets (ENBB), Thursday, 25 April 2019 18:08 (four years ago) link
Hahahahaha omg I’m dying - wrong picture!!
This is what I meant to post:
http://i66.tinypic.com/1hfako.jpg
― Benson and the Jets (ENBB), Thursday, 25 April 2019 18:10 (four years ago) link
holy shit, I didn't scroll and just spent way too much time trying to put the evian dick sucking post in context with the ww thread.
― Yerac, Thursday, 25 April 2019 18:15 (four years ago) link
lol I mean that’s an important tweet for sure but not in reference to that thread
― Benson and the Jets (ENBB), Thursday, 25 April 2019 18:17 (four years ago) link
omg the evian dick sucking!!
― sarahell, Thursday, 25 April 2019 18:23 (four years ago) link
Oh god, I laughed so hard at that.
― emil.y, Thursday, 25 April 2019 19:20 (four years ago) link
from the weight watchas thread:depression over the ugly ugly clothes I've had to wear as a fat person (there are no fashionable stores for "plus size" dudes - anything you can buy in casual male xl will make you look like a retired cop at church)
As someone who has spent the past decade moving from "buying plus size clothes in the women's department" to "buying plus size clothes in the men's department", I can categorically state that the original post is not even remotely true. (And I don't even shop at ~fashionable stores~ - I'm able to find stuff that fits and looks stylish at high street shops like Marks and Sparks and Debenhams.)
― Einstürzende NEU!bauten (Branwell with an N), Friday, 26 April 2019 07:34 (four years ago) link
ha, I did the reverse journey about 5-10 years ago (plus size men's to plus size women's). ... like part of the reason why I started dressing butch at the time was because I "got fat"
― sarahell, Friday, 26 April 2019 16:58 (four years ago) link
not implying anything about anyone other than me ... or raising politics of gender presentation, etc. ... just that as a plus-size person, menswear, with its waist and in-seam sizing was very liberating, compared to ... okay, now you are too fat to buy regular clothes, you have to go to this sad corner next to the maternity section to buy clothes, and sometimes the plus sizes get mixed with the mumswear, and it is an awkward experience when you are not, in fact, pregnant
― sarahell, Friday, 26 April 2019 17:02 (four years ago) link
the semiotics thread i started 10 years ago was inspired by that
― sarahell, Friday, 26 April 2019 17:04 (four years ago) link
I think I’m basically ready now to get married bar a few last minute things - genuinely a bit “oh fuck” now that it’s so near and all. I have a little bouquet charm so I want to source a nice ribbon for that, otherwise weirdly I think (besides the obvious), I am most looking forward to my dad’s speech and I’m going to cry like fifty times.
― gyac, Monday, 6 May 2019 16:21 (four years ago) link
congrats again! do you have a date set? I was unaware of bouquet charms and am now looking them up.
― Yerac, Monday, 6 May 2019 17:45 (four years ago) link
My sincerest felicitations to the bride to be!
For my part I've seen and even talked to that guy at the gym again (named Nick, BTW). I thought I psyched myself up to talk to him again today, so of course he didn't show up. It was the sort of day when I suspect I have a fairy godmother watching over my love life...but she has no idea what she's doing. Oh, well.
― Anne Hedonia (j.lu), Monday, 6 May 2019 22:18 (four years ago) link
I am actually legit fat and no one calls me fat. Like, calling someone fat, or making fat jabs seems like something intended for the moderately chubby.
― homosexual II, Tuesday, 4 June 2019 17:26 (four years ago) link
Real sick of ilx men being sure they're objectively right about things even after they've made clear they don't even understand the thing. Real sick of it.
― emil.y, Saturday, 13 July 2019 13:19 (four years ago) link
This could be about several things, but is there any thread in particular? I’m having something like this irl atm and it is so tedious. And the person tried to tell me they knew more about anti-Irish sentiment than I did (!) they are not Irish at all.
― gyac, Saturday, 13 July 2019 13:55 (four years ago) link
xp I hear you.
― kinder, Saturday, 13 July 2019 13:58 (four years ago) link
I don't really want to be more specific as I know lots of guys read this thread even if they don't post in it, but just feeling glum and like I've been chased out of a thread where I wanted to share excitement about a thing, but instead now I've been patronised and dismissed.
― emil.y, Saturday, 13 July 2019 14:35 (four years ago) link
Np. It’s a really shit feeling.
― gyac, Saturday, 13 July 2019 14:40 (four years ago) link
in real life/otherwise I just add these guys to my theory of men having a dominant inheritance pattern of brain damage.
― Yerac, Saturday, 13 July 2019 14:43 (four years ago) link
emil.y, I have been appreciating your and La Lechera’s posts on a recent thread, because I figured if those two posters liked it, I bet I will too!
― tokyo rosemary, Saturday, 13 July 2019 18:26 (four years ago) link
Thanks, rosemary!
― emil.y, Sunday, 14 July 2019 14:42 (four years ago) link
I was talking about this thing with a friend the other day, and I realize I do this -- I mentally divide guys into two categories: the ones I totally expect to be condescending and overestimate their knowledge/expertise, and the "good ones" that are smarter and more thoughtful than that. When the category one guys do that thing, I shrug, shake my head, roll my eyes -- and think "lol u dumb, you make your gender look bad." ... When one of the "good ones" do it, I sometimes feel like it's a betrayal, and sometimes even makes me sad that everyone, including people I like a lot, are actually kinda trash.
― sarahell, Wednesday, 17 July 2019 18:56 (four years ago) link
On the whole, I enjoyed this article.
https://www.thecut.com/2019/07/if-men-carried-purses-would-they-clean-up-messes.html
― There's more Italy than necessary. (in orbit), Tuesday, 23 July 2019 19:27 (four years ago) link
100x it me -- "as if every trip [outdoors] were a trek on the appalachian trail"
i've always been proud of myself for being so prepared but it is a chore. i wonder if i thought i could rely on anyone else to have the things if i would carry less stuff around. it has never occurred to me tbh.
it was actually worse when i was younger. my cargo was reduced substantially with the invention of the ipod so i will always be thankful for that.
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Tuesday, 23 July 2019 19:37 (four years ago) link
Observation 1: Not taking anything with you is also an economic power statement--that you can buy (or someone will give you?!) anything you unexpectedly (or expectedly!) need. I took everything including the kitchen sink with me every day when I had $0. It feels a little bit amazing now to travel a little lighter, either for a day or a week, across town or around the world, and say that I have the basics and I'll figure out the rest as it comes.
Observation 2: Conversely, I also find it satisfying to have JUST THE RIGHT THING for a challenge or crisis! And that's a pleasure of feeling capable, prepared, adult, powerful in a different way.
Por que no los dos, obviously. Still enjoyed the article.
― There's more Italy than necessary. (in orbit), Tuesday, 23 July 2019 19:41 (four years ago) link
Freedom from having to carry stuff is power. super-otm
i bought a fanny pack and wore it for the first time this past weekend. it was pretty awesome but took a little getting used to, like maybe an hour. having my hands free and no cargo on my back felt great even if my bag kept flopping around
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Tuesday, 23 July 2019 19:41 (four years ago) link
i am never carrying a handbag ever againi used to! my vintage bag collection is quite enviable tbh but i will never carry those bags irl again. need hands!!
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Tuesday, 23 July 2019 19:43 (four years ago) link
Wow! Little did I know I was opening such a deliciously passionate jar of pickles! I love it.
Did you wonder what to do with your hands?
― There's more Italy than necessary. (in orbit), Tuesday, 23 July 2019 19:44 (four years ago) link
observation 1 and 2 otm.
― Yerac, Tuesday, 23 July 2019 19:45 (four years ago) link
no i do not. i use them to gesticulate, swing, fend off attackers, hold other stuff :)
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Tuesday, 23 July 2019 19:46 (four years ago) link
I have been carrying a messenger style bag since I was 12 (because I need my hands free!) and recently started having hip pain on that side because of it. I appreciate how this was brought up in the article.
― Yerac, Tuesday, 23 July 2019 19:47 (four years ago) link
I always carry a big bag of stuff but I live in a mess and am a mess generally, so I don't think that article works really. I mostly carry books, notebooks, my wallet, phone, and random bits of crap I've accumulated, not paper towels.
(As an aside, I say "bag" because in British English a purse means something more like a coin purse - I think what you call a purse is more like a handbag and I don't use those either, I use satchel-type bags.)
― emil.y, Tuesday, 23 July 2019 19:54 (four years ago) link
I do really like this observation, I think it holds more true than most of the article!
― emil.y, Tuesday, 23 July 2019 19:56 (four years ago) link
Thank you! That observation is brought to you by the self-imposed panic I would regularly feel at packing for a trip because I had to take everything I might possibly need because I had no money!
― There's more Italy than necessary. (in orbit), Tuesday, 23 July 2019 20:01 (four years ago) link
oh yeah agree -- i have felt that my whole adult life. it's part of why i resisted familiarizing myself with the marie kondo lifestyle -- i believed that i must keep/carry all useful things because otherwise i would have to buy them again. guided by scarcity :-/
i still keep things that are meaningful but if they're not, i say thank you, goodbye. esp to things that are ugly, like the pinstriped blazer i was saving for some mystery time i would need a blazer and i realized that time would never come. and if it does, there is a thrift store somewhere nearby full of blazers for me. "self-imposed panic" otm. i guess i probably still feel it but i am more aware that it's self imposed.
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Tuesday, 23 July 2019 20:10 (four years ago) link
I carried one of these as a day bag for a couple of years because I could bungee strap it to the back of my scooter but it's rubbish for walking around cos it takes up a whole hand.
https://www.kleintools.com/sites/all/product_assets/resized/250x250/klein/5102-16.jpg
Lately I've switched to backpacks but I have to admit they're hard to get in and out. You know what's really easy to get into? A pocket.
― There's more Italy than necessary. (in orbit), Tuesday, 23 July 2019 20:13 (four years ago) link