Impeach Trump Y/N

"the more you say he's unfit to lead, the more i wanna vote for him."

“Everyone says he’s dumb and unfit to lead - the same things they say about me and my friends! That’s why I’m voting trump”

what is this fucking fear of backfiring or political misstep shit

like it or not, impeachment is a deeply, intensely political process and only minimally and peripherally a vehicle for delivering 'justice'. it was designed that way. it cannot be any other way. and if you examine your feelings, I think you'll find your vehemence is almost certainly born of your intensely felt political beliefs and desires, not some abstract desire for truth and calm reasoning about the functioning of the executive branch.

what's weird to me is that anti-impeachment Dems seem to be unafraid of the more likely 'backfiring' scenario: Trump gets reelected in 2020 at which point impeaching him would be basically impossible.

impeachment is a deeply, intensely political process

this seems a perfectly valid reason to pursue it

I mean it's *all* a deeply, intensely political processs, what is the advantage to pretending otherwise when your opponent is going there whether you like it or not

what's weird to me is that anti-impeachment Dems seem to be unafraid of the more likely 'backfiring' scenario: Trump gets reelected in 2020 at which point impeaching him would be basically impossible.

heh, yeah, reminds me of that lovely time when a lot of people (including me, for a while) were hoping trump would win the 2016 GOP nomination because he would be so much easier to defeat in the election than establishment faves jeb! or the moral beacon ted cruz

Even if they dont move immediately into impeachment, they need to get way more aggressive ASAP. Their oversight is being challenged at every step and they are doing little to hit back.

yeah putting the president on trial is not going to *gain* him any votes, his base will be sufficiently demagogued into turning out no matter what congress does

i think Trump is really cornered and isolated this time for certain

this seems a perfectly valid reason to pursue it

not quite. it is perfectly valid reason to analyze the likely political consequences, and if your analysis is on balance neutral-to-favorable, that is when you pursue it. politics sometimes honors noble failures, but it punishes them just the same.

well of course I don't mean politics for the sake of politics. I mean impeachment has political advantages above and apart from "justice"

how is it not a good political move to get every single Republican Congressman on the record saying "I support this traitorous criminal idiot. I think he rocks, actually."

it is a good political move

Democratic politicians like to imagine there's a significant portion of the electorate that's turned off by any action not done in the spirit of bipartisan hand holding

Trump's behaviour just seems to be getting even worse daily despite theissue of this being brought up and presumably being prevalent at least as a pursuable possibility.
I'm hearing that there is inevitably going to be a period of further investigation since taht's what hearings would amount to so starting the process seems to be necessary.

But on the other hand some possibility of him being reelected would only mean he would feel absolutely justified in any further action he took. Just hoping also that any further exposure of his crimes might make that reelection unlikely.
& at what point doe she cease to be a useful asset because he's shown himself up so badly. Would think that even Putin might pull the plug once he'd outlived usefullness. So he'd be alone trying to get reelected and only have a dimished GOP supporting him.

on the record saying "I support this traitorous criminal idiot. I think he rocks, actually."

Good luck with that. What they will say irl is how "troubled" they were, but that the evidence blah blah blah. Do you honestly believe these people got where they are not knowing how to spin their vote to match the leanings of their constituency?

Voting to impeach and to convict is GREAT politics for winning your vote, because you already are sold on Trump being a "traitorous criminal idiot". But in order for the politics to align with you, a majority of voters need to be sold on that conviction. If they aren't, then going gung-ho, all-in for impeachment is playing with fire, politically. Like I said, a noble failure still fails and will be punished, not rewarded, leaving you worse off, not better.

HRC has spoken! "caution"

and she's an expert

this is a politics thread morbs

Morbs, we all know caution is not in your emotional vocabulary.

Morbs you made it, like, three days

that was a driveby

It was a voluntary, impromptu, and self-imposed restriction, so there was never a reason to think it would last any longer than the reaction that prompted it.

join me in the Tootsie thread

I am boycotting all the Dabney Coleman theads

a strange game

at some point enough is enough

let's all talk about Santino Fontana in here now that Morbs is gone

a strange game

― difficult listening hour, Wednesday, April 24, 2019 12:02 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lmao

Investigative hearings should proceed, so that there is a constant dribble of damning news on Trump. I'd prefer that it focus on the violations of the emoluments clause, as I think corruption will hit much harder with the electorate than

I would much rather see the Democratic caucus pass sweeping Medicare for all and climate legislation, and have this be the central theme of the remainder of this Congress. Give the Democratic presidential and Senate candidates something to run on.

^ corruption will hit much harder with the electorate than the clear obstruction of justice in the Russia investigation.

are we discussing impeachment in the Tootsie thread or

So its back again?

I don't understand how this is supposed to go anywhere

it is a moral and legal imperative

and you know, I wd've impeached every fucking president ive lived through

I can see the rationale if the purpose is gumming up the works, but otherwise I don't get where this is supposed to end up

and if there was any seriousness to impeachment why not just do it on emoluments instead

too complex to sell to the moronic public

as this may be

it's to force a drumbeat of bad news about trump for months in the run-up to the election

it's to force republicans to defend him and shrink their base to only die-hard trumpers in the run-up to the election

it's to actually discover evidence of criminal activity and hold criminals to account

it's to finish mueller's job

p sure there are some other good reasons too

and you know, I wd've impeached every fucking president ive lived through

as well you should have because they are all war criminals

You know who wouldn't handwring and have internal debates for months and months over whether to impeach? Republicans. And yet somehow "the American public" doesn't hold their "partisan witch hunts" against them.

What are its chances in the senate?

Why this over emoluments?

"they're going after him for the exact same thing Hillary did"

I don't get where this is supposed to end up

the president of the united states is a criminal who leverages his office to enrich himself and go after his political enemies. he effectively got away with this in the 2016 election and is now doing it again, in plain view, even admitting to it on live TV. forget the political calculations for a minute - you impeach because it's objectively the right thing to do.

very fine reasons on both sides

you impeach because it's objectively the right thing to do.

Will he be removed from office? How likely, scale of 1-10

Will Clinton be removed from office? Prob not so hey let's just forget the whole thing

Well if he's not going to be removed from office then we have to ask what the purpose is? (if its to gum up the works I'm fine with that, but otherwise what is the actual goal here?).

And also if the goal really is to remove him from office, is this Ukraine thing the most reliable thing to get him on?

probably about a 2? again, the idea isn't so much removing him from an office (because we live with a stupidly broken political system) as it is exposing all his crimes, keeping his hands tied, and forcing every elected official to either vote for removal or endorse the corruption

it's to emphasize HE'S A CROOK for the next year, wtf is so difficult?

anvil - succeeding in removing him from office via the actual mechanism of impeachment is very unlikely - and so far down the list of reasons to impeach i didn't bother mentioning

do you think the other reasons aren't good reasons?

If he's impeached, it fails, his base is energized further and he gets re-elected - this seems a reasonably likely scenario? Would want at least some expectation of success before heading down this road - so seesms reasonable to ask "will this actually work?"