no boys allowed in the room!!!!

I'm a pretty consistently happy person but family can drive anyone to the opposite extreme. There is never anything rational about the behaviours involved.

A lot of them probably do think that they're fat and that you (the general 'you' of whoever happens to be in the room at the time) are not. ... complaining about my size around women who are several sizes larger than me, because in my head they look good and I don't, and that's the thing.

I used to be in a band w/ 2 other women, and one of them, the singer, would do this. ... She was the thinnest of the 3 of us. ... Now she is ... very, very, thin ... and she is/was open about having body dysmorphia. Anyway, what you said, emil.y, makes this weird disjunction make sense to me. ... because this woman would complain about being fat, say things that equate fat with being unattractive, in front of/to me -- a plus-sized person -- and not think she was being remotely insulting or awkward.

I do think that sometimes there's a degree of this but I also think sometimes people really are just assholes and don't care (like the women in the swimsuit story above).

I definitely underestimate the assholism of people sometimes, and it can lead to me seeming like an apologist for assholes, but I just always want to be sympathetic initially before remembering how much everyone sucks.

The cruelty of other people always has a purpose. I do apologize it sometimes from older women because they were brainwashed into thinking that their daughters need to attract and be married off in order for everyone to have successfully accomplished most important goals in life. Or else because they never got the chance to not give a shit how they looked.

xxp - I want to be able to teleport/time travel to be able to yell at these people.

It's never too late to start!

xp - ugh. I guess I am lucky in that I never got that from my mother or my grandmother. Instead I got from my mother, "it's very important that you develop skills in order to be self-sufficient, so that you don't have to get married in order to be financially stable." My mother has been more-or-less happily married to my father for 50+ years. So it's not like she is passing on a lesson that she had to learn the hard way. But, I have taken this advice, and somehow combined it with my body image/fatness, and internalized it as "because I am fat (among other personal flaws), and am unlikely to find a suitable partner to marry, it is imperative that I'm able to be self-reliant."

like if I was thin and cute and not an overbearing bitch, I could easily meet a future partner who can provide at least half of our collective financial support and carry heavy objects, and get food for me when I'm sick, etc.

My mom stressed the same thing about self reliance and I totally internalized it as well, but I thought it was bc I’m an only child and there is no one what will take care of me. I really bought that 100%.

My mom stressed self reliance (probably because she dislikes who she ended up marrying) but then she flips to the opposite all the time. I think a lot of parents just parented according to what they thought they should do/say but didn't actually believe it or had no intention of practicing it once the kids became independent adults. People just say shitty things aloud all the time. People are complicated.

my mother was always thinking of various female relatives and friends, whom she would hold up as "cautionary tales." ... like her sister, Judy, who has always been single. Judy didn't finish college until she was in her 50s; she worked a series of low-paying jobs in cafes, restaurants, and bookstores, from which she would regularly quit or get fired, generally because she would complain about something that wasn't "fair" or "done properly," and would go back and forth between having to move back in with my grandparents, to being able to afford to rent a small apartment ... the cautionary tale of Aunt Judy wasn't "you need to get married" but "graduate from college and develop useful skills in the labor market," as well as "keep your complaints to yourself." ... Then there is my mom's friend, Cindy -- another cautionary tale -- who is also obese, but unlike my mother, did not have healthy eating habits so she developed type 2 diabetes and struggled with having to eat vegetables and cut down on soda. The cautionary tale of Cindy isn't "don't be fat," but instead, "remember how your mother raised you to eat salad with most meals" and "learn to cook nutritious foods in a way that makes you want to eat them"

oops, I deleted a sentence about how my mother has been fat/obese since her late 20s (around the time I was born) and I pretty much inherited her metabolism and body type. ...

from the weight watchas thread:

depression over the ugly ugly clothes I've had to wear as a fat person (there are no fashionable stores for "plus size" dudes - anything you can buy in casual male xl will make you look like a retired cop at church)

part of me sympathizes with this as a plus size person ... but as a woman, I have an instinctive urge to say "waaah poor baby" because women's fashion is so much more fraught and there is so much more baggage, and the reason that things are actually "better" in plus-size women's fashion, is a lot of activism and advocacy and a lot of that has come from women of color, and like, if women of color can do the work to improve the quality and options for plus-size women's fashion ... imagine how much white men could do if they put their privilege to work.

Really want to post this on the other thread but they’ll lost their shit if I do. I think it’s really important.

http://i63.tinypic.com/ngom8p.jpg

Hahahahaha omg I’m dying - wrong picture!!

This is what I meant to post:

http://i66.tinypic.com/1hfako.jpg

holy shit, I didn't scroll and just spent way too much time trying to put the evian dick sucking post in context with the ww thread.

lol I mean that’s an important tweet for sure but not in reference to that thread

omg the evian dick sucking!!

Oh god, I laughed so hard at that.

from the weight watchas thread:

depression over the ugly ugly clothes I've had to wear as a fat person (there are no fashionable stores for "plus size" dudes - anything you can buy in casual male xl will make you look like a retired cop at church)

As someone who has spent the past decade moving from "buying plus size clothes in the women's department" to "buying plus size clothes in the men's department", I can categorically state that the original post is not even remotely true. (And I don't even shop at ~fashionable stores~ - I'm able to find stuff that fits and looks stylish at high street shops like Marks and Sparks and Debenhams.)

ha, I did the reverse journey about 5-10 years ago (plus size men's to plus size women's). ... like part of the reason why I started dressing butch at the time was because I "got fat"

not implying anything about anyone other than me ... or raising politics of gender presentation, etc. ... just that as a plus-size person, menswear, with its waist and in-seam sizing was very liberating, compared to ... okay, now you are too fat to buy regular clothes, you have to go to this sad corner next to the maternity section to buy clothes, and sometimes the plus sizes get mixed with the mumswear, and it is an awkward experience when you are not, in fact, pregnant

the semiotics thread i started 10 years ago was inspired by that

I think I’m basically ready now to get married bar a few last minute things - genuinely a bit “oh fuck” now that it’s so near and all.

I have a little bouquet charm so I want to source a nice ribbon for that, otherwise weirdly I think (besides the obvious), I am most looking forward to my dad’s speech and I’m going to cry like fifty times.

congrats again! do you have a date set? I was unaware of bouquet charms and am now looking them up.

My sincerest felicitations to the bride to be!

For my part I've seen and even talked to that guy at the gym again (named Nick, BTW). I thought I psyched myself up to talk to him again today, so of course he didn't show up. It was the sort of day when I suspect I have a fairy godmother watching over my love life...but she has no idea what she's doing. Oh, well.

I am actually legit fat and no one calls me fat. Like, calling someone fat, or making fat jabs seems like something intended for the moderately chubby.

Real sick of ilx men being sure they're objectively right about things even after they've made clear they don't even understand the thing. Real sick of it.

This could be about several things, but is there any thread in particular?

I’m having something like this irl atm and it is so tedious. And the person tried to tell me they knew more about anti-Irish sentiment than I did (!) they are not Irish at all.

xp I hear you.

I don't really want to be more specific as I know lots of guys read this thread even if they don't post in it, but just feeling glum and like I've been chased out of a thread where I wanted to share excitement about a thing, but instead now I've been patronised and dismissed.

Np. It’s a really shit feeling.

in real life/otherwise I just add these guys to my theory of men having a dominant inheritance pattern of brain damage.

emil.y, I have been appreciating your and La Lechera’s posts on a recent thread, because I figured if those two posters liked it, I bet I will too!

Thanks, rosemary!

I was talking about this thing with a friend the other day, and I realize I do this -- I mentally divide guys into two categories: the ones I totally expect to be condescending and overestimate their knowledge/expertise, and the "good ones" that are smarter and more thoughtful than that. When the category one guys do that thing, I shrug, shake my head, roll my eyes -- and think "lol u dumb, you make your gender look bad." ... When one of the "good ones" do it, I sometimes feel like it's a betrayal, and sometimes even makes me sad that everyone, including people I like a lot, are actually kinda trash.

On the whole, I enjoyed this article.

https://www.thecut.com/2019/07/if-men-carried-purses-would-they-clean-up-messes.html

100x it me -- "as if every trip [outdoors] were a trek on the appalachian trail"

i've always been proud of myself for being so prepared but it is a chore. i wonder if i thought i could rely on anyone else to have the things if i would carry less stuff around. it has never occurred to me tbh.

it was actually worse when i was younger. my cargo was reduced substantially with the invention of the ipod so i will always be thankful for that.

Observation 1: Not taking anything with you is also an economic power statement--that you can buy (or someone will give you?!) anything you unexpectedly (or expectedly!) need. I took everything including the kitchen sink with me every day when I had $0. It feels a little bit amazing now to travel a little lighter, either for a day or a week, across town or around the world, and say that I have the basics and I'll figure out the rest as it comes.

Observation 2: Conversely, I also find it satisfying to have JUST THE RIGHT THING for a challenge or crisis! And that's a pleasure of feeling capable, prepared, adult, powerful in a different way.

Por que no los dos, obviously. Still enjoyed the article.

Freedom from having to carry stuff is power.
super-otm

i bought a fanny pack and wore it for the first time this past weekend. it was pretty awesome but took a little getting used to, like maybe an hour. having my hands free and no cargo on my back felt great even if my bag kept flopping around

i am never carrying a handbag ever again
i used to! my vintage bag collection is quite enviable tbh but i will never carry those bags irl again. need hands!!

Wow! Little did I know I was opening such a deliciously passionate jar of pickles! I love it.

Did you wonder what to do with your hands?

observation 1 and 2 otm.

no i do not. i use them to gesticulate, swing, fend off attackers, hold other stuff :)

I have been carrying a messenger style bag since I was 12 (because I need my hands free!) and recently started having hip pain on that side because of it. I appreciate how this was brought up in the article.

I always carry a big bag of stuff but I live in a mess and am a mess generally, so I don't think that article works really. I mostly carry books, notebooks, my wallet, phone, and random bits of crap I've accumulated, not paper towels.

(As an aside, I say "bag" because in British English a purse means something more like a coin purse - I think what you call a purse is more like a handbag and I don't use those either, I use satchel-type bags.)

Observation 1: Not taking anything with you is also an economic power statement--that you can buy (or someone will give you?!) anything you unexpectedly (or expectedly!) need. I took everything including the kitchen sink with me every day when I had $0. It feels a little bit amazing now to travel a little lighter, either for a day or a week, across town or around the world, and say that I have the basics and I'll figure out the rest as it comes.

I do really like this observation, I think it holds more true than most of the article!

Thank you! That observation is brought to you by the self-imposed panic I would regularly feel at packing for a trip because I had to take everything I might possibly need because I had no money!